Phrase-banned in the face

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Kibiyama · #1 Post by **Kibiyama** » August 21st, 2006, 5:19 pm

So, "nigger" being on phraseban is totally lame. I mean, I can barely say 4 sentences without including the word "nigger".

Coincidentally, can someone unban me...and also my bot (NVP-B0t)?

Elle · #2 Post by **Elle** » August 21st, 2006, 6:17 pm

That'll teach you for using naughty words.

#3 Post by **Tehw00tz** » August 21st, 2006, 6:38 pm

If you ask me(and very few people do)the EotA bot should have no phrase bans of that nature, there's too many things to be pissed off at already in the world, ignore it and get on with your life.

jamn455 · #4 Post by **jamn455** » August 21st, 2006, 7:53 pm

I dont know if its just me, but I hate when people use racist terms even in a video game. It shows me that the person is a poor person and really shouldn't be allowed into a civilized place if he/she is going to say things like that.

CryptLord1234 · #5 Post by **CryptLord1234** » August 21st, 2006, 7:55 pm

Swears in a video game are, for the most part, considered ok...But racist terms? If you can't "say 4 sentences without including the word 'nigger' ." Then you have some work to do...

Kibiyama · #6 Post by **Kibiyama** » August 21st, 2006, 8:16 pm

I don't use it because it's a racist term, I use it because people have such extreme reactions to it. It's entertaining to me that a word that most people on a video game like warcraft have no real life connection to can stir such intense emotion. I frequently debate religion with people for similar reasons. I don't aim to sincerely offend anybody, although I'm sure some people think they are offended.

mianmian · #7 Post by **mianmian** » August 21st, 2006, 8:49 pm

warcraft have no real life connection to

How can you know that? Thats a extremly ignorant comment, but from what you've said so far, not surprising.

Personally, anyone who uses it makes themselves out to be a retard :p but people, in my expirience, are as a rule stupid :p

On a side note, I support it being banned, dosent hurt anyone :p

Kibiyama · #8 Post by **Kibiyama** » August 21st, 2006, 9:29 pm

If you notice, Mian, I used the qualifier "most". Video games are primarily played by white males ages 18-30.

Also, you are correct that people are stupid. Some day we'll make our own death, and it will be over two things that we, ourselves, made up: money, and religion. And then the word "nigger" will seem pretty insignificant.

Hammel · #9 Post by **Hammel** » August 22nd, 2006, 8:16 am

A person has been completely banned from out old forum, wc3modforge.com , for offending people, antisemitism and racistic BS, so I would be careful.

Although I have to background to that word, I would feel offended if someone used it regularly and after some time I would ban him myself.

-Ham

#10 Post by **Tehw00tz** » August 22nd, 2006, 2:56 pm

Poor, poor, Disco...And I've changed my mind on this debate-thingey, Kibi is wrong for the almost completely wrong reasons, and everyone else is right for almost the completely right reasons.

1. Azeroth(US East)-The United States allows free speech as of the First Amendment/Bill of Rights. Kicking someone out of a place for using their First Amedical powers is almost against what this country was founded for, I'm not saying it was founded for racism, and hatred. I'm saying that we have freedom of speech and we should be allowed to use it.

2.Using the word 'nigger' is inapproriate(Unless your black, so i've been told) and it really reflects a black steroetype, and I could understand why it's phrasebanned, making people of that race feel uncomftable/offended. And who would want to hang around a group of people that used racist terms for 'shock value'.Against my first arguement, you can kick someone out of a place, say an exclusive clan which you are a cheiftain/shaman of, you have the freedom of choice, if you don't want people who use racist terms for fun around, that is totally understandable.

Arguement number two wins.
Just apologize for using a racist term and maybe they will let you back into the channel.

mianmian · #11 Post by **mianmian** » August 22nd, 2006, 6:04 pm

Azeroth(US East)-The United States allows free speech as of the First Amendment/Bill of Rights. Kicking someone out of a place for using their First Amedical powers is almost against what this country was founded for, I'm not saying it was founded for racism, and hatred. I'm saying that we have freedom of speech and we should be allowed to use it.

Were not all American :p

And, IMO, using the 1st ammendement to validate your racism is total bullshit, and your scum, IMO, if you do so.

The second argument is much better

Kibiyama · #12 Post by **Kibiyama** » August 22nd, 2006, 6:37 pm

Racism and linguistics are two different things. If it's that big of a deal, I won't say it anymore, but I hope you understand that I'm not a racist. My best friend until he moved to South Carolina in 5th grade was black, and I frequently hang out with my sister's friend who happens to be black, who is honestly like a brother to me at this point.

I'm sad to see more importance put on words than actions, but if EotA must be a 100% politically correct channel, so be it.

In time, I hope we will all realize how ridiculous we've all been.

[EDIT] Misspelled "frequently", way to go, me.

#13 Post by **Sparda963** » August 22nd, 2006, 7:07 pm

It isnt about being politicaly correct, its about not pissing people off who might just be passing through. If there is some one just hanging out in the channel and you come in spouting that kinda stuff, they prolly wont take to well to it, and it refelcts badly on the guild.

Kibiyama · #14 Post by **Kibiyama** » August 22nd, 2006, 7:42 pm

I agree that it reflects poorly on our clan.

But, man, people piss me off. Language is an invention of man, it's meant to communicate ideas, yet only 5% of what people get from what you say is actually the words you use. So what good is it?

And not only that, it seems like words control us instead of the other way around. In some contexts, the word nigger is racist, other times it's a term of affection/respect. In my experience, in the context of the internet, it's usually benign. And yet, there is all this hubbub here as if I was using it in a racist manner... It has nothing to do with any idea that I'm trying to communicate, it's just that a particular word has a particular meaning in a particular context.

What was the context in which I was banned? "Hey, is nigger still on the phraseban?"

[EDIT]
And yeah, everything in the world is completely ass-backwards, and it pisses me off. It seems like nobody can do anything. All I can do is hope that when we finally kill ourselves off, which seems inevitable, we do it in a way that doesn't kill all life on the planet, so they have a chance to succeed where we failed.

mianmian · #15 Post by **mianmian** » August 22nd, 2006, 8:11 pm

I never really though of you as racist Kibi, just that you have a dismal (IMO) choice at words, but I understand where your comming from, I know lots of people like that

but who dont use racist language, but thats Canada, I don't think I've ever heard someone say racist things in my hearing ever

But ya, glad your unbanned

/feud resume

PS: I really doubt well leave much/if any of the planet left :p

Hammel · #16 Post by **Hammel** » August 23rd, 2006, 7:55 am

Kibi, sometimes people cannot tell the difference whether you say words for the "shock value", for irony or whether you mean them... before I make mistakes, I usually take many others serious (unless there are some smileys), that means "Kibi says nigger, Kibi is a racist"... maybe not in the context you used it, but in general I dislike such people.

Wait, what did I want to say... well, watch out for your words because others might think you are serious about it, even if you aren't.

-Ham

#17 Post by **DarnYak** » August 23rd, 2006, 1:55 pm

I'll wade into this since I was the one who banned it. And I fully intend for it to remain banned as long as it remains within my power.

I use it because people have such extreme reactions to it. It's entertaining to me that a word that most people on a video game like warcraft have no real life connection to can stir such intense emotion. I frequently debate religion with people for similar reasons. I don't aim to sincerely offend anybody, although I'm sure some people think they are offended.

You want extreme reactions but not to offend people? I'm not sure that even makes sense.

And this is the core reason it was and will forever remain phrasebanned - dealing with racist arguements in channel are not something i feel like doing, and you're not welcome to sit around trolling for them. The same goes for religious arguements but i can't just phraseban jesus. Neither arguement will ever go anywhere and I dont feel like having people intentionaly start them and create tons of spam for no reason.

And, btw, you got your reaction, it just is one you dont like.

1. Azeroth(US East)-The United States allows free speech as of the First Amendment/Bill of Rights. Kicking someone out of a place for using their First Amedical powers is almost against what this country was founded for, I'm not saying it was founded for racism, and hatred. I'm saying that we have freedom of speech and we should be allowed to use it.

Freedom of speech is a great thing, but its strongly misinterpreted to mean "say whatever i want, wherever I want". You can't take it so far to disturbing the rights of other people, ie shouting profanities at someones house in the middle of the night. Nor can you force anyone to listen to you.

And, most importantly, it doesn't mean people can't react to what you say. The reaction's obviosly vary based on what rights you have (ie, if your in someone's house they can kick you out, but you can't just kick someone you dont know out of a store unless you're the manager).

Kibi or whoever is allowed to believe/say whatever they want, but I have no desire to deal with the result. And in this case I don't even want to be a passive observer

Just apologize for using a racist term and maybe they will let you back into the channel.

He doesn't even need to apologize, he just needs to stop saying it. He was unbaned at least twice byme only to immeidatly say nigger again and get rebanned. If people want to ban themselves i'm not going to stop them.

I'm sad to see more importance put on words than actions, but if EotA must be a 100% politically correct channel, so be it.

Using the word nigger like you do consitutes as derogatory to most people, which is an action. And despite you argueing that it can be used as a word of respect, I'd bet if i went through logs and replace it with some positive word that the sentance would make no sense, so it is being used in an unquestionably derogatory way. There's your action. You'll say "but that was not my intent", which is irrelevant.

And, btw politicaly correct would be banning the word of black and requiring it be Africian American (or Africian Descenant or something, how the hell is PC work in like canada? Africian Canadian?)

It has nothing to do with any idea that I'm trying to communicate, it's just that a particular word has a particular meaning in a particular context.

1) Words represent ideas, so including them includes that idea as well

2) "Language is an invention of man, it's meant to communicate ideas". If you're tryign to communicate, it is the responsibility of you as the sender to make sure the receiver will understand. The reciever is the important one here, not the sender (you), because the sender already knows what it wants to say. In this case, (you claim) the word nigger to you has a completely different meaning then it does to most people, in which case you're communicating the wrong thing. Continue like this and you should expect more of this in the future.

To conclude, you've argued:
1) You do it for the actions
2) You are amused by the reactions
3) The reactions are inappropriate

1 and 3 seem contradictory to me.

DarnYak

CryptLord1234 · #18 Post by **CryptLord1234** » August 23rd, 2006, 2:09 pm

Tehw00tz wrote:1. Azeroth(US East)-The United States allows free speech as of the First Amendment/Bill of Rights. Kicking someone out of a place for using their First Amedical powers is almost against what this country was founded for, I'm not saying it was founded for racism, and hatred. I'm saying that we have freedom of speech and we should be allowed to use it.

I'll quote a social studies teacher here... "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose." In other words, you can say what you want UNTIL it hurts another. It's called slander. (Or libel, depending on if you consider wc3 chatting to be 'writing.')

#19 Post by **Tehw00tz** » August 23rd, 2006, 2:21 pm

Youre only quoting my first starement, my second statement said everything at which you guys are telling me, I even said my second statement was right.

2.Using the word 'nigger' is inapproriate(Unless your black, so i've been told) and it really reflects a black steroetype, and I could understand why it's phrasebanned, making people of that race feel uncomftable/offended. And who would want to hang around a group of people that used racist terms for 'shock value'.Against my first arguement, you can kick someone out of a place, say an exclusive clan which you are a cheiftain/shaman of, you have the freedom of choice, if you don't want people who use racist terms for fun around, that is totally understandable.

mianmian · #20 Post by **mianmian** » August 23rd, 2006, 4:02 pm

Thanks for pointing that out w00tz!

Seriously, we know, were just pointing out that you were a total fuckign dumbass (IMO) to even write your 1st part.

I did mention your 2nd part, its just not quote worthy.

And Crypt, thats a cool quote :p

jamn455 · #21 Post by **jamn455** » August 23rd, 2006, 4:06 pm

The way that I take it is that whenever you say the "N" word it doesnt matter if only one person in the channel every 50 times hears it and feels bad about it, one person can mess up the popularity of a map by spreading around how Clan EotA is racist(hopefully its not while im not on). So try to clean up your language or only use it in game or out of the channel if you can, if not try to restrain from saying it in my opinion.

#22 Post by **Tehw00tz** » August 23rd, 2006, 6:05 pm

mianmian wrote:Thanks for pointing that out w00tz!

Seriously, we know, were just pointing out that you were a total fuckign dumbass (IMO) to even write your 1st part.

I did mention your 2nd part, its just not quote worthy.

First of all, I was stating two arguements and why they were justified by their own reasons.(Although the reasons weren't right morally.)

Second of all, who said I was talking to you? I was pointing that fact out to everyone who were quoting only my first arguement and not even acknowledging my second arguement.

Third of all, atleast I can spell 'fucking'.

Hammel · #23 Post by **Hammel** » August 25th, 2006, 8:42 am

I think Yak said everything what's needed to be said... why can't you leave it that way? We don't need Kibi or DotA or inactive people to destroy our clan, it is just people argueing forever on useless topics, making noone happy, and in the end people don't come anymore because they are tired of the discussions. Even if you dislike each other: just keep quiet, or tell the other one in a whisper/pm, and leave it...

That is why I vote for a close.

Elle · #24 Post by **Elle** » August 25th, 2006, 8:51 am

Yak's right.. for once.

AedharinSadai · #25 Post by **AedharinSadai** » August 26th, 2006, 3:54 am

Maybe you should go to Northrend Channel DEU-1 and stay there for an hour, than you will know why there should be phrase bans.