Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

Trying to come up with some constructive criticism.

- Many pubs find the map confusing, despite being able to ping bases.
- Many pubs do not understand how tower cores are gained on this map in comparison to Stormwail.
- Many pubs and some more experienced players dislike Gloom because of the general confusion surrounding its towers.

These are generalizations I've encountered. Gloom is an interesting map, with creative spawn paths and cool Murloc towers. Unfortunately it is also (apart from Candle) the least popular map in the game.

I am not entirely sure of what to suggest but I thought may as well bring it up. So post your thoughts if you wish.

Somethings that come to mind are:

- Perhaps the spawn map is too confusing, and its better to go to a more traditional set-up. The map befuddles many people and despite best intentions and prospective text explanations it still probably won't be fully grasped.
- Flying heroes have an incredible advantage on this map because of the short distance, but large amount of pools and unwalkable areas. They essentially don't need teleports. Not sure how to fix this.

I just figured out how they flowed because of the path feature town halls have. >_>

What may be needed since every map having a "different objective" being shoved down people's throats, there may as well be a brief intro to each specific map.

Having a brief intro to every map is... : |

It's bad enough how long the game is, sitting through a tutorial of Gloomreap every time people choose it would be painful. People would probably just leave too.

http://eota.emufarmers.com/wiki/Gloomreap_Mire

DarnYak

While the confusing lanes are lame, its not the end of the world.

The main thing for me is the CRISSCROSSING lanes, so spawns go all over the fucking place, where they shouldn't be going.

Flying heroes are imba on this map because the water thing.

Top and Bottom aren't balanced. The west team always wins bottom and the east team always wins top.

The store placement favours the top-east team geavily (Acient store).

Overall, I find the lane business more frustrating then *cool*. It causes more problems then its worth.

However Gloomreap has some really really good parts, they just don't compare to all the massive negatives

Murloc spawn towers are good, so are the original items (even if they're rarely used, thats why I said to Yak that they should be in Stormwail).

Also, the game is fun in a smaller map, more hero fighting, more running between lanes (actual running, not the TP to expo business), it makes team play a lot more fun and PK'ing more enjoyable. Good placement of fountains aids this bringing fountain skirmishes that aren't in the middle of nowhere.

Gloomite is a nice fresh change, cooler then obelisks too, though it is a lot more "hands off".

I think Yak has (or could) learn a lot about map design from Gloom, and keep the good stuff while changing or eliminating the bad/frustrating parts.

Felpine Grove or w/e sounds like it would have some of the good aspects of Gloom (small map, interconnectedness, not-Obelisks, original junk). Even something new would be nice. Yak experimented with something (which is good) and it didn't work out that well (that happens).

Not every map can be as fun as Kedge (which, if it didn't crash me every single fucking game, would be really fun).

http://eota.emufarmers.com/wiki/Gloomreap_Mire

DarnYak

Yes, I know the lanes and there is a good chance people on this form are similarly familiar with them. But most other people are not. And during the game, sometimes even the spawns seem to get confused.

I wish more people would post ideas : (

I'm more refering to the fact that the wiki states it's the "Best map in eota!", and thus I don't see why it needs changes.

DarnYak

i found flying heros to be at a disadvantage compared to stormwail, because of the missing cliffs and anything else the would hinder line of sight

on top of that i found gloom to be quiete addictive after the time of confusion about the lanes was gone

the bridege may be bit imba, maybe putting it more away from the blue base wowuld help

DarnYak wrote:I'm more refering to the fact that the wiki states it's the "Best map in eota!", and thus I don't see why it needs changes.

DarnYak

The wiki now sports a bunch of anti-Semitic bullshit. I see no "Best map in EotA!"

Gloomreap Mire wiki entry history:

Original: Best map in eota!
(diff) (hist) . . Gloomreap Mire‎; 09:48 . . (+4,525) . . 79.175.84.135 (Talk) (corrected) *Antisemitism stuff*
(diff) (hist) . . Gloomreap Mire‎; 16:22 . . (-4,525) . . 24.215.137.96 (Talk) (Undo revision 2132 by 79.175.84.135 (Talk)) Best map in eota!
(diff) (hist) . . Gloomreap Mire‎; 16:48 . . (+7,128) . . 79.175.84.135 (Talk) (improved) *Whatver, I dont even want to know what it is about*

The current version is actually very fitting, in a postmodern way.

This spawn route thing being confusing could be solved by giving the spawn buildings(castles) a spell that shows the path the creeps will take from said spawn building.

I never found it confusing, looked pretty straight forward to me when I first saw it.

As for flying heroes, I've never had any problem with them, but if you think they gain some sort of edge then maybe you could add a 20% slow over water or something?

Those hydras are _really_ strong!

I love Gloom for so many reasons: cool items, spawn towers, look n' feel of map, green crystals n' pools of muck But it does have some strange path issues as well as the Gloom mining.

Zcuron wrote:This spawn route thing being confusing could be solved by giving the spawn buildings(castles) a spell that shows the path the creeps will take from said spawn building.

good point !

Zcuron wrote:This spawn route thing being confusing could be solved by giving the spawn buildings(castles) a spell that shows the path the creeps will take from said spawn building.

It's thanks to this already existing feature that I understood the paths fairly quickly.

Many pubs find the map confusing, despite being able to ping bases.

I already said the option was there and occasionally a new person will find it, but generally most people are disinclined to look.

I was just thinking, my original plan for Stormwail was actualy to be a large map (ok, i got that) with lots of small paths that spawns may take, rather than main roads. I've even been thinking about how to do it better for whatever map i make for SC2.

And then I just remembered how confusing Gloom spawns are. Time to scrap that idea.

DarnYak

DarnYak wrote:I was just thinking, my original plan for Stormwail was actualy to be a large map (ok, i got that) with lots of small paths that spawns may take, rather than main roads. I've even been thinking about how to do it better for whatever map i make for SC2.

And then I just remembered how confusing Gloom spawns are. Time to scrap that idea.

DarnYak

By the way, I remember that sometime around 1.05 or .06 the secondary bases for the Inn and Rock lanes were moved to the corners, any particular reason that was done?

To make room for HIDDEN FUN STUFF.

Dekar wrote:To make room for HIDDEN FUN STUFF.

Well that's just stating the obvious, I was talking about the secret objectives.

Why what do you mean by HIDDEN FUN STUFF

Discombobulator wrote:By the way, I remember that sometime around 1.05 or .06 the secondary bases for the Inn and Rock lanes were moved to the corners, any particular reason that was done?

Because the spawns would often walk right past the front base while it was being sieged, making it one of the easiest outposts to take down. I believe there was something else too, like corner was too valuable but too easy to take, so I wanted..not a second "main base", but something larger than a standard outpost too.

DarnYak

well when you think about it flying heroes can have a particular advantage on Stormwail too; there's enough mountains and stuff around. Flyers have to come onto land eventually to attack you at all, but my suggestion is not to change anything; water is pathable by air, but not by land; in contrast, mountains can be pathable by land, and by air. This raises an interesting point. If for example the Icespinner were to throw his web on a flying hero over water, the hero would not be able to land in water and would automatically be displaced onto dry ground where he could be attacked. Same goes for Trapping Nets from a Goblin shop, and even the Fel Horde Wardrummers (Ensnare).

Flying give's a movement advantage everywhere, your right. It's pretty obvious. The problem with Gloom is that the entire map is so small (its basically pointless to buy a teleport on that map) that its the advantage is exaggerrated, that and seemingly random ass placement of water.