Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

An Aeon of Strife map for Warcraft 3
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PostPosted: August 18th, 2013, 2:05 pm 
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Optimizations, bug fixes, balance tweaks. Still more left with the AI, which wasn't really touched.

DarnYak


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PostPosted: August 18th, 2013, 7:03 pm 
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Last Updated: 8/25/13
- More checking with SetUnit stuff

8/21/13
- Reminders
- Aero
- Storm AI

8/20/13
- Neph stuff

8/19/13
- Blackguard Testing
- Scarab Tooltips
- Problems with SetUnitX/Y

Bugs/Questions
  • Stalkers are not invisible.
  • Some of the issues come from optimizing SetUnitX/Y. In general, it comes from SetUnitPosition interrupting a unit's order, while the SetUnitX/Y doesn't.
    • Dream Run can fall short of the actual position, probably due to issuing a move order which changes the speed.
    • Geyser throw gets messed up since units can move.
    • Gale doesn't interrupt enemies anymore and can throw them off of cliffs.
    • Force of Nature doesn't interrupt.
    • Maelstrom doesn't interrupt.
    • Incinerate doesn't interrupt.
    • Swoop allows Harpy to attack while she's flying. The knockback can send units into the black border and cause crash if it goes outside of the map.
    • Charge allows Bane to cast spells in the midst of charging.
    • Chasten ignores pathing.
    • Untested but might not interrupt enemies: Zen Shot, Swoop, initial push of Impale, initial push of Avalanche (unless it stuns while it drags units), Reek's innate
    • Probably should add safety testing to knockback that didn't ignore pathing: Incinerate, Swoop
  • The shrines give visibility of the enemy's base.
  • I've managed to reproduce Neph's magic damage reduction. It looks like some kind of reduction is applied against non-hero units. Against heroes, however, the damage is 75% of what -s states, which is correct. The spells I tested were Scorch, Duskslash, Vampiric Bite, and Pain.
    This doesn't seem consistent; I played a game where Neph's damage was normal.
    Attachment:
    neph's screwy damage.w3g [26.63 KiB]
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    Attachment:
    neph's screwy damage against hero.w3g [17.51 KiB]
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  • Neph's skill cycling can occur from using certain items like Spider Webs and Scroll of Wealth.
  • The multiboard title seems to glitch while being an observer, switching from Team Status and Heroes.
  • Is it intentional for the Blue team to gain an extra AI hero when observing?
  • Darkstride's agility decay doesn't seem to remove the last +1 bonus.
  • Merced (Red/Blue) AI Storm can't use her ult properly; she casts it but strikes don't happen.
  • Barren can't damage summoned invulnerable units.

Tooltips
  • Unwilling Sacrifice misspells Desecrated Corpse in both the spell and research tooltip. In the spell tooltip, it doesn't mention that the corpses reduce the mana regeneration of enemies. It also doesn't follow the convention of the active/passive distinction made by other spells.
  • Sacred Bulwark is referred to as Indignation in the research tooltip. Is it supposed to be called both? The research tooltip doesn't mention that self-healing gets improved.
  • Life Wave's spell tooltip still refers to the mechanic of healing a targeted unit first when it doesn't anymore. (change from 1.14b)
  • Smite's spell tooltip should be "target's."
  • Plunder's shield damage -s is inconsistent with the tooltip which reports a higher value.
  • Ascendant's selection tooltip could have "Attack" listed as "Short Range" to be in line with Harpy.
  • Stormweaver's hire tooltip at the Tavern doesn't reflect her revamp.
  • Victory message at end should probably reference eota.emufarmers.com
  • Commands quest could mention -surrender
  • Setup Commands quest could mention -observe
  • Just to note, in single player, the Map Description text gets cut off at "Two factions have besieged the area, attempting to"

AI
  • This is not specific to this version, but I've felt that the AI usually ends up ignoring fountains. Noticeable on Kedge and VF.
  • Change SB's Mend base ability so that he doesn't waste it.
  • Storm casts Tether more often against enemy units. The only bad thing is that she doesn't always try to keep it in intact. For example, if she sees a large creep wave she might cast it only to break it from retreating. In general, she's not really offensive with Tether, but I'm not sure if you want to make her more aggressive since she's squishy.
    She casts Twister too which is kind of neat though towers still rape them quickly.
  • Murloc doesn't change direction of her ult.

Reminders
  • Blackguard's Fiend base armor didn't change
  • Adjust Tidal Curse (less spam, more muscles)

Suggestions
  • Scarab's ult is pretty hard to see. The immolate effect often blends with other effects that can happen and isn't too obvious in general. It would also be good to see some kind of special effect when affected by Retribution so that it doesn't look like something invisible killed you.
    In other news, I dislike this skill, and I'm not sure number tweaks will make me feel any different. One of my concern is that both active and effect durations are infuriatingly long.
    In general, I just don't like the concept of Shared Pain, especially when Scarab is very passive-aggressive about doing it.
  • Aero: Maelstrom is less of a trap. It's kind of weird to see the pull having a much larger area than the targeting one. The damage against buildings still feels a tad high to me but the scaling isn't as ridiculous. I'm still surprised with the low mana cost given Aero pretty much reaches infinite mana status.
    Fortunately it's not as easy to be ridiculous with Tempest's damage. I do feel that the base is somewhat low given it's a channeling spell. The hard thing about balance is that she has the potential to scale from her talents, changing it from being a tickling spell to devastation. It's interesting how much more Buffet improves the spell when it would be lacking otherwise.


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PostPosted: August 25th, 2013, 6:14 pm 
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Reminders
  • Remove Burstcap debug message
  • Adjust DW, Lich (:P), SB
  • Make Scouts smaller.
Replay: BP ignored pathing and two heroes ended up getting stuck in the main base.


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PostPosted: August 25th, 2013, 8:35 pm 
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[07:23:27 PM] <watermelon_1234> SB, Garg, Harpy, Dwarf, Lich, DW, TC, AA(?)
[07:23:42 PM] <watermelon_1234> and then there are heroes whose one skill i dislike
[07:23:54 PM] <watermelon_1234> ahem rue
[07:24:15 PM] <watermelon_1234> though actually it might not be that useless ons torm
[07:24:31 PM] <watermelon_1234> seeing as how i usually end up building a command tower now
[07:24:55 PM] <watermelon_1234> in general, for fliers, they just feel very strong
[07:25:08 PM] <EotA> heh
[07:25:24 PM] <watermelon_1234> and being strong while being able to be untargeted by a lot of nukes
[07:25:29 PM] <watermelon_1234> is meh
[07:25:36 PM] <watermelon_1234> by default anyway
[07:26:01 PM] <watermelon_1234> SB we discussed a little already
[07:26:09 PM] <watermelon_1234> Dwarf is just weird
[07:26:11 PM] <watermelon_1234> he's a good tank
[07:26:19 PM] <watermelon_1234> but it's hard to see if he's doing anything
[07:26:24 PM] <watermelon_1234> i think i can pk more easily with rue
[07:26:47 PM] <watermelon_1234> Lich is pretty narrow minded
[07:26:53 PM] <watermelon_1234> it looks like it's geared towards offense
[07:27:11 PM] <watermelon_1234> it starts out pretty bad
[07:27:21 PM] <watermelon_1234> DW isn't really lacking
[07:27:27 PM] <watermelon_1234> it's just that the other aoers provide more
[07:27:39 PM] <watermelon_1234> TC
[07:27:57 PM] <watermelon_1234> AA is nearly there for the same reason as DW
[07:28:13 PM] <EotA> did the buff to shadowstride help dwarf at all
[07:28:27 PM] <watermelon_1234> won't comment on that since i haven't played it
[07:28:35 PM] <watermelon_1234> well an agi boost is certainly welcoming though
[07:29:00 PM] <watermelon_1234> the ult boost is more awesome with the damage at least
[07:29:14 PM] <EotA> yea do i need to do more with ult
[07:29:36 PM] <watermelon_1234> for now, i don't think so
[07:29:42 PM] <watermelon_1234> the main reason i wouldn't like it though
[07:29:45 PM] <watermelon_1234> is because it's just a buff
[07:29:56 PM] <watermelon_1234> almost like how scarab's old ult was boring
[07:29:59 PM] <watermelon_1234> but it really wasn't
[07:30:06 PM] <watermelon_1234> well it wasn't to me anyway
[07:30:23 PM] <EotA> heh
[07:32:13 PM] <EotA> so uh
[07:32:16 PM] <EotA> what's bad about dwarf exactly? ;P
[07:32:35 PM] <watermelon_1234> i don't know
[07:32:37 PM] <watermelon_1234> his looks
[07:32:45 PM] <watermelon_1234> and the fac tthat he made me forget to place CS on the list
[07:33:18 PM] <watermelon_1234> i still remembe rwhen he was op
[07:33:26 PM] <watermelon_1234> in the first game i played with you
[07:33:37 PM] <watermelon_1234> maybe it's fondness for those days
[07:34:10 PM] <EotA> heh
[07:34:37 PM] <watermelon_1234> well for CS
[07:34:43 PM] <watermelon_1234> he just feels really item reliant
[07:34:54 PM] <watermelon_1234> because that's the only viable way to get thim to stick to a stat


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PostPosted: August 26th, 2013, 12:26 pm 
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Played Dwarf. He actually doesn't seem like he needs a revamp.

Bugs
  • Tooltip for Unwilling says it heals 100% + 0.01 * Int, but at 17 Int, -s states 116% heal.
  • His ult is listed as Evocation which doesn't make sense. It would be helpful to list the duration.

Other thoughts
  • Ult seems useful in boosting his attack damage but it's not always easy to be in low health to use it. Of course, now it makes a rather good combo with Unwilling Sacrifice thanks to the new mechanic.
  • Still unsure about fully investing into Shadowstride and Unwilling Sacrifice. Shadowstride might be useful in pure auto attack but it's probably not worth losing Shadowclap which helps PK (The combo of Hammer and Shadowclap doesn't seem too easy to dodge). Unwilling doesn't seem to scale that well.
  • Investing in Strength doesn't help as much as investing in attack damage as his skills scale somewhat poorly and Strength is hard to invest in.
  • I find it a bit strange that he has two Shadowclap talents that conflict with each other (one boosts damage the longer it takes while the other shortens the delay). Shortening the delay is more useful, but the AI is pretty dumb that it doesn't really matter.
  • The Fiend can be very stupid and often doesn't attack anything without direct orders. He has a useful talent in decreasing armor which makes auto-attacking more worth it.

AI would probably be better off using Shadowclap as a secondary skill rather than investing in whatever it does.

EDIT:
Played CS. Almost impossible to PK alone early-game, but he can scale pretty well late-game.
-s doesn't list Crash's stun for strength.
In general, Dominating Blow's damage feels weak early-game. It's kind of fail that he can't hit flying units with it.
He's kind of like Dwarf since investing in attack damage seems better than investing in stats.
Like Swash, he does best in melee. Unlike Swash, he has weaker tools to chase an enemy hero: Crash and Duel, both of which seem to have relatively long cooldown and unnoticeable scaling. He does seem to survive better than Swash though.


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PostPosted: August 26th, 2013, 6:44 pm 
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Quote:
•I find it a bit strange that he has two Shadowclap talents that conflict with each other (one boosts damage the longer it takes while the other shortens the delay). Shortening the delay is more useful, but the AI is pretty dumb that it doesn't really matter.

They don't conflict at all, but I should reword it somehow. The damage boost is applied before the time shortening is.

DarnYak


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PostPosted: August 27th, 2013, 1:13 pm 
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Played AA. She does feel a bit lacking.
[Most AI games I play finish around the hour mark; playing her in VF took about 90 minutes to finish. Then again, playing against a team of healers (stupid TC) with allies that refuse to cast their ults (Defiler and Oracle), would make most games longer.]

Meteor Swarm looks like it could scale well but more often, not all meteors will hit the same target. For some reason, it doesn't always stun which doesn't help, considering that it's already difficult trying to hit a moving target.
Familiar is really only useful for the random roots it may throw out; late-game, it feels like a liability. It would be nice if casting the spell while it was alive healed it rather than just making it blink to AA.
Old Ethereal Healing was very useful, now one point Ethereal Healing may save someone, but it's really not worth investing further. The research tooltip could mention that the mana cost also decreases with level.

Forks do give experience upon a kill.


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PostPosted: August 30th, 2013, 9:42 pm 
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Probably not significant but random draft is broken for choosing AI computer allies; you can't do anything when you're supposed to be picking for them. Better behavior should probably just end the draft after human players choose.


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PostPosted: August 31st, 2013, 11:50 am 
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Some stuff that I came across:
  • Harpy's Feast can still be activated while ethereal (doesn't really matter since she can't attack while ethereal anyway)
  • Blade Rain cannot be used while ethereal although it's an evocation (that may or may not be intentional)
  • according to -s, evocation damage bonus does not work on Blade Rain (I don't know if it actually works)
  • for some levels of Blade Rain, the skill tooltip still claims the bleed effect lasts 9 seconds (I think it was shortened to 5)
  • attacking a voodoo doll doesn't deal damage to the cursed hero if that hero is ethereal at the moment when the attack hits
  • Maw only gets one charge for digesting/spitting regardless of number of units devoured (I think I observed getting two charges once but couldn't reproduce it)
  • Brainlust still only gives skill level 1 healing amount (10%) regardless of skill level (I only tested this with Reek himself, I don't know if the same is true for other heroes or non-hero units affected by Brainlust)
AI observations:
  • AI Gargoyle tries to use Ravenous Dive on flying enemies
  • AI Fireknight tries to use Phoenix Strike against flying enemies
  • font hero AI is still stupid, running back and forth inside thier own base and never really finding a way to the front lines
  • not having items makes font heroes really squishy in the late game


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PostPosted: September 3rd, 2013, 3:55 pm 
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-s doesn't have anything for Overwhelm.
Hydra Mail cooldown is wrong on the tooltip.
Crash -s doesn't have anything for Strength.

I feel that Bane deserves some nerfs. He has rather strong stuns combined with great damage output.
Innate still feels like a guaranteed stun to me in that distance doesn't seem to matter. Bane would still be able to stun anyway for a 100% if he uses Charge or Impale.
Caustic Breath is probably one of the best pure damage nukes and it barely costs anything to use it.
Impale's stun duration feels kind of ridiculous since it already disables units when used.
I don't think Charge's stun duration should scale in regards to how many stuns Bane already has.


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PostPosted: September 7th, 2013, 11:22 am 
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Only a few things today:
  • font heroes still show debug messages of the previous style
  • the Swashbuckler's upgrade to banners doesn't seem to improve with banner levels; I know that the Arcane Archer's banner upgrade does; tests of the others are pending
  • Dash can be used while rooted, but the skill is wasted because it can't move a rooted Swashbuckler


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PostPosted: September 7th, 2013, 10:00 pm 
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Deep Freeze mentions x seconds to channel instead of a formula.
Is it supposed to be possible to receive nothing from getting crystalized mana?

Tyrant is probably the most offensive shielder. He becomes very strong late-game. The long slow duration from Ice Breath is rather absurd when coupled with the damage. Shatter doesn't do much early-game, but it can scale to be a very strong melee damage skill without that much investment in the skill, especially with the armor decrease.


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PostPosted: September 8th, 2013, 11:16 am 
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Most/all of the hero getting stuck issues are due to Maelstrom (which was also causing the loss of pathing), although its also possible that a hero uses a tp scroll during a knockback and ends up getting stuck in the middle of the hall.

Quote:
•attacking a voodoo doll doesn't deal damage to the cursed hero if that hero is ethereal at the moment when the attack hits

I'd like this double checked because it does magic damage the same as everything else.

Quote:
Deep Freeze mentions x seconds to channel instead of a formula.

Formula there would be to complex.

Quote:
Is it supposed to be possible to receive nothing from getting crystalized mana?

I've added a small change to hopefully make it impossible, but it probably means you're getting a value below one but above zero.

Quote:
•I've managed to reproduce Neph's magic damage reduction. It looks like some kind of reduction is applied against non-hero units. Against heroes, however, the damage is 75% of what -s states, which is correct. The spells I tested were Scorch, Duskslash, Vampiric Bite, and Pain.
This doesn't seem consistent; I played a game where Neph's damage was normal.

I'm not 100% sure this is the cause, but I'm not sure what else it could be. A looooooooong time ago, there were just 5 basic universal upgrades: Damage, Health, Armor, Speed, and Magic Damage Reduction. While the upgrades were made unavailable, they remained on most of the original units just incase I ever wanted to bring them back - which means its unit dependant. Some newer race units have it too from copy/pasting ability lists, but its less consistent. My guess is level 1 is ignoring its upgrade dependency (some buggy abilities do that) and is just always active. And somehow nobody has ever caught this.

DarnYak


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