Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

Okay, well i play a lot at the moment and notieced somethign riddiculous, just watch:

The major AoE healing spells are: Ki-Strike, FotD, Healing Wave, Sacrifice Altar (i think i missed something, just cant figure out which one, so tell me ):




Lets start witch Ki-Strike:

AoE:
It has not really an at all but it works llike one, those balls spawn and hit random units in an AoE centered on the hero, i can just roughly estimate the range at ~1000.

Its Effectiveness:
Well, it actually heals some units and can eventualy be enough to turn a wave battle, that is aalready almsot even into your favour, but usually it helps your units almost not. On allied Heros if they are in the vicinity of the spell, they have a good chance to get 1/10 to 2/5 of their hp back (depending on you/their level, KI level, total hp of healed hero).

The Casting:
ITS GODDAMN CHANNELING -> can be interrupted and leaves you very vulnerable, usually you are surrounded by allied units and stand in the back row though.

Damage (/w talent):
Over an average game you can kill maybe 5-10 units in total, but just maybe.
Havent managed to kill heros so far.
(although a REALLY stupid move of a hag almost made her the first one (but she was the only enemy unit in the range, sorrow was pounnding on her /w mortal strike and we were supported by ~20 ranged creeps on which she casted blade rain, giving me lots to heal))
->gold earned ~100-500 over an entire game




Now the Altar:

AoE:
Heals in an area around the summoned Altar, estimated 1000

Its Effectiveness:
Heals average amounts of health, especially in big battles with lots of dead units, in smaller ones its rather useless.
It can heal heros to full hp if they stay in the AoE but it takes some time, crucial time that chased heros usually dont have.
A great disadvantage is, that it can be attacked, while itself is low on hp, and dispelled (not sure on this one though - havent seen it becoming dispelled so far, but i think it is possible, even more due to its low hp)

The Casting:
Casting range is okay, mana costs are average and its fire and forget. Disadvantages are the immobility pared witht the high cooldown.

Money /w talent:
Not too much, pretty useful though. I assume that an average of 100-600 units dies in range of an altar during a game (very depending on the game duration though) what makes an average of 300-1800 gold.
(i might mistaken here, i THINK it was 3 gold/unit)




here comes the Flame of the Devout:

AoE:
Its defenitley centered on the flame, im not sure about the AoE though, but it seems fair lower than these of KI and Altar.

Effectiveness:
Actually it does heal, but in fact you dont recognize much of it, even at lvl6.
It can be dispelled what has an even greater impact due to its self consuming nature.

The Casting:
Not much to say here other than that its not channeling.
Did i mention the freakin high cooldown? I guess i must have at some point.

++No Talents no Damage no Nothing.

Idea of improvement (besides buffing its healing values - but that should be clear):
Make it consume enemies standing direct on the flame, replenishing the health of the flame.
Sounds strong, but the flame itself is actually pretty small, thus not allowing many enemies to stand on it.
This could be a talent though.




Last but not least (by far not), the Healing Wave:


AoE:
Line area of effect of estimated 300*1500.

Effectiveness:
Can heal huge amounts of hp to lots of units.
And its capable of healing several allied heros from no to full hp INSTANTLY (even gravel with 5k+hp).

Casting:
Fire and forget, not channeling, it moves fast, good cooldown and average mana costs.

Damage:
Compareable to holy strike, little harder to aim though, therefore it can kill whole waves of spawns with one shot.
Managed to kill several heros myself, with and without allied help.
->thousands of shiny gold pieces



Conclusion:
Either healing wave is hilarious overpowered or altar, KI and FotD are totally underpowered or both.


My personal thoughts:
I think the healing wave is slightly too strong, especially on the damag part, -> should be lowered.
As well as the the others, especiall FotD and KI beeing hopelessly underpowered.
Altar is fine, deserves maybe a slight buff, just very slight though.

Or every hero is different and shouldn't have the same power heal

Last time I played BP, the flame did fine for what I used it for, delaying death allowing you to stay in longer. I primarily use it mid-late game when we're in the enemy base, I cast it, the armor, and ult. And attack for as long as my int build allows.

Okay, well i play a lot at the moment and notieced somethign riddiculous, just watch:

The major heroes in the game are: Divine Wizard, Arboreal Crusader, Rune Knight, Dread Shaman (i think i missed something, just cant figure out which one, so tell me ):



Lets start witch Divine Wizard:

Heroness:
He's a hero

Effectiveness:
Amazing

Awesomeness:
9



Now the Arboreal Crusader:

Heroness:
Also a hero

Effectiveness:
Slightly less amazing

Awesomeness:
Also 9



here comes the Rune Knight:

Heroness:
Two heroes... no wait, still one

Effectiveness:
Hard to kill!

Awesomeness:
None



Last but not least (by far not), the Dread Shaman:

Heroness:
He be a hero mon

Effectiveness:
Good

Awesomeness:
Troll



Conclusion:
Either DW is a hero like the other three, or one is totally not a hero. Why are they all heroes...

My personal thoughts:
I think the Dread Shaman should just be a troll, especially on the being a troll and a hero part, -> should be just troll.
As well as the the others, especiall DW and AC beeing heroes.
Rune Knight is fine, deserves maybe being two heroes, just very slight though.

Reaper wrote:Or every hero is different and shouldn't have the same power heal

I highly appreciate the idea of very different heros having very different skill setups.
In this meaning:
I like the concept of dark altar and ki-strike and especiall the look of last one.

I am just concerned about the strengths of the skills, as they directly tranlsate to the strength of the hero, i therefore cannot appreciate heros having different skills with a similar effect but totally different levels of power. Not because i want the skills to have the very same effect but because its tearing balance.

@Sloubourne:
I neither deny the fact that the flame has an effect at all or that it actually can be useful in some situations. I just say it is generally less useful than th skills i compare it to, whicha re skills, that are ought to have a similar effect and therefore have similar application areas. I would highly appreciate to invite you to a balance testing seesion though, just tell me a date and time .

@Toxik
Im sorry i dont get your point, maybe you could tell us in a more literal tongue, to solve all unclearances.

I just noticed the folowing, you obviously refer to my style, in which i set up the thread, copying it.

This has either of the folliowing meanings:

You had had liked it taht much that you felt the urge to copy it, and express yourself through it
In this case i thank you.

OR, you try to make fun of it by puttin it into an absurd concept.
Well, in this case i would politely ask you to stop vandalism in this thread, i wanted it to be a serious discussion

Feel free to express your thoughts though, but in a way everyone can appreciate it.

mfg
Q

Well, not just "Rune Knight" is hard to kill, but he also makes allies hard to kill. He's also free repairs for the widdle down effect on towers. Then there's Divine Wizard with Rune Knight, using Rune Shell to allow Divine Wizard to reserve a low health vengence safely for long periods of time.

I'l gladly join in that game as soon as I get bnet fixed.

Furion wrote:

Reaper wrote:Or every hero is different and shouldn't have the same power heal

I highly appreciate the idea of very different heros having very different skill setups.
In this meaning:
I like the concept of dark altar and ki-strike and especiall the look of last one.

I am just concerned about the strengths of the skills, as they directly tranlsate to the strength of the hero, i therefore cannot appreciate heros having different skills with a similar effect but totally different levels of power. Not because i want the skills to have the very same effect but because its tearing balance.

These heroes all have healing, but that's not all they do. Why should they all have balanced healing powers when each hero has different skills other than the healing skills. Some might be more geared towards healing, or sieging, or tanking, or attacking. The hero as a whole needs to be taken into account, not just one type of skill for a select few heroes.