Nephillium overpowered?

[Seig_2]

Ok, so I finally sat down and messed with the Nepillium. 2 words. Hes overpowered. Has anyone told Yak about this? what do you guys think? Is he OP?
I do think they're are some heros that could take him, but not without being scathed badly. I mean, he's was suppost to be "hard" to play and confusing. I played him for 30min and had him all figured out. Heck, I could play him better than some other heros that I played a dozen times more. The only hard thing about him is getting use to his spell change, once you've got that figured out he's like a noob hero that owns all. He's got like what, 6 dmg spells, 2 heals, an invis, buff removers, crzy. My friend played him about a month ago on candleburg. He raped badly. He was 2 shoting the inf (his older brother) and she was almost fully specd. Let me know what you all think. If enough of use agree on this we should talk to Yak about it. Anyway,
--Sieg_2
Heros that might take Neph?

Rune Knight
Time Cleric
Ice Spinner
Acid Reaver

Any others you guys could think of would be great. Thanxs.

[randomd00d]

I think he is good lategame, but he has a difficult time early on.

As a melee agi hero, he is lacking HP and has a hard time getting last hits. Unlike Inf and her mines, he has no "uberskill" that is really useful early on to either Nuke an enemy hero to discourage them. He has no good heal until 15, and lacks HPs to withstand early nukes and shots from ranged heroes.

His spells are mostly underpowered and overcosted. The beauty is that he can spam them like crazy later on. But early on, Pain (2sec stun + small nuke) is really the only solid spell he has. Vamp Bite sucks. The War series of Swipe, plunder, lunge?, they all do weak damage.

Within a short time, he is out of mana and helpless. Compare Scorch weak damage to that of a real nuker like Icespinner, Div Wizard, or even the nasty channeled hold/nuke that aeromancer gets.

With no primary attribute effectively, it is difficult to specialize on any particular spell series. Best bet is INT for more mana, regen, and spam scorch, Pain.

Even then, if left alone, he cannot farm that effectively since he lacks a decent AoE spell until lvl15. (immolate doesnt count...)


HOWEVER, once he is fed, he becomes a beast! He needs more skillpoints than most heroes to max out 2 skills and his ult, And add 1 point to the other 2 skills (for cycling). Give him a maxed orb of skill and a helm of mana regen and watch him goo! With tons of crystal, you can buy the extra skills, and then pump up all 3 attributes more efficiently than foes can crank their 1 or 2 useful attributes.

I used a INT-based Neph, and base attacking becomes ridiculously easy at level 35 when you can cast
T(Ignus Fireball of Victory), click T(locate heroes spell, only for cycling), click W(for invis, cycling), click W(for evasion, cycling), C(lifetap, cycling), all within 5 seconds or so.

Repeat this cycle and you can empty a big mana pool in 20 seconds, spewing DOZENS of 300 damage homing missile fireballs that lay waste to anything and everything in sight.... including buildings.



I'd say play against good opponents that dont feed in the first 10 minutes of the game, and you may decide Neph isnt so overpowered after all.

[Perhaps]

    Nephillium is only overpowered if the other team is utterly retarded... The game should be decided before he can be even close to par, and well, when he's par it would be too late. Kind of a gimpish hero if you ask me. DarnYak shouldn't have put it "for advanced players only," should be "for pub smashing only." -_-

[Laser_Wolf]

I agree that Nephillim can seem over powered. And he really only is a raper at around level 40. Yak has posted saying that Neph was supposed to have CD's, that would probably help. Also Neph can really kill heros if he has enough mana. T(exucute) E(small AoE skill that I can't remember the name of) W(Swipe?) C(2second stun skill) C(another one target damage skill) and you can start back all over again with execute after that. Can be very annoying.

I actually think that he might be more powerful in a game with better players. The game will last longer and he will then be a higher level, meaning that he will own more. If you were to pubstomp you can only get to about level 35-45 before the game ends.

[randomd00d]

I think he should be modified slightly.

Whenever you use a skill from a particular school, that ENTIRE SCHOOL is on cooldown for 15 seconds (or so).

To compensate, you could pump up the power level of the existing spells about 25% or so. That way, Pain can scale up to 3.5 sec of stun, more damage from the direct dmg spells, etc to make them more on par with other characters (although still weaker of course)

The main reason he is overpowered lategame is because he can spam skills so fast.

The main reason he sucks earlygame is because his skills are individually weak and only powerful when spammed/comboed repeatedly.


This solves both problems and balances him out more.

[jamn455]

Neph was supposed to have cooldowns, Yak has always said that something weird happened that he could not find which caused the skills to lose their cooldowns.

[Perhaps]

    I know it's neat and all with the whole cycle thing. But why not just have done with it, and have each skill have a list of skills within it, like Shaman's totems for example.
-_-

[Thermie]

The main reason he sucks earlygame is because his skills are individually weak and only powerful when spammed/comboed repeated

Even early game spamming a mana gain/heal rotation help you level faster and stay in combat longer then anyone but Time Cleric, and past 15 there is little anyone can do to him he can't over come if rotated correctly. Load this guy with strength and its game over.

And as for what Sieg said:

Rune Knight - This guy would have potential of Nephilim couldn't just blow through his little shield with all his DD and Plunder. Even though when I play Nephilim I just hit this guy with false alliance and leave him be.

Time Cleric - She can in no way put out enoguh damage to kill him through his heals, let alone channel a full Degenerate due to flame gate and invis.

Ice Spinner - He does enough damage to do it, but in turn if he is geared to put out that kind of damage is survivability is shot to the point where a Shred - Pain - Vampiric Bite is all it takes and then some heals after he is dead.

Acid Reaver - I run away from this guy most of the time, two strength based heros duking it out isnt much fun and its rather random who wins it.

[Perhaps]

Nephillium is agility based, also a good Acid Reaver can't be left alone.

[Furion]

I also think he needs to get into lategame to be strong.

Besides i dont think that you use him already at maximum efeciency if you just keep on spamming a single cycle line.

Real mastery would be to have one line for any situation and the ability to adapt the lines as needed.
To achieve that, you might really have to practice a lot.

[Azathoth21]

Ok let's check.

Yesterday I played with him again xD

and yes it's true he IS overpowered but not in the first mins of game not in the first 10 20 or even 30 mins of game (NOTE: only if a good hero faces him).............. ANYWAY... when were at 1 hour and 10 mins or something like that ( our team losing for the noobs xD) I killed all enemy heros in the other side and break bases almost alone all the help I need was inf for towers.

When we were almost dead (I mean base in a 5 mins of resistance) I faced Alexander in a 1v1 duel (well that gay guy was with creeps and I'm all alone) I "raped" him (creeps included )


My point in this is: YES. He IS overpowered, but what you'll get with this "overpower skills" if your teammates won't collab. ya you'll kill lots of heroes but.... something else? you need the help of other guys to push in a base (at least at beginning). Not to mention you'll get out of mana and have to run to fountains or use another skill quick to regain it... REMEMBER this isn't dota. an overpowered hero killer won't do it alone. even Nephillium needs a hand for bases I know that his dark missiles help in the base but the problem is that this skills look for units first xD

Anyway is a good skill hero. but only if you know how to use him lvl him and get addict to him. Once we almost lose for him. and bots don't know how to play him xD

After a guy with him dies and leaves... comp-bot just feed the enemy team

[DarkNemesis]

I don't think Nephiliam is overpowered. A lot of heroes can solo: RK, Rue, Wolf, Scarab, that doesn't mean your overpowered simply because you can hold your ground against a couple of enemy heroes. Plus, for the most part, his spells are quite weak and expensive, though that isn't a problem if you can hero farm, and a mana orb with 3 str rings can be quite deadly. But so can alot of builds.

Plus, its like what alot of people have been saying, he takes a while to get good. And if he was overpowered, you'd think Yak or someone would have continuously brought up the fact.

[Ragnarokz]

The real problem in determining if he's over powered or not is, if you add a cooldown time to his spells, will he still be able to be as devastating as he is now? After watching and playing the Nephillium numerous times, (After being use to the spell cycle)I was able to induce a near continuous cycle of permastuning/permasilencing/permaslowing/etc. Despite the weak offensive power of the Nephillium's individual spells, if I was able to keep that cycle up as soon as I hit level 15, I could kill just about any hero(s). With that being said, In my opinion, I think that his spells should be stronger, yet have a cooldown time for the spells. (Perhaps talents could help with spell power and such?)

[DarkNemesis]

I wouldn't mind putting Cd's on Neph, provided they were short (incin). But be would definitely need his spells buffed and/or talents. Yes, if you put Cd's and didn't buff him, he'd easily become the new worst hero in EotA.

[jamn455]

The hero was made to have cooldowns, Yak does not know why all of a sudden the cooldowns were removed, but they were magically gone after a test version.

[DarnYak]

And most the skills were nerfed pretty hard as a temporary fix. I might put the (crappy) solution to lack of cooldowns in the next version, but i haven't decided yet.

DarnYak

[Ion]

Ok let's check.

Yesterday I played with him again xD

and yes it's true he IS overpowered but not in the first mins of game not in the first 10 20 or even 30 mins of game (NOTE: only if a good hero faces him).............. ANYWAY... when were at 1 hour and 10 mins or something like that ( our team losing for the noobs xD) I killed all enemy heros in the other side and break bases almost alone all the help I need was inf for towers.

When we were almost dead (I mean base in a 5 mins of resistance) I faced Alexander in a 1v1 duel (well that gay guy was with creeps and I'm all alone) I "raped" him (creeps included )

Replays would be nice if you could provide them, just in future- although they're a bitch to watch, Yak and others who are devoted would undoubtably be drawn to at least take a look.

I haven't any hard data but from experience, I have seen some games where Neph has done reasonably well, a few where he's been quite impressive and many others where he was almost totally a non-factor. The biggest plus to Neph is obviously the lack of cooldowns, and if you can solve the mana disparity (which becomes progressively easier as you level) he certainly becomes more useful. Certainly it's possible that Neph could solo an RK, but without knowing the relative player skill (did he use all his skills/nets, what level was he, skills; absolutely unrealistic things to expect in casual conversation like this) it's hard to make a decent judgment. I recommend you go on and see if you can get a clannie or two to play (good luck haha) and post up a replay if it seriously concerns you.

[Perhaps]

What exactly are you doing for the swap system for Nephillium? -_-

[Leek]

Yes Neph can be very strong if you know your cycles and shit. He's pretty strong against heroes who can't ward him off (with a nuke, a disabler or some shit) but if they can ward him off, he really isn't that hot, not terribad but nothing special.

[Ion]

False Alliance desperately calls for a nerf, and some of his nukes could be toned down a slight bit. I find his War cycle to be largely useless, but I don't have any statistical comparisons to make (it has one good nuke).

[DarkNemesis]

False Alliance desperately calls for a nerf, and some of his nukes could be toned down a slight bit. I find his War cycle to be largely useless, but I don't have any statistical comparisons to make (it has one good nuke).

Damn, now he's after Neph.

I'm saying this hero isn't OP, but he has two nukes that are decent: Shred and Execute. Both, believe it or not, don't hit terribly hard, especially with Execute being an ult in all.

[Leek]

False Alliance is the most annoying move ever :p

War is his most useless one I believe.

[Ion]

Damn, now he's after Neph.

I'm saying this hero isn't OP, but he has two nukes that are decent: Shred and Execute. Both, believe it or not, don't hit terribly hard, especially with Execute being an ult in all.

*REVISE: I changed my original, angry post into a much more relaxed post, in which I simply state that you are wrong.

False Alliance is uncounterable on the part of other heroes, and is bugged in that Neph can attack hero units, hero buildings (things like Gens) and in turn not get attacked by them. It gets a bit absurd when people start building Execution Gens on lanes and Neph can False Alliance them, stroll right up, rip that 500 apart and leave like it was nothing.