Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

Forlon Martyr: Idea for improvement
Target: Static Charge/Innate
Method: Conversion

Break Down:
The ability Charge, is pretty nice supplimental, but at the same time, it can't function as a combat heal, has to be used as a sideline heal. And it's damage, it only hits one target after a lot of circling around. And the class seems to need more, so this skill would be a good start.

What Stays:
Pretty much just the function that it builds up a value refered as "static" and its name.

Changing what?
Changing it to a complete passive. How the static will be used, will be changed. Pretty much the effect of building up static and using static will revolve around a buff that has multiple levels.

The Buff, and Static Building
Well needless to say running will give the Forlorn Martyr static. Like leveling a hero, we can think of the Static Points as experience to level the buff as we would know as the hero. You will get Static Points based on distance moved, however you will get a Static Point degeneration (Static Points lost over time), and the higher level of the Buff the greater the degeneration. The buff can lose its level if Static Points go under the needed ammount. So pretty much the faster you go and the more you move, the higher you get of the aura (like smolder but the other direction).

What does the buff do? And what is its name?
The buff's name is called Static Charge). Well what "Static Charge" does directly, is function as Unholy Aura, it will give the hero run speed and health regeneration, and the higher the level of "Static Charge", you will get more run speed and health regeneration.

Cool, a heal that I don't lose to a random footman, and great for traveling. But that still doesn't provide an offensive boost...:
That's true, with only what is said before. There will still be a way to discharge that static you build up, but it will be your buff that you discharge. When you discharge it, it will do a radial release of a negative version of "Static Charge" that will apply to all enemies in that radius.

What does the Negative Version do, and how do I discharge it when it's a passive?:
Well, starting with how it discharges, you simply just stop your hero and the level of the Negative version will be based on the level that you discharge the positive version. Well, I'm not sure what the negative version would do just yet. I was thinking of direct effects to the targets via buff... Or working with the other skills to increase their effects.

Considered Effects the "Static Charge" poses to Forlorn Martyr skills:
Polarize:
Polarizing a unit with the Negative buff would cause that unit to do the shocks of Polarize, and an aditional shocks based on the level of the discharge, and if it hits a unit that has the negative static charge, that hit unit will also shock units, with the number of shocks based on its level. When hit by the Polarize the negative Static Charge will degrade a level.

Ion Surge:
Ion Surge would simply do more damage based on the level of the negative "Static Charge."

Streaks:
When streaks hits "Static Charged" units. Forlorn Martyr would get static points based on the level of "Static Charge" of the unit it hits. Having Static Charge on Forlorn Martyr would increase Streaks' speed.

Thunderstrike:
Not a clue...

Stormspire:
Having units with "Static Charge" (tally of levels, like 5 units with level 4 "Static Charge", it will add up to an effect of level 20 "Static Charge") will increase move speed, and attack speed based on level of Static Charge in the area. Both Positive and Negative levels will be added for the level effect.

Streaks Feature:
At the end of using Streaks, there will be a short period of time where won't discharge your Static Charge, giving you time to move afterwards.
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    This is just an idea I have to address to the demand of increase for the Forlorn Martyr. If someone doesn't understand it speak up, and someone who knows, could they summarize it in a way that they could know? This is the best way I could go about describing it. Anyways, if you have ideas to add on or improve it, please give input.

    Less usage of "It would be unbalanced," would be nice, but if you have input, back it up with reason, logic, and fact. And I don't want to see "it can't be done," by anyone other than DarnYak. Have a problem with my approach, or what I do in general, or in otherwords have beef with me? Use a PM to steam your contempt, not here. Pretty much just don't post anything that's not constructive criticism.

Posting the text in 10 different colours doesn't make your points any stronger.

i dont think the need to move around should become a main feature of the martyr

To Discombobulator:
    I wasn't using colors to make "points stronger." Where you would get an idea like that is beyond me. My intention with the colors was to help seperate concepts, making them easier to read. I don't like to do things out of Flash, I'm typically an objective person, I don't care too much for aesthetics, so don't get the wrong idea. -_-

To Furion:
    Unless the hero is tanky, ALL melee heros have to micro and move around to be more effective. Forlorn Martyr, isn't tanky and is one of those heros, more or less it will be a bonus for using your hero as normal. Not only do you have move around a lot as a non-tank melee hero, there's also the distance you need to travel to get to where the armies collide, giving you the ability to enter with a strong strike. Forlorn Martyr was built as a "harrasser class," though it may not have been intented as that, but it's just how it ended up, so may as well just improve the class' strength. If you want to run more than you need to, to build extra damage, if you even can get up to the next level buff, that's the user choice. With the change of innate, and doing what you normally do, it will be better than the original.

    To sum it up short, Forlorn Martyr and all other light weight melee fighters main feature is running around a lot, may as well induldge it.

Hes the only lightweight melee in EotA.

And if you think that moving / positioning is so important you shouldnt loose the charge to a footman. Actually if you watch units hp you shouldnt lose it to any unit. And being forced to move around even if you are on the max charge level is not exactly good.

    If I remember right, Mystic Swashbuckler too, is a light weight melee fighter. The light weight melee rule applies to almost all games that you need to move around a lot and micro to be effective.

The second part... Well reword, because I'm not exactly sure on what you're trying to get at.

Old innate: You move until your charge is max and can then stay in back rows, relaxing a bit.

Your innate: You have to move all the time, walking useless circles until the enemy is in a position that allows you to strike and you have no time to get distracted by for example family members or to relax your finger, causing not only to break your finger but also getting a good damage to the finger muscles that will stop you from playing martyr anylonger.

    You wouldn't necisarly move all the time. Since moving from Point A to the enemy mass, you'll get a charge built up, that should land for a good nuke. And if you want to be the most effective with your hero, old or new innate, you want to use micro, which will already involve moving around. You could easily change it to Clairovoyance, and not change the performance of the class, since the innate doesn't do much as it is. This would be more than anything, opening up more options/ability to micro.

    I should also make mention, if having to push for APS (Actions per Minute) is something you want avoid, don't play real time games, unless you plan on playing single player where you can set difficulty level. Dispite Warcraft III having autocasts and other cussy features Starcraft doesn't, it still demands APS, since manualling everything if done right, will get you superior results.

Later game, swashbuckler has nice hp if you havent noticed that.

I don't think many people want to play a game that they have to keep a hero consistently doing something. What if you want to take a drink? What if you have to take a piss?

jamn455 wrote:Later game, swashbuckler has nice hp if you havent noticed that.

Almost all heros have what they lack later game...

jamn455 wrote:What if you want to take a drink? What if you have to take a piss?

You be not the age of 4, and have some will power

jamn455 wrote:I don't think many people want to play a game that they have to keep a hero consistently doing something.

Most people don't want to have to do the insane things SlayerS_Boxer does, but yet a lot of people play Starcraft's melee. When you "do" something in the game, you're playing the game, so the more you "do" the more you play the game.

If that is all true, then this is the worst innate revamp ever. Warcraft 3 is a game, not a test of your willpower. Why the fuck should I have to keep a hero moving for him to be fully effective?

    Every hero in the game you need to keep on moving and doing actions to be fully effective. It's nothing different, it's just allowing you to push Forlorn Martyr to a higher level. I'm sorry, I guess I keep forgetting I'm talking to a public smashing mind set. Oh, even if you feel like you need to run more than usual, there's "Shifting" to cover that anyways. -_-

    But more than likely the concept of having to push and squeeze to get any hero to be fully effective that the principle is no different, is beyond your understanding. I'll explain it differently via a question. Will you HAVE to push the revampped Forlorn Martyr to full effectiveness to be effective enough?

But why would the FM need 300% more clicking and moving around to be truly effective?

Your logic seems to forget that every other hero doesn't need to move as much as he would. I for one would not click a lot because I don't want to ruin my mouse just yet.

edit: And where's the extra squeeze on the other heroes? Do you want to revamp the IS so he needs to cast his Ice Lance on the ground 500 times before it would do maximum damage to a hero?

    Every hero can do small tasks that can give a tiny edge, that in a normal game would seem pointless. I'm not going into the full detail, watch more Starcraft. -_-

    For the most part, I never stated how far you would have to run to build the highest charge, hell it could be two steps, it could be across the entire map. Or how much the buff would effect abilities. I don't know why I find myself again arguing X values. But as it is right now, you have two jog back and forth for your stupid heal as it is right now, I don't see anyone going to DarnYak saying, "I shouldn't have to run around to get my heal doing nothing behind the army" this would hold that same effect, but that same running around you already do, gives you the heal over time as you do it, gives you move speed for better traveling, and that same built up charge you get to make your abilities more effective as well is discharged at your own discresion, and for the most part, you actually in some way get to make use of that lovely charge that you get to a force with at full health instead of thinking "well, I have to lose health to be able to make use of it, which means losing my charge." It's everything and more than the current.

Also, his move speed would be way too high with the storm spire if they stacked together. He is fast enough with a storm spire with half mana, we dont need it so he goes even faster.

And you said for me to go watch more starcraft, well you have to remember there arent hero based units in starcraft so nothing you say can effectively translate from it.

jamn455 wrote:What if you want to take a drink? What if you have to take a piss?

Patrol?


Well as it is now with the Matyr the innate is quite useless except you are running from one lane to an other (which you would normally do by tping there) and even than it won't heal you a lot.
Also if you don't put a lot of money into your tanking ability you always will have to run around a lot with matyr in early and mid game especially facing a caster hero (at least if you don't want to stay behind your troops and watch them fighting).
I would rather suggest limiting the dmg on attack thing to enemy heroes so you dont always deal like 40 damage to a random archer or sorc.
This would allow you do get a good amount of damage if a hero attacks you rather than something like 100 (which doesn't even harm an early game caster) or you get your heal if you need it.

I am just saying most innates are useless at some points of the game, this one seems more like an ultimate ability than an innate one.

Not really, but even if so. His ultimate is more like a regular skill. So long as it works, there's no reason to be way too traditional. It's a passive modifyer, that can only get stronger with having more run speed. Only abilities will benifit and all, so it's not obsoleting. Flury for the Swashbuckler is kind of similar, boost by physical stats, more attack speed more chance to roll a flury, and when you flury the more attack damage you have the more you will do for a flury, and the more crit chance you have the more crits flury will output.

Well with him, this move would pretty much make him have two of the same moves that do different things. Stormspire would do stuff when he casts a spell and his innate would do more when he casted a spell making him a pretty hard thing to deal with. That compounded with the high movement speed he would have would make him pretty much imbalanced.

    LoL, the speed modifyer doesn't have to exist that it provides for Stormspire. I also never stated what it would be for accumulated level for the move speed attack speed bonus it could be something like accumulated level times .01 is the % bonus you get. Which would be gimpish. Or I guess no bonus at all for Storm Spire, I guess it could do nothing, the move speed bonus it give would be the bonus for Static Charge. Or the bonus could apply only to army.

jamn455 wrote:I am just saying most innates are useless at some points of the game, this one seems more like an ultimate ability than an innate one.

Which innates are useless at some points of the game? Only Aura of Undeath and Eat Tree get a bit useless lategame (eat tree is not that useless but since noone ever plays fugly it doesn't matter anyway).
Also making it not to powerful is a matter of balancing not of the what the skill does.

I am just saying no hero in EotA has a move that can make every one of their skills potentially better.

No hero in the game alternating skills until 1.11. I say it doesn't matter if it's untraditional, if it makes the hero better to be up to par, and is more fun. I don't see why not.