Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

Some of these have me stumped, so here's the current list of heroes that are short talents (not including ud, yet). If you want to make talent suggestions, this is the best thing to focus on =P The first (#) is the number of talents needed. Spell names in () means I plan to change those in the (near?) future, so adding talents for them would be a waste. Ideas posted in the other thread need not be reposted.

Creeps:

• Scarab (1)
• Dread Shaman (1) (-Expunge)

Undead:

• Emberwraith (1)
• High Oracle (1)

DarnYak

Sure Strike (AoO):

Increases the minimum agi damage multiplier by 1.


Haunting Nightmare (Nightmare):

The Nightmares are so terrifying, that the targets tremble just by remembering them, resulting in decreased attack and movement speed after the sleep ended.


Overwhelming Faith (Smite):

Stuns the target for a short amount of time.

Not good at names, but here are some ideas.

For the rune knight a talent causes his innate ability to reverse the effect against enemy towers.

For the shaman, a talent that gives his heal a percent chance to increase the heal by a percentage.

TC:

Something for Degen? % of his damage dealt when the enemy is out of range and the spell cancels? (To make those stupid "it's too weak" cryers shut up)

Another thing I'd like for Degen is crippling... (values also charging up over time)... why? Degen "ages" the target and damages that way... when you grow older, you are weaker and slower... only realistic...

Rune Knight
Rune of Power: Buildings affected by Rune of Fortification gain increased damage and/or attack speed.

Arcane Backlash: Thorns effect on Rune Shell.

I also like jamn's idea for using Rune of Fortification negatively on enemy buildings. I would think at a reduced effect though, as -10 amor and a jar of termites could take down a building in no time at all.

Divine Wizard
Retribution: Vengeance gains increased damage based off of how much mana the Divine Wizard is missing. Max damage from this separate from damage from life loss, and regens mana as well.

Thirst for Magic: Energy Drain drains faster. Same total damage, just in a smaller package.

Energy Burn: Burn some amount of mana based on how much damage is done with Energy Drain.

Divine Flames: Makes Holy Strike have a Flame Strike-like mechanic.

Infiltrator
Hacking Cough: Enemy units have a evocation penalty in Smoke Cloud, or maybe reduce movement speed/agility because they're trying to cough so much.

Assassinate: Grants Critical Strike for a short time after coming out of Blitz.

Cloak of Shadows: There is a % chance when hit the Infiltrator will defensively hide, turning invisible with no speed boost for a short time.

Terrorism: Deal % damage from Sabotage to surrounding units (enemy and allied, but discluding the Infiltrator herself).

Time Cleric
Time Warp: Ebb speeds up allies a little? I just wanted to use that name >_>.

Decay: Can use Degen and/or Echo on Buildings, probably at reduced effect.

Temporal Shock: Stun/Slow on enemies when coming out of Phase.

Also like Hammel's idea of crippling after using Degen.

Scarab
Sandman: % chance of re-entering sleep after coming out (pre-maturely or not). Decreased % for heroes probably. C'mon, it's an awesome name for a Nightmare based skill.

Celestial Blessing: Celestial Restoration also regens some mana or heals allied heroes around the scarab as well.

[no name]: Life Wave heals the Scarab as well.

Divine Protection: Units under Divine Manifestation have +armor and reduced damage from spells.

Dekar's Scarab ideas are good too.

Dread Shaman
Uh, I got nothing here. Sorry .

Infiltrator

Shadowdash - After Malicious Escape, the Infiltrator is made invisible for 2/3/4/5/6 seconds.

Dulling Poison - Malicious Escape gives targets a debuff that reduces their attack damage by 10/20/30/40/50% for 8 seconds.

Divine Wizard

Scar Mana - Enemy units that are hit by Spellshift have their maximum mana reduced by 100/200/300 for 30 seconds.

Fire Mastery - Golems summoned by Spellshift are more powerful and last longer.

Rune Knight

Seal of Cleansing - If target target is Stunned while under the effects of Siphon Glyph, they are purged and receive 10+.3str/20+.6str/30+.9str/40+1.2str/50+1.5str damage.

Time Cleric

Atrophy - Enemy units hit by Expire are slowed by 10/20/30% if not under the effects of Ebb. Otherwise, they receive a 15/25/35% penalty to attack damage for 12 seconds.

Time Tunnel - Summoned units hit by Expire are removed from the game for 24/16/8 seconds. When they return, they are under the control of the Time Cleric.

More to come.

Erm, reborn, the (-spell) mean DONT use it =P Because thsoe are all getting revamped or completely replaced.

Interestingly, you hit part of the revamp exactly on malicious escape ;P

DarnYak

Funny, I thought you meant that spell in particular My mistake. I'll keep them there for now. In case you, or anyone else, runs out of ideas.

Divine Wizard

Piety - Empower causes enemy units in the radius to have their spell and attack damage reduced.

Infiltrator

Foundation Crumble - Sabotage permanently reduces the armour of the target building by a small amount.

Time Cleric

Fading Magic - Under the effect of Rapid Healing all buffs/debuffs have a reduced duration.

Vortex - Ebb causes units near the center point to be pulled in, immobilising them if hey reach the center. They can still attack and cast spells, but may not move.// Ebb has increased slowing power based on proximity towards the center.

Dread Shaman

Suffering Soul - Shared Pain also causes an amount of mana to be burned from the target anytime time he is damaged by Shared Pain.

Scarab

Force of Faith - Divine Manifestation causes units nearby the hero to be dazed for a short duration.

Miracle - Celestial Restoration causes nearby units to have an increase in armor while it is channeled.

You mean for Rapid Healing to decrease the duration of debuffs on allies, right?

  He needs a talent for DarnYak? Sweet, I suggest "Absolute Jass Profiency," it will remove all memory leaks from the game. ^_^ .v

  Scarab's Healing wave could have a talent that gives positive status inflictions, like temp defense bonus or something. EotA needs more statuses, mang! ^_^ .v

FutatsuNoOmoi wrote: He needs a talent for DarnYak? Sweet, I suggest "Absolute Jass Profiency," it will remove all memory leaks from the game. ^_^ .v

THATS FUNNY! I LOL'D!

rue talent for fear I suggested in chat and you liked it

movespeed change(s)
move faster - say, max move speed during fear, would cause more chaos
move slower - aids in hero killing/chasing, slower hero means more free strikes

either one would be a potentially nice talent to own. you could even add both in, and people could make a slowing rue more compatible with hero killing or a fast rue which would be more disruptive

either that or

both randomly - never can tell how someone will react to fear..! basically this would really just be a variety kind of talent. if you did this you could have a wider range of movespeed changes be balanced (for instance some targets being slowed to, or close to, a standstill, which really would be a bad idea consistently.)

Dispersal: units near Degen's target also take a % of damage.

Same could go for the Soul Binder's nuke.

hello im new

I have played this game with my bro for many years and teached some dota-boys whats the meaning of good game

well I hope my ideas can help you guys cause since I played this game I liked it and I'd like to give my small part on it

Master of the Hunt (2) (Experienced Hunter): Increase the rate of search ability, if a invi unit is found the units is marked for 5 sec (3 in heros) each lvl increases the time for heros.

(2) (Ferocity of the Beast): Everytime he makes his deathblow to a hero, the Master of the Hunt gains attack speed because of the taste of the blood, and maybe lost armor inexchange, besides he can might win some life for hit, lets say 5% or something like during a short time

Arcane Archer (2) (Union): Makes the regeneration of the Nymeria, a part of the AA regeneration. Let me explain, if the Nymeria is healed the AA will be healed too in a small %. In exchange, for each lvl if the Nymeria dies the AA losses even more hp than usual

(2 or 3) (Cold Wall): Makes the Ice wall of the AA frozen the meele attackers, but only the attack speed, and even some small dmg like 5 per hit or something like that, let remember that hit ice with sword would make small pieces of ice splinter and hit the rest of our friends, besides you can make the place dangerous making them fall or something like obviusly they become invu for a moment and dont lost hp but they can stay like that 1 or 2 secs

Well thats all I can think about right now I have some ideas, but for new heros, and others that wont work cause are too imba thanks for everything Darn Yak, you made a wonderful game my only question is.... when will appear a new version for Exodus? with new heros new problems in defending and those things

Infiltrator:
Smoke Stealth - A talent concerning AoO, but really combining the usage of AoO and Smoke Cloud, which is that hero under the effect of Smoke Cloud will recieve extra damage from AoO, 104%, 108%, 112%, 126% ,120% for striking behind, and 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50% for striking in front.

Motor Tech - A talent that gives mines the ability to "unborrow," move, and "reburrow," 15%, 30%, 45%, 60%, 75% move speed (there is a 1sec, .8sec, .6sec, .4sec, .2sec casting time that toggles mines to be able to move, then a 2sec, 1.625sec, 1.25sec, .875sec, .5sec casting time for mines to become invisible and immobile again)

Structural Degradation - And a talent for Sabatoge that lowers the defense of a tower. -5, -10, 14, 17, 18 (This would be good for towers that are hardly hurt) (oops already suggested, well I guess I second the suggestion then, Pheonik's 'Foundation Crumble' Talent)


Time Cleric:
Chrono Slash - A talent that allows Time Cleric to cleave ebbed units, units hit by cleave will recieve 25%, 37.5%, 50%, 62.5%, 75% of Time Cleric's attack damage with a hit range of 10ft.

Rapid Force - A talent that gives Rapid Healing an attack speed increase of 8%, 18.5%, 29%, 39.5%, 50%.

Time Skip - (Voided)A talent that gives Degeneration 32+.5int, 54+.65int, 80+.8int, 110+.1int, 140+.12int minimum damage.(Voided) A talent that that compinsates your missing damage by:
+{ Z(Mx - Ch) -  X(Mx - Ch)cos[(Ct/6)(90)] - Y(Mx - Ch)sin[(Ct/6)(90)]}*
+{.1(Mx - Ch) - .1(Mx - Ch)cos[(Ct/6)(90)] - 0(Mx - Ch)sin[(Ct/6)(90)]}
+{.2(Mx - Ch) - .2(Mx - Ch)cos[(Ct/6)(90)] - 0(Mx - Ch)sin[(Ct/6)(90)]}
+{.3(Mx - Ch) - .3(Mx - Ch)cos[(Ct/6)(90)] - 0(Mx - Ch)sin[(Ct/6)(90)]}
+{.4(Mx - Ch) - .4(Mx - Ch)cos[(Ct/6)(90)] - 0(Mx - Ch)sin[(Ct/6)(90)]}
+{.5(Mx - Ch) - .5(Mx - Ch)cos[(Ct/6)(90)] - 0(Mx - Ch)sin[(Ct/6)(90)]}

(Maximum Damage = Mx) (Charged Damage = Cd) (Charge Time = Ct)

+Z(Mx - Ch) compinsates for damage lost for not fully charging
-X(Mx - Ch)cos[(Ct/6)(90)] is a deduction of the bonus, the longer the charge, the less it will deduct, thus increasing X will lower "early" bonus damage. In specifics it's a decline of a crest curve (beginning to end of 1/4th of a cosine curve's phase[0°-90°]), at 0° is a multiplyer of 1, 45° a multiplyer of ≈.71, and 90° a multiplyer of 0.
-Y(Mx - Ch)sin[(Ct/6)(90)] is a deduction of the bonus, the shorter the charge, the less it will deduct, thus increasing Y will lower "later" bonus damage.In specifics it's an incline of a crest curve (beginning to end of 1/4th of a sine curve's phase[0°-90°]), at 0° is a multiplyer of 0, 45° a multiplyer of ≈.71, and 90° a multiplyer of 1 but since 90° is at duration of a full charge, Mx = Cd, so (Mx - Cd) = 0 the multiplyer of 1 is results in 0.

A basic rule to follow to prevent deductions from causing you to lose damage on degeneration itself for the approximated (calculated assuming the value of 2Z = X + Y) time period of 2.133 seconds and 3.867 seconds. Z must be greater than or equal to the some of X and Y.
(Z ≥ X + Y)

Chrono Distortion - A talent that gives Degeneration a splash damage that does ???%, ???%, ???%, ???%, ???% of degeneration damage with ????, ????, ????, ????, ???? area of effect
-OR-
???%, ???%, ???%, ???%, ???% of Degeneration damage with a ???? area of effect
-OR-
???% of Degeneration damage with ????, ????, ????, ????, ???? area of effect.

Deja Vu - When echo is started, the location of that hero at that time is marked, and when that hero moves ??? feet, that hero has ???%, ???%, ???%, ???%, ???% chance to be warped back to the marked location, and if hero isn't warped back, then the location the roll was made is marked, so on and so forth.
-OR-
Deja Vu (Crude) - A talent that slows unit under the effects of echo ???%, ???%, ???%, ???%, ???%.


Scarab:
Dream Eater - A talent that returns 2%, 4.5%, 7%, 9.5%, 12% health for the damage nightmare deals.

Hammer of Justice - A talent that allows smite to also removes 30% mana, and removes a minimum of 100, 125, 150, 175, 200 mana of target.


Shaman:
Totem Proficiency - A talent that allows Shaman to have 2, 3, 4 ,5, 6 totems at once.


Emberwraith:
Deformation - A talent that Cauterize has a 15%, 32.5%, 50%, 67.5%, 85% chance to renew buffs with negative "dummy buffs" that last longer than Cauterize's cooldown. (Stack or unstackable, unknown)

Accelerant - A talent that gives Pyroclasm a minimum damage of ????, ????, ????, ????, ????

Dirty Fuel - A talent that decreases the effect of moving with Smolder and increases the rate that smoke stacks.

Tehw00tz wrote:You mean for Rapid Healing to decrease the duration of debuffs on allies, right?

That aswell.

Are the talents needed numbers in the first post up to date?


@perhaps

Dont bother posting numbers/different levels of a talent or multiple versions of the same talent ( Chrono Distortion ), the numbers will get changed most possibly anyway by Yak who will use numbers he thinks of as fitting.

    Well, I got complaints for being "too vague." So now, I'm putting in approximated numbers. Just pretend they're variables. -_-

Just for the record, I meant what you said in the general idea was vague, not the numbers.

Emberwraith

Scorching Flare - Units hit by the Flare will have their eyes burned by the scorching mist, what will reduce theyr vision/agi/speed/dmg (choose either combination of them)

Pyroclastic Flow/Surge - Following the explosion, a wand consisting out of ash and gas, drives out knocking away and suffocating everything in its path.
That would knock away units and slow them down because they cant breath, additionally they get burned
found a video regarding this phenomenon http://www.maniacworld.com/erupting-volcano.htm

Emberwraith:

Smog - Enemies inside Smolder/Enkindle will have a chance to miss and slowly take damage. Effect increased when in Enkindle mode.

Sorrow Liege:

Legacy - Unlocks more aura's with Forlorn Crown.

Fortress - Adds a Planet Cracker(vertical beam that does alot of damage to units and buildings right below the center of the caster) weapon to the Shadow Bastion.

Man, I really hate to see Dread Shaman lose his Expunge. It had a lot of uses, from dispeling friends or foes, to simply being used as a snare. It is a rip of purge one could say, but I really like it.

The totems definitely needs a talent associated with them. Two obvious ones are:
Allow more than 1 totem in play at once (of different types), called Elemental Mastery. (Already stated by someone)

or

another Elemental Mastery that decreases the cooldown of all totems by 10%/20%/30%/40%/50% perhaps. This would let you earthbind snare more often, more fire nova, cleansing more as needed, and so on.

or

You could have something that toughens up the totems, so they dont get 1 shotted. This kinda goes against WoW philosophy, but maybe add 150/300/500 HPs to all totem drops. It would let you use totems more offensively, closer to the front lines without ranged heros taking them out so easily. (So they are more like the Ice Spider dude's statue of zapping)

randomd00d wrote:Man, I really hate to see Dread Shaman lose his Expunge. It had a lot of uses, from dispeling friends or foes, to simply being used as a snare. It is a rip of purge one could say, but I really like it.

Water totem and earthbind were both suppose to somewhat replace the role of expunge. Water is probably fine as is, and earthbind might get buffed once expunge is removed (it's lower then intended purely because of expunge being there already). The dispel aspect of the purge is also problematic becuase its not exactly buff friendly, especialy when he has shared pain.

That said, expunge being so good is part of the reason its been hard to replace. I generaly dont like seeing heroes that aren't overpowered downgraded by spell replacements

You could have something that toughens up the totems, so they dont get 1 shotted.

This should probably be the default, now that I added a simple way to inflate unit hps with aberration.

DarnYak

Ok, I got a replacement for Expunge...... FROSSHAWK!




Thats right! Expunge is very versatile, but is mainly used as a disable.


Frost Shock would fill two key roles that Dread Shaman really needs:

First, a direct damage nuke because Shaman has practically no offensive spell power.
Also, Shaman needs a snare other than earthbind.


Frost shock would have the exact same move debuff as Expunge, except instead of dispelling, it does direct damage based on INT.

A talent for it would be FrostBite: -X% attack speed for Y seconds when hit by Frost shock.