How to Help Starters!

[Shadow.M4L]

I was inspired by a thread and though we should make a thread here. So it looks organized Oo
Anyways lets get started!

Lets find some good ways to teach a starter the game without telling him by yourself how to do everything!

I would say a "Help" command that will show a list of different options like "1.Obelisk".
Then the player typs 1 and the Cam will scroll over his hero and give a message like:
This item in your inventory is a Free Reciepe its given to you everygame and you can convert it into a Tiny Obelisk Control Tower.

Then it scrolls over the Altar:
Move the item into the altar and press Temper, once that is done give the item the hero again.

Then it will scroll near to an "friendly obelisk"

Place your mini tower now near a obelisk, but keep in mind you only need 1 tower to control a obelisk. Also you cant take other obelisk, first you need to destroy their respective tower.

Well yeah, thats a good example i think^^

[Hammel]

Why would they ever enter -help? They dont want to learn, they want to feel like they are the greatest already. So we need to force them. And since a cinematic doesnt help (see Exo), they've got to DO it by themselves...

So I say there is a tutorial mode one player can activate (no vote, the beginners would skip it), and then everyone is brought to a tut area where they need to build an obelisk, upgrade an item (maybe with the real item, and they are returned it at the start of the real game), and to teleport. When they don't do it, the game doesnt start, so they are forced to do it.

Since some might still be too stupid, there is a public list of people who have finished the tut (and more so, who haven't). Then the other players can help them so that the game finally starts. In case someone is afk or still too ignorant, there should be a kick possibility after like 2 mins.

[Shadow.M4L]

Well lets say so:
When people still got their scroll, instead of Noob should appear something like this:

You seem to be new in the game type -help to see a list of usefull informations.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Well lets say so:
When people still got their scroll, instead of Noob should appear something like this:

You seem to be new in the game type -help to see a list of usefull informations.

The problem with the Noob thing is that it's very easy to miss in a hectic battle. It would be a lot more obvious if it constantly hovered above their hero and was flashing in a seizure-inducing fashion.

[FutatsuNoOmoi]

Considering there's people who can't find their way to the Quest Log, I can't say there is any hope for them beyond that. Well, they can be helped, in this sense they're a diamonique in the rough, more work than what they're worth. ^_^

[LordSuzaku]

I'll be harsh and skeptical. I highly doubt more than 40% of battle.net (optimistic) is capable of playing EotA. First of all, a bit that takes time like a movie or tutorial will be skipped because people dislike waiting. Second, people need information thrown in their faces to read it. The quest log is ignored, and the scroll is hardly ever read. Lastly, would you honestly want people with DotA level bravado coming to play EotA? If access to EotA is limited to smart people, we can have our moderately civil games. Rather than games full of internet grammar and constant swearing.

How I train newbs: I make friends with the host, and personally attempt to train them. This is slow and inefficient but the best I can do.

[Emufarmers]

I would like to help people learn the map by bringing more attention to it outside of individual games. If people hear about the map and come it with the instructions to try it in singleplayer, then the ones who might actually have what it takes will try it in singleplayer.

[LordSuzaku]

Thats an excellent idea. The bots function well, all that needs to be done is create some sort of tutorial funtion and have a popup at the end of games saying to try it out in singlesplayer for a tutorial. That would collect the people that like EotA, have patience, and have the initiave to try it.

[Shadow.M4L]

Having public with people till the end? Woahw, that is realy rare. And often it only happen if theyre on the winning team.
Out of 10 games i have maybe 1 where the loosing team does not leave.

[Kibiyama]

I like the singleplayer tutorial idea. I'm not sure how successful this would be; I've never heard of that being done before (which may or may not be an argument against it, actually ) though it's not like it would change the multiplayer, so why not?

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is one of the things I realized by criticizing the role of obelisks. They are important enough that getting them matters, but not so important that they are the end objective, so because they are stuck in that limbo, new players aren't aware of them and should be. If they were less important, it wouldn't matter that they were unaware, and if they were more important (maybe prominent is a better word) it would be hard to be unaware.

[Hammel]

OT:
UMM... obs are the main objective, and getting/holding them is what the game is about... and when the enemy has more than you, you've got a problem if you cannot take them back/get own ones... and you will most likely lose if you dont make it.

If you dont believe me, watch the replay mian uploaded somewhere (False appearance of depth?), it shows what happens when a team gets +4 and holds it...

So most good strategies evolve around getting and holding obs most efficiently, and if the enemy's strategy was better, you need to think about how to get their obs down... what I want to say is that obs are the ultimate, most important aspect in the game... when you say people and their skill are more important, skill includes tactic, and tactic's main part is obs.

(Of course sometimes you are just so dominating that you raise base after base and noone can stop you, but then it would be easy for you to get/keep/erase obs, so I wont count that)


Back to topic: why dont we use a tutorial area in multiplayer, as I mentioned? ~~ Of course the good players would be pissed since they know it, but that is the most effective and direct way to make beginners get the gameplay...

Or... I know there hasnt ever been a loading screen, but IF we/Yak implemented one, it could tell people the basics... I think dota also used that to tell players new aspects of the game, and it obviously works (to a degree). Since they cannot skip it, and dont have anything else to do apart from waiting, many new players would read it... hopefully.

[Kibiyama]

A loading screen is probably a good way of doing it. It also has the nice side-effect of keeping illiterates out, so, *bonus*.

It should probably present obs very firmly as the number one goal to achieve victory, and give a little primer on your altar. y/n?

As for obs, I know how important obs are, but the new player doesn't have a clue about their existence, which is huge when you're saying they are the ultimate, most important aspect of the game. It feels like we're trying to cram a round peg person into a square hole EotA, when EotA could be changed to a round hole itself. It is possible to make a game deep and accessible at the same time, we'd just have to figure out how. The loading screen is a good solve that would bypass even having to change the way the game works -- perhaps there's room for innovation on bnet after all, so long as you set them off in the right direction -- but I can't help thinking about the road not taken.

[BLUEPOWERVAN]

Don't think a loading screen is a bad idea, but otherwise... nobody is going to play a single-player tutorial... hell you already have a single player tutorial if people want to go through all that effort (just play against comps and read the quest text).

Things need to be more transparent without more effort. Greater notification. In "illusion of depth" thread I posted a lot of newbie-help suggestions. A ping and some text when an obelisk is under attack would give greater notification. I mean, in addition to the "allied town is under attack" message (which is constantly happening and ignorable). Adding a ping and some notification obelisk specific would help underscore the importance of obelisk. Perhaps something for a friendly obelisk being completed as well (if just text here to cut down on pings). I think notifications would underscore the true importance of the events.

It would detract from the penalty/rewards of map awareness, but I don't think eota is so shallow that it needs undue emphasis on map awareness.

[DarnYak]

IMO, the primary issue with the tooltips is it provides information when you dont need it and aren't looking for it, and even if you are its a little too hard to notice. A better test display (somehow) combined with making more tooltips a little intelligent (ie, "Hey you have crystal! Here's how to use it") wouldn't hurt.

DarnYak

[Hammel]

EDIT: It was past 5am -.-

[DarnYak]

Crystal is given by a Trigger, right?

If player got =>30 crystal and got code, do:
-Play sound: OHH MY GOD SOMETHING HAPPENS (needs to be imported ^^)
-show help-text: Hey, you got =>30 crystal, why dont you use it in your altar?

Thanks, I had no idea how to make the trigger I suggested without you.

DarnYak

[mianmian]

Don't think a loading screen is a bad idea

While this would help, please no one of my favorite things about Eota, is thats its like the one map on BNet where I can see whos loading, and who isnt so for the love of god please no loading screen. (unless you do it like NotD:Aftermath where its both, not sure how they did it)

[Shadow.M4L]

Crystal is given by a Trigger, right?

If player got =>30 crystal and got code, do:
-Play sound: OHH MY GOD SOMETHING HAPPENS (needs to be imported ^^)
-show help-text: Hey, you got =>30 crystal, why dont you use it in your altar?

Thanks, I had no idea how to make the trigger I suggested without you.

DarnYak

Ilold

[Strychnyne]

I honestly think that we need a loading screen. Knowing who has downloaded doesn't give you any useful information. You can't make them go faster and you'll most likely see them lagging over DarnYak's avatar anyways.

The most frequently asked questions are "How do I get Crystal," "Wtf?" (In regards to AoO), and something to do with Obelisks/Spawns. Those require a one sentence answer usually, but they usually ask it after it's too late. If you could say that you get crystal from killing heroes, you need to read the instructions on your scroll or you WILL lose, the -obelisk command, and where to get builders, that would be awesome.

I think you need tiered hints. Once they upgrade their scroll, ping the obelisks and give them the -obelisk command. Once they place, ping the halls and do a brief run down of builders function. Once they build another obelisk, bring their attention to spawn towers, or, if they build a spawn tower, explain to them how cores work and that they aren't free towers, pinging the obelisks again.

For the tutorial you could link all those together in a visual cinematic that does a quick fly by. The current cinematic is out-dated and has been since the other maps have come in to play. No one watches it, not even people who are curious because there is always at least one person who doesn't want to watch it. Either a vote, a quiz, or a host option. If they think people need to see it, they just click yes, and BAM! People learn SOMETHING. It wouldn't be too long or stunning, but going over those few basics would be an amazing change. It could be after the map is picked, giving a different one for each, highlighting their different options. The tips would be disabled based on codes I guess, like they are now.

[Shadow.M4L]

Good and simple you could enchant this idea further but it seems to be a nice simple way.

[Emufarmers]

For the tutorial you could link all those together in a visual cinematic that does a quick fly by. The current cinematic is out-dated and has been since the other maps have come in to play. No one watches it, not even people who are curious because there is always at least one person who doesn't want to watch it. Either a vote, a quiz, or a host option. If they think people need to see it, they just click yes, and BAM! People learn SOMETHING. It wouldn't be too long or stunning, but going over those few basics would be an amazing change. It could be after the map is picked, giving a different one for each, highlighting their different options. The tips would be disabled based on codes I guess, like they are now.

What if players had the option of selecting "newbie" at the start, and it would show them this video tutorial and then give them a random hero while everybody else is choosing heroes? The hero selection time is probably long enough to fit in a quick overview, and this would stop it from being an everybody-or-nobody thing.

[Hammel]

"Hey, look at how much I own in DotA, I am no newbie, gbye tut..."

Bad idea, you've got to to use force to get peolpe to their luck.

[DarnYak]

It would probably help if we had a list of things that are vital to be explained to new players. My list offhand would be:

- Item Upgrades
- Speical Map features (ie Obelisks)
- Porting
- Teir 2/3 halls for healing
- Hero upgrades/talents
- Workers for repairing and towers

Generators are another option, but one i'd prefer to leave out for now (less then happy with their current balancing). Any others?

DarnYak

[Emufarmers]

"Hey, look at how much I own in DotA, I am no newbie, gbye tut..."

Bad idea, you've got to to use force to get peolpe to their luck.

Fair enough: How about giving a chance to load codes for a few extra seconds beforehand, and then everybody who doesn't watches the tutorial? Of course, that might be going too far...

[Strychnyne]

Love it Emu. That time is always wasted anyways. Unless it's an IH, it goes down fast. Though I wouldn't call it Newbie perse, I love the idea. I don't really agree with you Ham, I think the average person will click that if they need to. Put in something on the option that tells them it'll teach, not just point and laugh.

Yak, I'd add Cores, unless you meant that in Special Features. Maybe a quick note about AI taking over for leavers, if that ever happens.