There needs to be a disadvantage to flying.

Message

Demongod86 · #1 Post by **Demongod86** » July 9th, 2007, 7:32 pm

Okay, I'm frankly fed up with flying heroes. I know this sounds like a stupid rant, but I know most of us have probably at one point or another seen "Must target a ground unit."

In my opinion, that is simply retarded. By simple virtue of your hero pick, you are suddenly immune to so many different skills? I know for certain that flying heroes are absolutely immune to the infiltrator, and I am not sure against who else.

I have asked myself: "So what is the innate drawback to choosing a flying hero to balance out the innate advantages?"

Answer? There is none. NONE. Flying heroes are just like any other in EotA--except with immunity to half the spells in the game, and are also absolutely unhindered by terrain in any scenario.

Now, since Yak is implementing what he calls "talents" in the next version, it could be solved on a case-by-case basis to allow the shortchanged heroes to have a "talent" against flying heroes that would temporarily give them an auto-win window, when they're at an auto-lose situation otherwise.

But if no such solution exists, this is what I propose:

Solution 1:

Wind razors: magical blades that tear apart the wings of any flying creature, dealing 500 damage to it, stunning it for 4 seconds, and bringing it to the ground to be attacked as though it were a land unit. 200 gold per charge, 20 second cooldown.

Solution 2:

I propose that any flying unit be automatically acquired by all computer controlled units that could attack it if it comes within their attack range. So if that garg goes to try and scoop you up, every single drake, scorpion, trickster, etc... will instantly aggro it.

Also, under this solution, trapping nets and spider nets will work for 6 units on flying heroes.

#2 Post by **Tehw00tz** » July 9th, 2007, 9:22 pm

I stopped fucking reading after "frankly I'm fed up with flying heroes." Get over yourself and go back to playing EC, nobody here wants to hear about how in Enimity Campaign you can net for 10 seconds. Nobody wants to read shit about how you can't fucking deal with a flying hero.
I'll quote my 8th grade math teacher here,"I don't want you to get out, God wants you to get out."

#3 Post by **Emufarmers** » July 9th, 2007, 11:25 pm

How about just having flying heroes with stats and abilities that take into account their movement capabilities? I don't see the need for a "flier nerf."

Discombobulator · #4 Post by **Discombobulator** » July 10th, 2007, 1:45 am

I stopped at "this is a stupid rant".

#5 Post by **Tehw00tz** » July 10th, 2007, 2:06 am

After seeing how far Disco got into the post I tried my best and I skimmed through the first suggestion.

Solution 1:

Wind razors: magical blades that tear apart the wings of any flying creature, dealing 500 damage to it, stunning it for 4 seconds, and bringing it to the ground to be attacked as though it were a land unit. 200 gold per charge, 20 second cooldown.

That combined with a simple nuke would kill a level 1 Harpy, so your spending 200 to get a free 400 and exp, that's even more dumb than half the suggestions I have.

Shadow.M4L · #6 Post by **Shadow.M4L** » July 10th, 2007, 2:23 am

Whats this enmitityityity campaign anway? I never heard of it and iam active on wc3c thehelper and some other big developer sites.

I also check daily the battle.net but i never saw it.

#7 Post by **Tehw00tz** » July 10th, 2007, 2:26 am

If memory serves it was a kinda boring class based AoS, you needed to be a certain class to use an item.

Demongod86 · #8 Post by **Demongod86** » July 10th, 2007, 10:27 am

You're playing the EC after it went to complete shit. http://www.epicwar.com, and play 73a.

That was the peak of Enmity Campaign's fun.

(Just don't pick the hellshade--he lags like hell).

And to noobs, yes, it is a boring class-based aos. To good players, they can even kill their counterclass on a regular basis.

Dekar · #9 Post by **Dekar** » July 10th, 2007, 10:43 am

Or you take berserker and own everything.

Or you buy Spellbook and own everything without mass dispel.

Demongod86 · #10 Post by **Demongod86** » July 10th, 2007, 10:50 am

Berserker is like an SA. He only owns when you don't know how to play against him. Quite a few heroes trashed berserker quite hard, especially because his farming is pretty worthless.

Spellbook didn't get broken till .78, and that's when a lot of other stuff started to suck. In 73a, it was pretty fine, considering what else you could get for the gold.

Pheonick · #11 Post by **Pheonick** » July 10th, 2007, 3:19 pm

I played enmity a bit. Was not one of the more enjoyable experiences I've had. On several versions.

Demongod86 · #12 Post by **Demongod86** » July 10th, 2007, 3:38 pm

Were you good at it? Because it was definitely fun when you're good.

#13 Post by **Tehw00tz** » July 10th, 2007, 4:13 pm

I would say the same about EotA, which is deffinately your case.

Pheonick · #14 Post by **Pheonick** » July 10th, 2007, 4:49 pm

I can do AoS maps. I've been doing them since the beginning of WC3 so I'd like to think i can be at least basically good. But even so I found Enmity generally unbalanced. Admittedsly it had good ideas, but I still ended up hating it as much as AoM, THoT and another one I shall not mention as the name and acronym burn my lips. As for ToB I'm just extremely bored of it.

Demongod86 · #15 Post by **Demongod86** » July 10th, 2007, 5:36 pm

Tehw00tz wrote:I would say the same about EotA, which is deffinately your case.

No, you see, if I wasn't good at EotA, I'd just stick around playing pubs and would have a blast killing everyone with Serra Noobslayer. It's *because* I'm good at EotA that I've become disenchanted when I see the only way people play in inhouses.

It's also the same way with DotA. The more you learn, the less there is to learn, and before enmity went down the drain because it "wasn't what the creator originally envisioned it as", at the top level, there were multitudes of strategies that you could mix and match, and never really be set to any one style of play, because it largely depended on what you were up against.

In EotA, this is not the case. It's not fun knowing what's going to happen and then losing because you had the worse of the pubs on your team because you couldn't get a full inhouse.

Mills · #16 Post by **Mills** » July 10th, 2007, 5:40 pm

Demongod86 wrote:It's *because* I'm good at EotA that I've become disenchanted when I see the only way people play in inhouses.

Stopped reading here, how about you guys?

#17 Post by **Tehw00tz** » July 10th, 2007, 6:17 pm

You beat me ToX, I stopped after

No, you see, if I wasn't good at EotA,

jamn455 · #18 Post by **jamn455** » July 10th, 2007, 8:01 pm

Demongod86 wrote:
Tehw00tz wrote:I would say the same about EotA, which is deffinately your case.

I stopped right there since I know if you have to quote w00tz on something you are clearly a fucking dumbass(no offense w00tz).

Remember you were that shitty little pub who sucked, well you are still that shitty little pub who sucks.

Why dont you try winning games using a support hero, why dont you try using an intelligence build on an infiltrator and killing stuff with mines. Why would you ever think of doing something different when you can just say hey this is kinda gay lets use this all of the time. Honestly myself, I got tired of using the same agility build on the harpy, so i just decided hey lets let her innately high attack speed help me kill creeps when I get an orb of fury to be a creep destroyer and hero killer. Oh but you wouldnt think of something smart like that would you. Its much easier to just swoop in and get kills why try something fun.

Demongod86 · #19 Post by **Demongod86** » July 10th, 2007, 8:35 pm

Jamn, I beat you to the punch. I always go with sorc robes/orb of skill on infilt.

I go sorc robe on RK too and play him as a caster that can absorb boatloads of damage rather than a charge-in tank.

My contention is with anything without a sum of zero. Fliers are not zero-sum heroes. Their innate flying gives them a strict advantage over other types of heroes, without having some disadvantage that they get only because they fly.

And guys, if you think I stink, is that why I hold my own in every inhouse and throw down with the best of them?

I may bitch, but I have the skills to back it up, which is more than I can say for you guys that I haven't even ever seen play.

And also, this is a forum, a place where people post DIFFERING opinions. Now if you people want to slob on Yak's knob the whole time, go ahead and be my guest. Nothing personally against Yak, but I'll let his map do the talking for him, and ATM, it's not exactly at a high point. He claims that if anything is overpowered or overused, he'd change it, but so did Tekkvicious, and Enmity Campaign devolved to a point that I play an older version.

So if you want to cry foul on anyone with a differing opinion, GL HF even finding a EotA game aside from when the same 10 people are on for inhouses.

The fact is this: you may curse DotA all you want, but it's getting played. And part of the reason is that if you set up this "we are right, you are wrong" attitude, you're not going to get more players.

It doesn't matter how good a map is if nobody plays it. I've played it at the pub level, and now that I've played inhouse, I can't go back, because what the hell's the point?

#20 Post by **Tehw00tz** » July 10th, 2007, 9:03 pm

I stopped right there since I know if you have to quote w00tz on something you are clearly a fucking dumbass(no offense w00tz).

None taken

Demongod86 wrote: The fact is this: you may curse DotA all you want, but it's getting played. And part of the reason is that if you set up this "we are right, you are wrong" attitude, you're not going to get more players.

It doesn't matter how good a map is if nobody plays it. I've played it at the pub level, and now that I've played inhouse, I can't go back, because what the hell's the point?

When'd DotA come into the "you suck at EotA" arguement?

Demongod86 · #21 Post by **Demongod86** » July 10th, 2007, 9:27 pm

I suck? At least I play in the inhouses, which is more than I can say for you. I've yet to even see you play.

jamn455 · #22 Post by **jamn455** » July 10th, 2007, 10:54 pm

I don't play because I have nothing to prove to dumbshits like you. You act like you are good or something. I will fear you when you are better than ToX, until then just be quiet you peon.

Shadow.M4L · #23 Post by **Shadow.M4L** » July 10th, 2007, 11:41 pm

Jamn, i got a brilliant idea.

You and all other people will give him respect if he beats you in a Eota 1on1.
Sounds good doesnt it?

Ahh yeah a defeat condition, you can do with him whatever you want and Jak wont look

Discombobulator · #24 Post by **Discombobulator** » July 11th, 2007, 7:42 am

Flying heroes are balanced.

They would suck if they weren't flying.

Hammel · #25 Post by **Hammel** » July 11th, 2007, 8:18 am

Harpy can be nuked to hell SO easily without Orb of Life for HPs... But if you take Orb of Life, you cannot go for Orb of Fury (for farming/dmg) or Orb of Skill (Swoop dmg, which is needed)... so either you die or you dont kill stuff, kind of a difficult decision...

Plight is just too slow too be really efficient, and he's got some mana problems, I think (dont play him and didnt see him played due to holidays), to make up for it, he needs Int/mana items... makes less str/agi items, and that takes the power out of his nukes...
Btw, try out TC with degen... TC is a tank and can heal herself --> nuking her is inefficient, and since Plight is so slow, he can harly escape Degen...

OHH, and the funniest disadvage of flying heroes is, when you net/web them over unpassable terrain (esp. cliffs), they are pulled to the place of the caster... easy work for a dmg-Tact against an agi harp...for example...