Gargoyle totally imbalanced now

[Shadow.M4L]

First off, i havent played the gargoyle much yet. Iam also not a good flying hero user. And i play most of the time agains people with some skill.
So my overall overwiev is, that i see the Gargoyle as not that hard.

God... what an ironic.
He is whining that the Talisman makes the Infi impossible to play and totally useless but demands an item that will make an hero die within 10 seconds.

Also you never balance games with pubbies, that stupid. Blizzard doesnt do that and every other good map doesnt do that. Maybe dota but we know that this map sucks.

Isnt the net idea stupid? I mean he can just activate his innitate and he is free again. If that spell is based on "Mirror Image" then it should set him free.

Also fighting an Flying hero with a hero that cant counter flying heros is not the smartest idea. Switch lanes with someone who can kill the Gargoyle.
Not every hero should be able to counter everyone. Thats called teamwork.

Jak Should make this spell point based so you can evade it. I played for fun last time with a friend, and it wasnt easy to hit someone without targeting the hero.

[Tehw00tz]

Not 10 second stun, 10 second immobilize--which would also let AoO trigger fully.

According to some people I suck horribly and I can still do it

Once again, if you haven't seen a game with plight owning face, just go to any pubby where it's a relatively even match and watch plight own face. Between the terrasmash/ravenous dive combo to player kill and aberration to turn aboms into LOLmonsters

First off, thats a lot of skill points and crystal points to spend to keep all those skills relatively useful, and not to mention if you want Hell Fury to be useful your going to have to put some money into Magician's Robes, intelligence rings, evoc gloves and/or crystal staff (it also damages friends)

and hell fury as a sort of wannabe grand rune

It's a wannabe Heaven's Wrath.

the only thing possibly lacking about plight is that his stonebeam skill is very lacking compared to all of his other WTFLOLIMBA skills.

I like Stonebeam, it's nice for freezing the archer class waves while the melee can go unhidered by banshee beams or whatever you want to call them.

And while there are some heroes with better straight up aoe damage, terrasmash is also a setup into a very easy pick up with ravenous dive due to the slow.

For AoE I'd deffinately take Divine Wizard or Ice Spinner over Plight

I'm not sure any other hero in EotA currently has a "thunderclap" aoe ability, which is what terrasmash more or less is.

Earthbro or Blackguard may have one.

This whole rant is just beating a dead horse, we get it, Plight can fly and magical nets which automatically pull him to the ground after you target him do not give you enough time to get an instantly-castable move off.
(It helps to hold down shift and then cast the spells, it will go off in the order you use them, also hotkeys are very useful)

I'm still surprised there was only two people besides myself to complain about Shimmer.

[DarnYak]

It's a wannabe Heaven's Wrath.

Actualy, its stats are copied straight from Heaven's Wrath. So its just a red Heaven's Wrath. You may say "but it doesnt feel the same"...for which I have no good explination. I've checked the old versions and there shouldn't be a notiable difference, but ican't say it doesnt' seem quite like I remembered it.

DarnYak

[Tehw00tz]

It made the Divine Wizard feel.. right... It went with him perfectly, Holy Strikes, Heaven's Wrath... It just fit him and I don't quite like it on Plight for some reason :/

[Fierach]

I agree with Wootz there.

[Demongod86]

First off, i havent played the gargoyle much yet. Iam also not a good flying hero user. And i play most of the time agains people with some skill.
So my overall overwiev is, that i see the Gargoyle as not that hard.

God... what an ironic.
He is whining that the Talisman makes the Infi impossible to play and totally useless but demands an item that will make an hero die within 10 seconds.

Also you never balance games with pubbies, that stupid. Blizzard doesnt do that and every other good map doesnt do that. Maybe dota but we know that this map sucks.

Isnt the net idea stupid? I mean he can just activate his innitate and he is free again. If that spell is based on "Mirror Image" then it should set him free.

Also fighting an Flying hero with a hero that cant counter flying heros is not the smartest idea. Switch lanes with someone who can kill the Gargoyle.
Not every hero should be able to counter everyone. Thats called teamwork.

Jak Should make this spell point based so you can evade it. I played for fun last time with a friend, and it wasnt easy to hit someone without targeting the hero.

I don't know why that mass illusion item is there though I'm not so sure mirror image dispels ensnare-type abilities...or you can just make it uncastable while in net. Pretty easy to do.

Not every hero can counter everyone? Are you dense? Have you been hit in the head? THERE ARE 10 OR LESS HEROES PER SIDE. If you are IMMUNE to some of them, that's RIDICULOUS. One hero should NOT invalidate several heroes!

The fact is, he's a flying and ranged RK/reaver/gravel/scarab. Those tank heroes don't fly for a DAMN good reason. Imagine if RK could fly and had a ranged attack. GL HF EVER making him go below 50% HP. I don't know why people are so adamant about defending the fact that garg can pick up heroes like gravel and rune knight under *any* circumstances, or why a STRENGTH AND FLYING hero still has a RANGED attack so he can sit BEHIND THE MELEES AND AVOID FOCUS FIRE TO HIS TONS OF HP.

Seriously, what DOESN'T he have going for him?

A 10 second net would be absolutely justified in taking down this otherwise UNKILLABLE hero.

Flying+str+ranged attack = WTF?! Come on...how is it that the only ranged strength hero FLIES?! Raqnged+str should practically NEVER be used on the same hero.

Heck, worst to worst, if you want to play garg as a team player and forget about trying to dive pickup people, you can always just SPAM ABERRATION ON ABOMINATIONS. Give him a half decent team there and oops, nothing you can do about 5300 HP 250 damage abominations!

Come on...why the heck are people defending this hero? He's the no-brainer first pick of any UD team, and if he isn't, there's something wrong there.

[Shadow.M4L]

Ok your last post proved youre not ready for the internet.

[Demongod86]

Sorry if there's no italicslock key. It's easier to hit the capslock than it is to type [ /i] every time.

[Dekar]

Enmity has a net vs air. It holds them for 10 seconds. Doesnt it also have an item, survival knife or something, that removes every net effect of you?

[Demongod86]

The nets in EC last for 4 seconds. The escape knife takes 1 second to activate. By the time you reach down and click that thing and by the time it takes effect, you're probably dead anyway.

[Tehw00tz]

I agree fully with shadow

[Something]

The nets in EC last for 4 seconds. The escape knife takes 1 second to activate. By the time you reach down and click that thing and by the time it takes effect, you're probably dead anyway.

Uhh.. Items have hotkeys..

Numpad on the right goes as follows to the hero inventory:

78
45
12

Pretty basic really, and if hitting the numpad on the right gets old for you, you can just buy a seperate numpad, and set it on the left. Also, you CAN remap keys, if you really wanted, and other alternatives to make using the inventory easier. Really though, I'm used to it, except, I hate using it when I need it on the fly, but I can do it.

[Demongod86]

You can't remap item hotkeys.

[BLUEPOWERVAN]

You can remap your mouse buttons to hit numpad keys though (which I do)

[Strychnyne]

Okay. I just played against a garg that knew how to exploit it. Some things need to be changed.

The aquisition range on Dive is way too big. I dodge out of the way, and it STILL gets me. I wasn't touched by any part of the hero, and I got "caught."

The cool downs on both the dives are too low. You can combo them over and over... Really too low.

Aberation[sic] isn't that bad unless he plants them all over the map, to lead the charge and add armor everywhere.

He may be hard to kill, but that's not that big of a deal because he doesn't do much of anything.

[mianmian]

It's a wannabe Heaven's Wrath.

Like Yak said its the exact same skill, he beat me to it

Ok, Abberation isnt as bad as people make it out to be, in all honesty, maybe it could be dispellable? (is taht possible?) The worst Ive ever seen it was when it was used on Sea Elementals and Sludges

Ok, I have played games with people as Plight and 1 Candle game took me and Wootz an age to win VS IS (others were leavers :p )

So, you see he can be countered :p

But he does need some retuning, Dive is the main problem from my point of view, its does ridiculous amounts of damage when your carrying the hero ( mostly from spawns attacking and shit but still)

Terra Smash I really dont have a problem with, especially compared to other AoE moves already in Eota.

Stonegaze is worthless compared to his other skills, I personally love it, but in all honesty its not worth getting atm :p

[Emufarmers]

Okay. I just played against a garg that knew how to exploit it. Some things need to be changed.

The aquisition range on Dive is way too big. I dodge out of the way, and it STILL gets me. I wasn't touched by any part of the hero, and I got "caught."

It only happened once! Or twice.

Ok, Abberation isnt as bad as people make it out to be, in all honesty, maybe it could be dispellable? (is taht possible?) The worst Ive ever seen it was when it was used on Sea Elementals and Sludges

It would kind of suck if it were dispellable; just make it so that you can only use it on units controlled by your AI army.

[DarnYak]

Dude.

I picked up GRAVEL one game with him.

And the Collossus wasn't outleveled or anything.

When I can do that, you know something is wrong.

Ok, I meant to address this the other day, but I got distracted and just now remembered.

Gravel: 25 str + 2.7/level
Plight: 23 str + 2.15/level

DarnYak

[Fierach]

Since Terra Smash deals full damage to buildings.
I reccomend that the building damage of that skill be slighttly reduced. Its just too easy to take down a building and any enemy creeps near it with a single skill.

Dive and Abberration, I think enough has been said on those points.
Stonegaze looks cool though. I personally got it a few times and I just say its a extremely neat skill. Will need to use it a few more times in games to get a real estimation though.

@DarnYak. Does Gravel have one of the highest strength growth in the game? Because Plight looks pretty close.

[Pheonick]

A quick question.

Is aberration being fixed in the next version or is it to be removed?

I for one would like to see a return of magic shield, but changed to make it more useful. I (typically) have thought up a revamped system based on the Starcraft2 units Immortal's Hard Shield mechanism. With tweaks here and there. I could throw up a quick thread on the hero idea forums if the idea appeals.

I believe I've seen several promises of a fix, but i still feel uneasy about this ability on the Ascendant.

edit - I'm putting the idea up anyway.

[DarnYak]

Is aberration being fixed in the next version or is it to be removed?

Currently its not going anywhere. I haven't thrown out Energy Shield as a basic idea (it may return as a talent or as a spell replacement), but on Plight it was just bad, largely due to it being far too close to Stonegaze in terms of effect.

But it IS getting fixed. The free heal on units that dont get upgraded isn't intended....I'm not sure how it's balance is outside that heal becuase the heal throws everything off. Maybe if I can get some feedback from people who dont exploit the heal =P

@DarnYak. Does Gravel have one of the highest strength growth in the game? Because Plight looks pretty close.

Highest, yes. Most Str/tank heroes are around 2.5, most Agi fighters are around 1.9, most casters are around 1.5, and the super frail ones are like 1.2.

DarnYak

[Quadratic]

Just make his starting str 14 and reduce str gain to 1 per level, and reduce range to melee.

Also, make nets work 10 seconds against flying heroes.

Furthermore, disallow aberration to be used on anything but ghoul banshee or necro.

First off, 14 strength and ONE per level? Are you out of your mind? Him without items would be pathetic. Think of it, a level 30 melee hero with 44 strength AND nets last TEN seconds on him, oh and his only would be redeeming skill would take your crystal/item focus off strength to agility. Oh and btw having his strength that low at level one makes him start with 280 hp (gaining 20 hp per level), effectively making him as useful in battle as a hemophiliac in a scissor factory.

This guy isn't THAT powerful.

Multiple heroes get low strength ratings. As of the moment, a garg with orb of life + knight's armor = invulnerable.

After "enjoying" a round where a rather unscrupulous player, IMO, stacked 6 STR rings and got them to +5 with the cheese-machine in question, and getting killed again and again... I'd say either nerf rings or nerf him.

*gently pats nerf bat*

[Seig_2]

Demongod and mainmain r right, ascendant is too op. mianmain ur just plain wrong dude, plight will rape infil at ANY lvl. peroid. no backstab=owned.
just how it goes man, dont know were u came to the conclusion that she could ever take acendant, truth is she cant. at any lvl.

[jamn455]

Don't revive dead posts dude, its not cool.

[Soulbourne]

Hmm, so start repeats of old topics, with a few well placed quotes?