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#1 Post by **DarnYak** » May 28th, 2007, 4:50 pm

Go nuts.

DarnYak

mianmian · #2 Post by **mianmian** » May 28th, 2007, 4:55 pm

Rue is still overpowered

-Mortal Strike did somehting like 600damage+ at leevl 18-21, too much,
-Rue is still kinda fast

Hammel · #3 Post by **Hammel** » May 28th, 2007, 4:55 pm

Disease imba.

Martyr imba? Or at least very strong.

Some Neph combos, still (imo) Execution, Blastwave, Shred, Swipe, dunno, Execution... just get some mana and strenth (for Exec, Shred, Swipe dmg)

Flank... ~~ discussed in channel, maybe I can give some pro/con later, when you want it.

Fire Lord:

Enkindle... 40hp/s + items + standard on level 6 ~~ Aero, units and towers spiked me, I didnt feel anything till AA came -.-

Pyroclasm: 688 dmg with +5 str item (Knights armor) and a FEW str. ups... too strong, compare it to Gale, for example... Gale needs TONS of stuff to deal that damage... and Pyroclasm's AoE is way more useful imho...

Dekar · #4 Post by **Dekar** » May 28th, 2007, 5:59 pm

Rues ulti fort makes you imba slow if you try to get inside. As slow as the fort itself what leads to minutes you have to wait till you enter the fort -> you cant use it to evade grandrunde for example. Also enemy heroes like BP and RK can hide under it and cast their ultis.

Dekar · #5 Post by **Dekar** » May 29th, 2007, 10:04 am

Martyrs banish skill deals too much damage on attack, you can take down a MG with 2 uses.
His thunderstrike has a looong range, already 50% aoe miss and silence on level 1 and far too many lightnings if cast on a building.

Dawnbringer · #6 Post by **Dawnbringer** » May 29th, 2007, 1:17 pm

High Oracle's befuddle slows way too much...and being able to keep 2 heroes crawling until I run out of mana would look fun for me,not for the victims.

Nephilim combos are far too strong.Execute can also "lock" people until death or recasted starting at level 1.Also,his pyroclasm (that fireball thing from his ultimate) has potential to rape a base in 30 seconds with heroes and spawns defending,if not less.

Sorrow Liege base move speed might be too fast.And to top it off he has Aura of Celerity.I suggest you nerf his movespeed,his other skills seem fine.

Forlorn Martyr's banish attack move HURTS.Hurts so much I sulked in the corner until the house flooded.

Dekar · #7 Post by **Dekar** » May 29th, 2007, 3:22 pm

Martyrs banish skill:

http://mitglied.lycos.de/dekar666/thiso ... banish.jpg

Too bad I didnt had my +25% dmg ward out that also grants 100% faster attack/move (if there is no cap on it, but i think its 50% max) as it had 1600+ mana.
600 magic damage ( best int / evocation equip + lvl 50 + most int ups ) + 20% illusion damage + 66% banish bonus?

The banish slows so much that there is no escape. You dont even need nets. And you have streak to suprise / catch them too.

This guy is (AM + INF)².

Dawnbringer · #8 Post by **Dawnbringer** » May 29th, 2007, 6:39 pm

This should be enough to tell you why nephilim needs a nerf.

mianmian · #9 Post by **mianmian** » May 29th, 2007, 6:51 pm

rofl Dek, you found that the Staff Images do damage too

Ya thats imba

nerf Rue to hell

kktx

de-cross · #10 Post by **de-cross** » May 30th, 2007, 12:33 pm

Neph
-Scortch shouldn't hit buildings for 100%(or even at all)
-Pyrocasmn (or whatever the new name for it is) same
-Blastwave same
-Retaliate same
-Swipe same

Oh and just because I just noticed it: In the hero selection screen the tooltip for the Gargs illusion says "fort" at some point I think it should be "for".

Hammel · #11 Post by **Hammel** » June 1st, 2007, 11:32 am

What about Oracle's Nemesis Avatars? 1700 life, 128 Feedback, 341 dmg Riposte, permanent availability of dispells from level one on (due to low CD)... sounds "strong"... You may argue that they need to stand still to hit, but you can easily get like 6 of them and with Befuzzle, you can surround anyone with them (they are faster than most heroes anyways)... and with Healing Salves, you can heal them easily...

Ohh, btw, I forgot magic immunity... my bad...

Idea: Why dont you change half the feedback damage to normal magic attack damage? Then it would at least be absorbed by armor...

de-cross · #12 Post by **de-cross** » June 2nd, 2007, 8:55 am

Garg:-Why does energy shield has a cap? do AoE's have a cap?
-Hell's Fury needs reduced damage to buildings

#13 Post by **DarnYak** » June 2nd, 2007, 11:03 am

de-cross wrote:Garg:-Why does energy shield has a cap? do AoE's have a cap?

I haven't gotten there yet is all ;P

DarnYak

Hammel · #14 Post by **Hammel** » June 2nd, 2007, 1:29 pm

Not really a balance issue, but corpse traps seeing invis units is... annoying, for example when you want to secretly sneak into a base with Flank and towers start attacking your units ~~ so I request a change on that...

Dawnbringer · #15 Post by **Dawnbringer** » June 3rd, 2007, 4:21 pm

Ascendent needs a buff somehow...he just doesn't pack a big punch like the other heroes.He pales in comparison to most for his skills. EG: Magic Shield. It's only 400 bonus hp,while Rune Knight gives plenty more.

Nephilim has the power and stuff,too much to be exact.And all the more troublesome is that he has NO cooldown whatsoever.I suggest adding cooldowns for at least his Mystery of Power moveset.Like,just being able to use one of them and then all of them needs to be on cooldown.He's just too much when you can easily just spam spells until armageddon (or in this case,pyroclasm).

#16 Post by **DarnYak** » June 3rd, 2007, 10:58 pm

Dawnbringer wrote:Ascendent needs a buff somehow...he just doesn't pack a big punch like the other heroes.He pales in comparison to most for his skills. EG: Magic Shield. It's only 400 bonus hp,while Rune Knight gives plenty more.

Energy Shield is an expirement of sorts, designed to test the effectiveness of protecting spawns from aoe nukes. Rune Shell only protects heroes.

Admittedly, its a pretty damn boring spell.

And what the fuck was ithinkng when i gave level 6 befuddle 70% movement reduction?

DarnYak

#17 Post by **Tehw00tz** » June 4th, 2007, 12:49 am

This test... Needs more... Cowbell..

Dawnbringer · #18 Post by **Dawnbringer** » June 4th, 2007, 9:16 pm

DarnYak wrote:
And what the fuck was ithinkng when i gave level 6 befuddle 70% movement reduction?

DarnYak

Wouldn't we all want to know?Anyways,Plight needs a little more damage output power,I find it really hard to kill stuff with him.

Hammel · #19 Post by **Hammel** » June 5th, 2007, 8:16 am

I've never really played him, but doesnt he have 3 nukes? Terra Smash(Damage/Slow), Ravenous Dive (Damage, Heal) and Hell's Fury (wiping whole mobs)... sounds like enough to me... when you mean hero-damage: there are other heroes who are just as bad or possibly worse...

#20 Post by **DarnYak** » June 5th, 2007, 9:06 am

Improving Plight and Incarnation are the two main things i'm doing with the time left between now and weekend release.

Undecided if i'll be having a test9 or not yet.

DarnYak

Dawnbringer · #21 Post by **Dawnbringer** » June 5th, 2007, 3:30 pm

Hammel wrote:I've never really played him, but doesnt he have 3 nukes? Terra Smash(Damage/Slow), Ravenous Dive (Damage, Heal) and Hell's Fury (wiping whole mobs)... sounds like enough to me... when you mean hero-damage: there are other heroes who are just as bad or possibly worse...

Terra Smash: hardly does ANY damage...only reason you would use it would be the slow,and it doesn't really help that much either.The fact that you'd have to fly all the way towards them means you'll be taking damage until you get it casted.And even when casting he is still quite vulnerable.And after you cast it,usually you'd be half dead compared to them just losing about 100 hp.Ravenous Dive doesn't compensate for the damage they already did to you.

Ravenous Dive: being next to them to do full potential damage isn't a nice thing.The heal just compensates for what hp he loses getting there.Usually he'd lose more than he gains.

Hell's Fury: animation looks nice,but the fact that it needs to be dead on hit to actually damage stuff isn't.Sure it does have a lot of potential damage,it doesn't actually do that much since the lightning's hit zones are so small.

Edit: The hero damage that is worst than him are support heroes without direct nukes...the only one I could think of is Dread Shaman.

de-cross · #22 Post by **de-cross** » June 6th, 2007, 11:27 am

Dawnbringer wrote:
Hammel wrote:I've never really played him, but doesnt he have 3 nukes? Terra Smash(Damage/Slow), Ravenous Dive (Damage, Heal) and Hell's Fury (wiping whole mobs)... sounds like enough to me... when you mean hero-damage: there are other heroes who are just as bad or possibly worse...
Terra Smash: hardly does ANY damage...only reason you would use it would be the slow,and it doesn't really help that much either.The fact that you'd have to fly all the way towards them means you'll be taking damage until you get it casted.And even when casting he is still quite vulnerable.And after you cast it,usually you'd be half dead compared to them just losing about 100 hp.Ravenous Dive doesn't compensate for the damage they already did to you.

Ravenous Dive: being next to them to do full potential damage isn't a nice thing.The heal just compensates for what hp he loses getting there.Usually he'd lose more than he gains.

Hell's Fury: animation looks nice,but the fact that it needs to be dead on hit to actually damage stuff isn't.Sure it does have a lot of potential damage,it doesn't actually do that much since the lightning's hit zones are so small.

Edit: The hero damage that is worst than him are support heroes without direct nukes...the only one I could think of is Dread Shaman.

#2(especially on hell furys hit zones...)

But Ravenous Dive is just for the heal imo to be charged into larger groups of creeps

And imo is the whole concept of Stone Gaze a joke but maybe others will find a use in it =P

I think I've already posted a comment on the Spell Damage shield, so the only thing I've got to say that the concept of a flying tank hero seems strange but I think thats intended =P

And I don't know why you posted posted "improving Incarnation". My only problem with the hero is that I don't know what to skill because all basic skills are next to equally good.
But I still comment on them.

Rend Soul seems fine except that I don't really have the time to combo it with his innate because I always have to use it for his buff.

Holding Spell: seems fine

Dark Altar: best heal spell atm and you know that the others aren't weak =P
needs a cap imo and it should heal around the altar if the lich is too far away

Remorsless: imo the way it scales is strange from 5%chance on 2times damage for 40 seconds(+5% overall damage?) to 30% chance for 3 times damage for 90 seconds (+60%damage)
i.e. from sucky to wtfimba I think it should be better at the first levels and weaker at the last ones

The Ult: Well I usually don't skill it because the points are better used @ the others skills but seems fine :x maybe a buff in someway but dunno

Oh and If I had a wish I would use it to reduce the cooldown of the Mark but that should only be a wish because of balance reasons =P

Edit: And two things for the matyr:
-His lightning balls spells should be castable on air
-His etheral spell should be fully working on air.

mianmian · #23 Post by **mianmian** » June 6th, 2007, 2:09 pm

Dread shaman has great DPS potential... if you stack +damage items, thats the only way he can, since 1 shot = 3 hits, and with totems he can CC heroes and shit.

#24 Post by **Tehw00tz** » June 6th, 2007, 2:47 pm

Dread Shaman+ Knights Armor+ Orb of Life+ Excution's Hood+ Shared Pain= gg

#25 Post by **DarnYak** » June 6th, 2007, 5:59 pm

I've got to say that the concept of a flying tank hero seems strange but I think thats intended =P

He's not intended to be a flying tank. At least, not a tank in the defensive sense of the word. He is however a flying stone creature, so he's by nature pretty damn bulky, and his abilities are suppose to reflect that.

And imo is the whole concept of Stone Gaze a joke but maybe others will find a use in it =P

Everytime i'm garg I'm playing with this spell to try and get it right. I'd actualy say its one of the most multi purpose spells in the game. Its a heal, a hero interrupt, a way to remove large amounts of enemy spawns from a fight for a time, a way to protect an allied hero (espeicaly with the new change), a way to buy time for cooldowns, a way to protect spawns from some aoe's, and occationaly can be used to make a wall (or even trap a hero between units).

The primary problem with the spell is its broken in test8 (stuck at level 1) so its most useful aspect, healing, doesnt work out. Now that i've fixed it, I feel this spell has become very well rounded and a viable option for support. I'm also planning to have it fade if aunit gets full health, so it wontbe removing friendlies from combat that dont need to be.

It also has considerable overlap with Energy Shield. Both effectively accomplish similar things. This isn't to say both spells completely suck (ok, energy shield had crappy numbers originally), but both on one hero is crap. I'm more likely to replace Energy Shield atm, IF i can find a better idea (Energy Shield was the result of being unable to find a differnt spell in the first place)

Ravenous Dive: being next to them to do full potential damage isn't a nice thing.The heal just compensates for what hp he loses getting there.Usually he'd lose more than he gains.

I like the spell, but I dont dissagree that this is a pretty major issue I'm trying to come up with a solution for. Doesn't help that the spawns with anti air tend to automaticly retarget you as a result of using it, or you end up inside tower range and get shot to death.

The other problem with this spell is it really doesn't have a proper place on this hero. I didn't want it to become Swoop 2.0, but at the same time it doesn't really accomplissh antyhing that terra smash doesn't already do (although, admittedly, the two together basicly give him a full scale nuke, just in 2 parts)

Terra Smash: hardly does ANY damage...only reason you would use it would be the slow,and it doesn't really help that much either.The fact that you'd have to fly all the way towards them means you'll be taking damage until you get it casted.And even when casting he is still quite vulnerable.And after you cast it,usually you'd be half dead compared to them just losing about 100 hp.Ravenous Dive doesn't compensate for the damage they already did to you.

Animation has been sped up, so they should now be debuffed more or less the instant you're in their attack range. Don't know if it's enough yet.

Damage will likely be increased some, but its not meant tobe a full power nuke due to the debuff.

And I don't know why you posted posted "improving Incarnation". My only problem with the hero is that I don't know what to skill because all basic skills are next to equally good.

At the moment, its not so much about raw power as it is options. He's pretty damn good at fighting other heroes. Less so at doing anything as far as i can tell. Fixing his buff at lower levels, as you pointed out, may help. Fixing his ult will help. I just want to expand his other roles a little bit outside of hero killing.

DarnYak