Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

Go nuts.

DarnYak

Garg:
Stone Gaze cast range needs to be increased imo, seems to be only 1/3 of the actual range.
Would also be useful if it would only give 75% dmg and magic reduce instead of invulnerability.



The swoop thing deals less than 80 dmg on lvl 6 with lvl 35+, less than 200 dmg per unit i guess but heals an extreme amount. Damage doubled and heal quartered ( and a higher starting heal % ) would be better.

Not only balance comments but here are my thoughts about the things that have come to my mind :o (I probably missed a bunch =P)

UD
Sorrow:
-mortal strike deals way to much damage especially because
-he has too much str
-he has too much movespeed
-=> that and so many stay alive skills result in him being twice as hard to kill as the rune knight(auras+summons that soak up damage + Fear around him so he can't be surrounded)
-Aura of Decrblabla (the one who decreases damage) decreases the damage of Towers
-Too long duration for fear (?)

Defiler:
-the "turn around" speed is too low (annoying as hell to play)
-Devouring Plague deals 1% at all level
-Pestilence damage is too low->increase damage + instead doing 75%/100% damage when jumping it should deal 100/125% + change it to evocation
-blight has a rather low AoE but more damage then bane's ultimate

Neph
"W" Skills:
-Retaliate=bugged
-Swipe=Doesn't feels usefull especially because it's in the same group as pysrocasm
-plunder=I don't like how it dispelled your tournement winner buff but exepct that it's fine =P
-Shred= only nuke with good damage
-Distract=fine

"E"Skills:
-Blastwave=too much slow + as much AoE damage as some of his nukes
-Flame Gate=does it's range increase by lvl?
-Scorch=damage feels too low to be usefull(compared to like shred or shadowveil)
-mirage= doesn't works for humans but works for computers?
-scinticale=fine but uses the same buff as Close Wounds

"R"Skills:
-Dusklash=same as scorch
-Black Globe=fine
-Shadowveil=fine
-Evasion=60% evasion that can permanently be casted?
-Spellblind=6 sec silence with that AoE is far too good

"C"Skills:
-Vamp. Bite=doesn't feels usefull at all
-pain=about as much damage as other nukes but with a 2 sec stun?
-life tab= <3
-Close Wounds=too bad healing and uses the same buff as scintilicate(or however it's spelled)
-Adrenaline= too much movement speed buff imo that + blastwave gives the enemys no way to escape

"T"Skills:
-Void Draw=fine
-Pyrocasmn=needs like reduced damage on buildings+invul units shouldn't be hit + less damage overall but the anmount of flames should stay the same imo
-Execute=deals no damage atm but maybe doesn't needs to anyway?
-Berayal=fine
-Immortal Breath=the name fits perfect the heal makes you immortal²

Incarnation:
-Avartar tooltip doesn't shows duration
-Got killed by mana flare when casting avartar =(
-Dark Altar needs a healing cap
-rend deals too much damage
-what about mark of the reaper bonoses to Remorsless(even more crit when attacking the unit?) and Gravebind (silence along the disabled ability to move?)

High Oracle
-heal got nerfed already so I don't have to put that here =P
-befuddles tooltip says it's has a (W) hotkey but it's (C)
-nemesis souls don't have to be twice as good as the basic ones oO


Gargoyle
-Ravenous dive doesn't deals enough damage but heals too much
-the cooldown of hells fury feels longer then those of the other ultimates
-Hells fury lightning strikes doesn't have enough splash especially for that cooldown
-why is there a unit cap on enemy shield? it prevents only a little more then 1 nuke
-LOVE the voice^^
-Stonegaze's healing=bugged

Elven
-BP=fotd needs a cap
-DW=holy strike is too strong
-Aero=fine? maybe more cast range on mealstorm but I don't play her so don't kow
-AA=fine?
-TC=fine? (can you still port out of it's(this is on purpose not her) initial skill?)
-Swash=didn't played him enough
-RK=execpt that I still didn't got the meaning of syphon glyph he's rather fine
-inf=fine?
-SB=fine? maybe increase the range of the decoy's lvl6 tele (1500 is a joke imo)
-Tact=fine?

Creeps
-Tree=-taunting treant needs a use
-Revive should give mana based on the int of the revived one back
-Gravel=crumble is not worth getting over other skills (mana cost/use wise)
-scarab=fine?
-bane=not tested yet since he got buffed but I hope he's not a joke anymore =P (but I guess the damage of his ult is... compare it to Blight!)
-wolf=lunge damage feels too low
-AM=fine?
-Shaman=fine?
-Dryad=fine? (the nerf on the casting range of tangleweed wasn't really needed but I don't care about that =P)
-Hag=-wtf is the meaning of blade rain?(except people saying "LOLOLOLL I r teh uber ROXXxxx0r INT harp LOLOLROFLLOLOL") you have to go into meele range to channel it where you can be hit like all the time
-swoop's damage is FAR too low when casted at close range...
-backslash tooltip is wrong: "When they attempt to cast a spell" should be "When they finished casting a spell"
-Spider=more or less fine (frost spire could do more damage at the start and less damage in the end so the overall damage is the same because certain other heroes have instant AoE nukes that deal as much damage as this one)

Items
-cooldown of black dragon heart is waaay too long
-blink sticks got overnerfed²

Sooo was that nuts enough? :)

de-cross wrote:-mortal strike deals way to much damage especially because
-he has too much str
-he has too much movespeed

God damnit Cross, stop ruining my fun of having no items and yet two hit an RK

de-cross wrote:-=> that and so many stay alive skills result in him being twice as hard to kill as the rune knight(auras+summons that soak up damage + Fear around him so he can't be surrounded)

Out of the two auras I bothered to use (AoE damage and move speed) they seemed rather good
Also do I have to recast the aura every time I level it up for it to use the higher leveled one?

de-cross wrote:Defiler:
-the "turn around" speed is too low (annoying as hell to play)

Infil's needs food on the UD side too

de-cross wrote:-Dark Altar needs a healing cap

ALGEBRAIC! (Don't understand? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNVYWJOEy9A) Anyways, this can safely be called the new 1.08 FotD

de-cross wrote:High Oracle
-heal got nerfed already so I don't have to put that here =P

I'll complain after the nerf

de-cross wrote:-BP=fotd needs a cap

Nerf FotD? Nowai²

de-cross wrote:-DW=holy strike is too strong

In my opinion nerfing every other AoE spell in the game again would be the way to go

de-cross wrote:-AA=fine?

I would still prefer more, if not complete control, over the familiar

de-cross wrote:-Swash=didn't played him enough

If he is on par with his unbuffed version I say nerf him, otherwise he should be renamed from Mystic Swashbuckler to Allah

de-cross wrote:-RK=execpt that I still didn't got the meaning of syphon glyph he's rather fine

Rune Shield doesn't prevent enough lololololol

de-cross wrote:-inf=fine?

I think either a shorter duration or longer cooldown on Blitz is needed

de-cross wrote:-SB=fine? maybe increase the range of the decoy's lvl6 tele (1500 is a joke imo)

I don't care if it can be abused, make Decoy how it used to be

de-cross wrote:-Tact=fine?

Yak could play a decent Tact, she's fine

de-cross wrote:-bane=not tested yet since he got buffed but I hope he's not a joke anymore =P (but I guess the damage of his ult is... compare it to Blight!)

I wouldn't mind a slightly smalle model and collision size

de-cross wrote:-wolf=lunge damage feels too low

Since Fenris can't do much besides hero kill, you might as well make his nuke worth maxing

de-cross wrote:-Dryad=fine? (the nerf on the casting range of tangleweed wasn't really needed but I don't care about that =P)

Who cares about Tangleweed, why the hell was Gale nerfed?

de-cross wrote:-Hag=-wtf is the meaning of blade rain?(except people saying "LOLOLOLL I r teh uber ROXXxxx0r INT harp LOLOLROFLLOLOL") you have to go into meele range to channel it where you can be hit like all the time

I believe the correct terminology is "ROFLOLMAO I R TEH UBER ROX0R HAX0R HARPZ0R"

de-cross wrote:-swoop's damage is FAR too low when casted at close range...

Under 100 damage is fine, we wouldn't want a skill to outclass normal attacks would we?

de-cross wrote:-Spider=more or less fine (frost spire could do more damage at the start and less damage in the end so the overall damage is the same because certain other heroes have instant AoE nukes that deal as much damage as this one)

Siege is about to kill you, he hates playing useless heroes

de-cross wrote:-blink sticks got overnerfed

If properly timed you might be able to jump ahead of a hero or even over a tree!

Anyways... I think if a bunch of people who aren't complete morons would gather in a channel and talked about this without any interference from those who are complete morons, alot more might be accomplished than just posting on forums.

ToXiK wrote: Rune Shield doesn't prevent enough lololololol

lies

ToXiK wrote: I think either a shorter duration or longer cooldown on Blitz is needed

That talisman which has 20 mana cost 0 cooldown reveal > inf anyway =P so let her be the pub ownage hero

ToXiK wrote: I wouldn't mind a slightly smalle model and collision size

#2

ToXiK wrote: Who cares about Tangleweed, why the hell was Gale nerfed?

maybe thats why?

ToXiK wrote: In my opinion nerfing every other AoE spell in the game again would be the way to go

ToXiK wrote: I believe the correct terminology is "ROFLOLMAO I R TEH UBER ROX0R HAX0R HARPZ0R"

damnit you got me =/

ToXiK wrote: Siege is about to kill you, he hates playing useless heroes

Well
1) I'm prepared with even more useless heroes! So Siege has no chance.
2)These informations are based on 1.10 IS but I just noticed this

DarnYak wrote: -Ice Lance int bonus reduced for the damage over time portion
-Frost Spire cooldown increased to 21 seconds from 18, mana cost increased

dumdidumdidum

ToXiK wrote: Anyways... I think if a bunch of people who aren't complete morons would gather in a channel and talked about this without any interference from those who are complete morons, alot more might be accomplished than just posting on forums.

You do know where the problem is, don't you? :)

Some more random stuff:

RK = Seems fine at the moment, although you might just want to nerf rune shell a bit to lower the amount of complaints

BP = I still don't see why High Elves can have a portable healing fountain that takes a full level dispel to kill, also backfire still seems fairly useless and outclassed by his other skills

Swasy = Completely destroys any hero late game through his ability to catch up to anyone (while doing nice amounts of line damage) and pull off alot of high damage crits, not to mention the length of his mass disable.

DW = You've seen my suggestion in the PM, also Holy Strike needs it's overdue nerf

Infiltrator = I'm sure you've seen what I have said about Blitz, may just be me but I would like to see AoO buffed (either more damage or have it less random) because Infil is literally completly useless against skilled players

Dryad = I would enjoy seeing Gale unnerfed, there is a reason for that by the way

AM = Mind fog still seems a bit overpowered, especially on the smaller 1-2 lane maps

IS = The only way IS could be worse if it was considered a summon unit, this way dispells would own it even more

Harpy = Remove the evasion and make flying count as the innate, or at least reduce it from 20%

Obelisks = You already know what I think about them

Talisman of the Sun = Absurd

Helm of the Champion = Is this even an item?

Tin Crown/Pigtails/Sticker = Make them do something

Rings = Only allow 2 rings maximum in inventory

Reveal Talisman = Increase cost in either the gold or mana

Poison Sekletons = DoT is way to much

Potion of Invisibility = Remove it

There are reasons to about all of them, just ask if you don't see it >>

ToXiK wrote:Anyways... I think if a bunch of people who aren't complete morons would gather in a channel and talked about this without any interference from those who are complete morons, alot more might be accomplished than just posting on forums.

Glad to see these comments, was going to do the main rebalancing of UD today, this gives me a nice checklist since I agree with most of them already.

And sorry Tox, I know you want obs fixed but that's not going to happen this version. Feel free to harrass me for later versions becuase its not unlikely i'll forget and get distracted by other things, but fixing them IS important.

-nemesis souls don't have to be twice as good as the basic ones oO

I originaly thoguht this too, however I came to realize if they were inferior then merging them for most intents and purposes is harmful to you. If someone can convince me they'd still be beneficial without having full combined stats, i'll be happy to nerf them.

Also do I have to recast the aura every time I level it up for it to use the higher leveled one?

Don't need to recast. In general, if its a buff or summon, it takes the level at cast time. If its a passive effect, it auto levels. Channeling spells follow no specific pattern.

Devouring Plague deals 1% at all level

Intended. The duration/cooldown increases, so at maximum level you can be draining 2 or 3 heroes at a time., or not recast it as often, or have it continue to eat away at them for quite a while after they retreat. And yes, it can kill.

-Stonegaze's healing=bugged

Need info

DarnYak

DarnYak wrote:

-Stonegaze's healing=bugged

Need info

DarnYak

I didn't noticed any improving in the regeneration of the units.

Some comments on the changes you made:

Upcoming Version changes wrote:

• Incarnation
  • Casting Remorseless on a unit under Mark of the Reaper will allow it to buff all units in range

I know I wanted remorseless syncing with Mark of the Reaper...
But +90% damage for all units in the Area is just wrong.

Upcoming Version changes wrote:

• Divine Wizard
  • Vengeance is now considered a Deathblow
    Added a secondary magic attack
    Vengeance damage healed reduced to 30% of damage dealt, from 50%
    Energy Drain cooldown increased to 28 seconds from 12

No Nerf for Holy Strike?
And I don't know why exactly you nerfed Energy Drain. I didn't skilled it before and doubt I will now.

Oh btw I won't be there for test8.

And because I'm too lazy to post in the other thread
-creeps vs ud on stormwail with -allheroes => fps never dropped below 20

de-cross wrote:No Nerf for Holy Strike?
And I don't know why exactly you nerfed Energy Drain. I didn't skilled it before and doubt I will now.

First, I'm not done with general balance tweaks yet, or even ud balance tweaks.

Second, talking with Tox gave me the impression that the big problem with HS was that energy drain weakened things up for HS to kill (assuming hs wouldnt just 1 shot them), while providing enough mana to keep chaining them non stop, possibly also refilling the mana used for empower.

Third, i was going to nerf it, but in comparision to other spells it wasn't significantly stronger. Obviously, he has empower to use with it, but nerfing it to the point that its balanced around having empower means you MUST take both HS and Empower to make it worthwhile. That's something I actively attempt to design away from. So I'm unsure how else i could nerf it at this point, and its AoE size already got nerfed in this version (although its not in the notes, so maybe it was in 1.10?)

DarnYak

DarnYak wrote: Second, talking with Tox gave me the impression that the big problem with HS was that energy drain weakened things up for HS to kill (assuming hs wouldnt just 1 shot them), while providing enough mana to keep chaining them non stop, possibly also refilling the mana used for empower.

I always skill ED for exactly these reasons.