My Criticism

[xmusicfreakx]

Alright, first of all I just want to say good job on this map, and I really appreciate all the work put into it. And I also want so say that EotA is my most-played AoS. =]

Now, I have a few suggestions that would actually make me want to play this make online. These are suggestions for the next big release (version 2? 1.5?), so don't try to put them into 1.11 or anything. Here we go...


First of all, I like the idea of several maps, but the lag caused by the huge map size is HORRIBLE. It's impossible to play. That's my main concern, and I think you should stick to one map (maaaybe two). That's my main complaint.

Another thing (and another big cause of lag) is the numerous amount of creeps. Why are there so many per wave? With so many critters running around, it's not a surprise that the map is so laggy. Also, it's really annoying to not be able to find your hero when you have swarms of furbogs and footmen around you. And it's also annoying when they surround you and you can't move. XD



Well I have to do homework, and I can't think of anything right now, but I'll add a couple more little things in a couple days when I have time. Thanks for listening! =D


EDIT: w00t member #100! yayuh!

[Tehw00tz]

All I can say is, get a better comp or internet connection. I get no lag from playing EotA.(Except for my frequent disconnects which have nothing to do with the map)

[Hammel]

No need for a new comp, more RAM should do well enough...

Connection has nearly no effect on lag, as long as some downloads don't use 99% of the bandwidth. Also musicfreak plays SP where his connection can't make it lag... am I right?

The amount of spawnies is linked to the number of lanes and the fact that there are different spawnies for each side... also is decreases the effectiveness of DotA's last-hitting, putting more focus on general strategy (just as spawn tower units dont give any gold/exp at all).

The different maps are a feature Yak spent loads of time on (and the main new aspect of 1.10 as I recall), I "guess" they wont be removed... in 1.11 Yak even added another one

Apart from that, 1.11 will be the last major version, adding talents and Undead. 1.12 will be balancing, and that's it... at least in theory... as it was some months ago... (1.10 has been out for a year now, approximately)

In terms of finding your hero: Hit F1, it helps to select him. And their model differs enough from mortal units... when you dont see enough of the map, try -zoom XXXX (1750 normal, 3000 max)... or better dont, when you suffer from heavy lag already.

-Ham

[xmusicfreakx]

I get barely any lag at all when I'm just playing on the computer, but when I'm stuck playing online with guys that have a super slow connection, I just leave because there's no point.

As for finding my hero, I'm not stupid, I know what F1 does...I'm just saying it's annoying how many creeps there are.

Also musicfreak plays SP where his connection can't make it lag... am I right?

SP?

[Hammel]

SP=Singleplayer.

I have only played multiplayer, and most of the time I experienced no lag... if there was, it was because of the other player's slow computer, not connection. While it might help reducing the amount of spawns, there are some other aspects against it:

-The spawns, spawn towers and towers are quite balanced now, no side can has a major advantage through them (except through amount of spawn towers/enemy bases destroyed)
-Some heroes (Tactician, Blazing Priest, Dread Shaman, Scarab imo, and maybe some others) heavily depend on units... changing them means changing the heroes, and I heavily doubt that will be done...
-some heroes can ONLY be killed when heavily ganged or... surrounded by units... if they can be killed at all.

Apart from that, EotA doesnt need SUCH a good computer for todays standards... mine is pretty old and EotA runs fine... when you dislike lagging people, kindly ask them to leave until they listen to you... or flame them so that they do. When they are on your team and the rest of the team listens, you can ban him through a "Hammer of Banning".

While chaotic, I hope I replied to any of your comments.

-Ham

[xmusicfreakx]

Listen to yourself. You are limiting EotA to people with good up-to-date computers. I recently (finally) played a game online, and half the people left 10-20 minutes into the game because they couldn't stand the lag.

Also, I looked at the triggering of the map, and I have to say it's horrible. I think the code might be the biggest reason for the lag, not just the map size. I'm working on optimizing it and releasing an optimized version for better play on B.net. No offense to DarnYak, but I'll probably finish this before he releases 1.11. =P

Sorry to say it but no matter how useful your suggestions may be, they will never be taken seriously.

Yeah, I realized that, that's why I'm working on that optimized version. First I'm going to optimize the triggering, and if that doesn't remove most of the lag, then I'll take out the Kedge's Landing map, because that map sucks. XD


Cheers

[perambulation]

Here's a suggestion for you:

If you're computer is too shitty to run a map and the only way to fix it is to expect the map maker to change it all just to convenience you and a few others and make it less enjoyable for others, don't play it. No ones forcing you to play the map.

Also, anyone with the recommended computer requirements for Warcraft III should be able to play the map fine, otherwise the people will experience lag if:
- The host has a bad internet connection
- They themselves have a bad internet connection
- They're attempting to play the map with minimal requirement to play
- The host is attempting to host it with the minimal requirement to play

The recommended computer requirements are hardly "good up-to-date".

[Tehw00tz]

It's funny 'cause you don't have anything else to do.

[xmusicfreakx]

I like how I post my feedback and the first thing that everyone says is to get a new computer. FYI, the laggy computer's specs are 3 times that of the requirements, and it still lags in SP! Hmm...not something every person wants in a map.

It's funny 'cause you don't have anything else to do.

You obviously have nothing to do because you're on an inactive forum where no one talks except about when the next version will be released. XD I only registered here to share my feedback, but since no one seems to care about how to make the map better, I'm out.

Cheers


PS: I noticed that Hammel was the only one that actually used valid arguments against me. XD Wow the rest of you would suck as lawyers.

[AlienFromBeyond]

None of us care because the map maker doesn't show up here anymore, mmkay? We were all giving feedback when there was someone who listened to us. You complaining literally does nothing.

Oh, and I will reserve a special hell for you where the likes of EdgarRoniFigaro reside if you put out your own version of EotA.

[Tehw00tz]

I like how I post my feedback and the first thing that everyone says is to get a new computer.

First off, bad computer and or bad connection are probally the number 1 and 2 reasons for lag. You asked to fix the lag, I gave a suggestion.

It's funny 'cause you don't have anything else to do.

You obviously have nothing to do because you're on an inactive forum where no one talks except about when the next version will be released.
Cheers

Inactive? Theres been atleast 4 new threads about car insurance and viagra, they may not be from members, but they are consistant, meaning someone or something is... ACTIVE!

[Something]

http://www.blizzard.com/war3x/ for the recommended minimum system requirements.

OR, for lazy people:

600 mhz processor
256 ram
32 meg video card


Now, lets look at my current setup:

1.5 mhz processor
512 ram
256 meg video card

Average FPS on my setup: 10 (choppy, sluggish screen sliding)
Average endgame FPS on my setup: 2 (unplayable)

[edit] I'd like to note that I play with the graphics options as low as possible, no music in the background, no music from TFT, no programs in the background, and that that average performance is no different on a fresh OS installation. [/edit]

If you truly believe that the recommended system requirements are enough for EotA, then consider my average performance.

What will fix it? RAM? No. Video card? No. PROCESSOR? YES! You NEED a good processor for EotA more than anything due to the amount of CPU it requires to run all those triggers, and not to mention each and every individual unit AI.

Those recommended requirements are pretty much just generalized. I played TFT on a setup similar to them for years and found a lot of things too chunky for my liking, but I still did it because I had fun. Note that I COULD NOT play EotA on it. It lagged like hell at the very start of the game.

I'd like to note however, that tavern heros do stack up on the CPU usage. I've played in games that lagged like no other because of them being bought as soon as possible by either my team, or theirs, or both.

Also, if Warcraft's trigger system is like many other event based scripting languages, then the more triggers in the map, the more CPU it will need to play it. This is because when any event happens, it scans through the script for matching triggers until it finds it. While in truth this itself doesn't use a lot of CPU, I imagine it could stack up quite a bit on slower computers while handling several other things at once.

I'll end this with: In some cases, I end up being unable to do anything before the end of the game, while they can still gain the advantage, due to lag. ALSO, if anyone blames unplayable lag on internet connection, YOU'RE WRONG, WRONG, AND ALSO WRONG, AND YOU SHOULD BE LEARNING ABOUT COMPUTERS FROM YOUR GRANDPARENTS!

[Tehw00tz]

...Lag to not blame on net connection?
What connects you to the internet? Your internet connection.
If said connection is crap, how're you gonna get good performance for EotA?
Right after Hurricane Katrina my connection was at 10 mbps, did I lag? Yes.

[Something]

...Lag to not blame on net connection?
What connects you to the internet? Your internet connection.
If said connection is crap, how're you gonna get good performance for EotA?
Right after Hurricane Katrina my connection was at 10 mbps, did I lag? Yes.

If said connection is crap, your game can still run perfectly fine, however you will continue to pop a lag box. This is in no way the same thing that I'm talking about.

There is a large difference in 2 frames per second and a lag box. When your screen is displaying the video at that speed, you can literally do just about nothing. Anything that requires point and clicking is something you would find very difficult, and if you're fighting on equal grounds, you're definatly going to lose. However, if you're just popping a lag box here and there, or the game stutters from slow internet, your mouse is NOT changed by this.

Also, Warcraft was designed to be ran on dial-up. There is no reason for a connection to be sending out even more than a half meg a second for most games. Everything sent is just variables, data containing information about what is going on. Esentially a txt file, which we know can contain thousands of words and retain a size under 5kb.

Type /fps while in game (not in the pregame lobby) to see your frames per second. Try and tell me that relates with your internet connection.

[xmusicfreakx]

None of us care because the map maker doesn't show up here anymore, mmkay? We were all giving feedback when there was someone who listened to us. You complaining literally does nothing.

Well how was I supposed to know that? I downloaded EotA, I liked it, but I had some suggestions, so I though "Hmm, maybe I should find the EotA forum and post them there..." It's not my fault DarkYak disappeared or whatever happened to him.

Oh, and I will reserve a special hell for you where the likes of EdgarRoniFigaro reside if you put out your own version of EotA.

Really? What are you gonna do, spam my email? Hah, I've had worse problems, trust me...there's not much you can do. I don't know what you're worried about, it's not like I'm going to remove credit to DarkYak, don't worry it'll still be there. I'll just say optimized by xmusicfreakx or something like that right below his name. I don't think anyone gave MacGuyver any bullshit when he made a mod of Battle Tanks. So I don't see your problem...

[AlienFromBeyond]

Really? What are you gonna do, spam my email? Hah, I've had worse problems, trust me...there's not much you can do. I don't know what you're worried about, it's not like I'm going to remove credit to DarkYak, don't worry it'll still be there. I'll just say optimized by xmusicfreakx or something like that right below his name. I don't think anyone gave MacGuyver any bullshit when he made a mod of Battle Tanks. So I don't see your problem...

What will I do? Absolutely nothing. I just felt that I should let it be known that I think that people who do what you propose absolute scum .

Plus, your computer really isn't that good anyways. EotA really does strain War3 in some ways.

[Hammel]

I've got an AMD Athlon 2400+... and EotA, even several games after each other, are run perfectly fine... I know it is about a gig more that you have, somebody, but stilll, 2/3 of of 2 frames more is... ~2, and I don't play with 4 frames in endgame (at least not until the Main is surrounded by ~200 units). While this may not be perfectly right and CPU doesnt ass up linear, it still DOES make you think it isnt CPU alone (I didnt mention the 3 chatprogrammes, the music and w/e I've got running in the background)...

Apart from that, doubling my RAM (from 512 to 1k) helped me a lot, now I can even mini during the game without annyone noticing (usually), something you wouldn't ever dream of, huh?

However, I do agree that a better Video card wont make it better since the effects in EotA are standard WC3, which are not too... intense...

Normal CPU-heroes shouldnt slow the game since the AI-checks are run every 0.1*amount of CPUs seconds... 5 AIs=every AI is run twice a second (making 10 checks), 1 AI=the AI is run 10 times a second, no change. Dunno about the tavern heroes though.

And Something is right on the connection, since the amounts of upload-space WC3/EotA needs is minimal... unless uploading the whole map to dlers in the lobby ~~.

Dunno if I've forgotten something ~~

Ohh, and I dunno if you can really make the code for EotA easier/better, because Yak doesnt even DARE to touch some parts, in order not to ruin the whole map... but that is up to you, good luck... and maybe Yak even uses parts of your code when it works and makes his Editor load it faster...

[Tehw00tz]

XD I only registered here to share my feedback, but since no one seems to care about how to make the map better, I'm out.

And yet, your still here.

PS: I noticed that Hammel was the only one that actually used valid arguments against me. XD Wow the rest of you would suck as lawyers.

Valid arguements for suggestions to help you not lag in EotA.......Right

[xmusicfreakx]

What will I do? Absolutely nothing. I just felt that I should let it be known that I think that people who do what you propose absolute scum .

I'm scum for optimizing a map? Alright...people do it all the time to a lot of maps, the only maps that don't really get touched are super-protected maps, usually AoS's like DotA and ToB.

Plus, your computer really isn't that good anyways. EotA really does strain War3 in some ways.

Noooo, my computer is probably better than any of yours. It's my dad's computer that lags with EotA (which used to be mine, hence why I started this topic).

Ohh, and I dunno if you can really make the code for EotA easier/better, because Yak doesnt even DARE to touch some parts, in order not to ruin the whole map... but that is up to you, good luck... and maybe Yak even uses parts of your code when it works and makes his Editor load it faster...

Why not? A little change to the code shouldn't ruin the whole map...And I don't know about making the code easier, but I can definitaly make it better. I've already started with some basic stuff. =]

[Tehw00tz]

I look forward to hearing about someone being admitted to the insane asylum because that thought that optimizing EotA would be "easy"
But you can always look at the bright side, you wont be writing 23 on the walls.

[AlienFromBeyond]

I'm scum for optimizing a map? Alright...people do it all the time to a lot of maps, the only maps that don't really get touched are super-protected maps, usually AoS's like DotA and ToB.
No, you're scum for fiddling around with a intellectual property that isn't yours because you felt like it.

Noooo, my computer is probably better than any of yours. It's my dad's computer that lags with EotA (which used to be mine, hence why I started this topic).
Really? Because your earlier posts says that "Now, lets look at my current setup:. So is it yours or not? Either way you knew what I was referring to, so don't pick on technicalities with me.

Ohh, and I dunno if you can really make the code for EotA easier/better, because Yak doesnt even DARE to touch some parts, in order not to ruin the whole map... but that is up to you, good luck... and maybe Yak even uses parts of your code when it works and makes his Editor load it faster...

Why not? A little change to the code shouldn't ruin the whole map...And I don't know about making the code easier, but I can definitaly make it better. I've already started with some basic stuff. =]

Shows how much you know. If you looked around the forum at all you would see that DarnYak plainly points out that the map is extremely sensitve. He's tried removing stuff in the map that no longer does anything and yet it manages to screw something up. And you, who are not DarnYak (and thus not the map creator), think you know the map better and how to fix it? Fuck you man, fuck you.

[Tehw00tz]

lol Alien wait, don't discourage him, his "Revision" could [and probally will] turn out to be very funny.

[SeasonsOfLove]

Oh, and I will reserve a special hell for you where the likes of EdgarRoniFigaro reside if you put out your own version of EotA.

Obviously you don't know everything about EdgarRoniFigaro.

[SeasonsOfLove]

Obviously you don't know everything about EdgarRoniFigaro.

Wuffle helped Enfos more than he hurt it, how people can still hold a grudge on him is beyond me. Really is a shame Enfos 2 was cancelled.

*doesn't hold a grudge*

[Discombobulator]

qft