Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

While I'm changing everything, i may as well give items a review too. So what items are never gotten, or very rarely used. Feel free to suggest improvements, or suggestions for additional items. This includes all artifacts.

DarnYak

Black Dragon's Heart

Don't people abuse that?

DarnYak

Armor item that increases magic resistance.

Remote Controlled Flying Machine

And the game needs more Potato of the Apocalypse.

Don't people abuse that?

DarnYak

I don't see how?

Armor item that increases magic resistance.

Black Dragon's Heart

Second

I'll add in evasion armor and plate helm.

SuIIy wrote: Second

I'll add in evasion armor and plate helm.

Maybe you don't use them, but both of those aren't useless

watermelon wrote:Armor item that increases magic resistance.

Not useless, you just don't see many teams of full casters. Where it would be extremely useful

I personally have never seen Scroll to Town Portal Used

jamn455 wrote:Remote Controlled Flying Machine

I also agree with the above quoted statement

Maybe you don't use them, but both of those aren't useless

I didn't say useless? And I rarely see anyone use those items.

Not useless, you just don't see many teams of full casters. Where it would be extremely useful

huh?

Just a quick fyi, most of these items would probably get alot more use if they weren't so much money or had slight modifications. The usefulness-to-cost ratio seems disproportionally higher with items such the Dragon's Heart (particularly when compared to other artifacts) or Plate Helmet (life orb, armor upgrades, or knight's armor).

Also it's a pain to walk to all the secret shops.

I cant figure out how much of this thread is trolling or actual opinions.

DarnYak

The ring that gives atk str and armor would be worth it if it game just a little bit more dmg

Zdig25 wrote:The ring that gives atk str and armor would be worth it if it game just a little bit more dmg

The Warrior's Ring* Ring of Might is always preferred

I think the remote controlled flying machine is cool, but whenever I use it it flies a distance away not attacking anything even when I'm meleeing a tower. If it had better ai, attacked whatever you attack, or attack moves wherever you attack move/right click then it'd be great. It doesn't attack heroes correct? Only mobs and structures?

DarnYak wrote:I cant figure out how much of this thread is trolling or actual opinions.

DarnYak

I was being serial, it's a chore to have to remember the positions of all the secret shops. You even moved them around on Stormwail, so I don't know their positions over there either. DotA has secret shops, but it has a flying courier that you don't have to buy at a secret shop.

Discombobulator wrote:DotA has secret shops, but it has a flying courier that you don't have to buy at a secret shop.

As much as I was objected to it at first, I really enjoyed HoN's change of removing the secret shop completely and making all items purchasable from the base. The side shops are still around since they don't offer different items, but generally if people were needing something from the secret shop, the flying courier picked it up anyways. The only thing the secret shop really ends up doing is adding extra confusion to new players.

I think -temper should be removed from the game so the cargo plane gets more use.

jamn455 wrote:I think -temper should be removed from the game so the cargo plane gets more use.

Heresy!

Mills wrote:

Discombobulator wrote:DotA has secret shops, but it has a flying courier that you don't have to buy at a secret shop.

As much as I was objected to it at first, I really enjoyed HoN's change of removing the secret shop completely and making all items purchasable from the base. The side shops are still around since they don't offer different items, but generally if people were needing something from the secret shop, the flying courier picked it up anyways. The only thing the secret shop really ends up doing is adding extra confusion to new players.

That would be ideal, of course, but a compromise solution would be moving the flying courier to the base.

I can't tell if you're objecting to the positions of the neutral shops, or just the fact that the cargo plane is sold at them. If the former, which ones are we talking about? Ancient of Wonders, Gob labs, or Gob shops? Or do you just want them all in the main base?

DarnYak

There should be a disadvantage of upgrading an item, such as time waited to get it to and from your altar and the ability to have your cargo plane killed in transit meaning you have to back out of the action if you want to safely get your items back to base for upgrading.

Other than making people wait for their items to get better there is no real downside, cargo planes are very fast and cost like 200 gold and all it takes is one player to buy one and share control.

jamn455 wrote:There should be a disadvantage of upgrading an item

I think gold cost is already enough of a disadvantage. Making it longer to upgrade an item would just make it annoying for the player.

Cargo Plane's use is also slightly reduced by the worker who can also carry items and build/repair structures. It's slower and doesn't have flying movement but it can do much more than the plane throughout the whole game.

Remote Controlled Flying Machine is pretty strong against towers, but it costs a lot and has a wacky AI. Pretty useless against attacking heroes.

Scroll to Town Portal seems pretty expensive. It might be useful for denying a hero kill, but I guess most people overlook it due to EotA already providing a cheaper way of teleporting and there are better, inexpensive ways to escape.

I don't think I ever played a game when someone bought those temporary stat increasing buffs at the Goblin Merchant. Not sure about Tome of Power either.

I've never even seen anyone use a shield. Take them out of the game, nobody uses them, not even if there is a fire.

The evocation gloves should probably go in here. I've been punching in some quick numbers, and for the price, the gloves are pretty much a waste of money. For instance:

A +5 Wisdom Ring gives SB an additional 27 dmg to Incinerate and 24 dmg to Carnage, at a cost of 3.5 k gold. the Evoc gloves, however, only grant an additional 10 dmg to Incinerate (37) and 12 to Carnage (36), at a cost of 4 k gold. This also doesn't count the added bonus of mana regen/pool. I'd personally consider this item to be useless. It seems a much better bet to get int (or main stat) instead of evoc. Evoc items strike me as totally inferior to others. The crystal staff is an exception: you've got the insane extra mana + the clone spell.

Throwing evoc gloves into the numbers from the SB thread for soulstrike, at level 30 (~70 base int), gloves would grant about +200 damage, whereas ring grants about +70

This isn't to say one is better than the other, but it depends on the skill/hero/other items in question.

DarnYak