Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

So, Gloomreap's also on my list of things i want to fix before i release this next version. So yea, i've mentioned kedge, i've mentioned candle, and now gloomreap. Those who selected "fix the other maps" in the other post should be happy ;P

Current plans: Redo the fucking lanes. The crossovers were suppose to be interesting, instead they just fuck the map up. I'm not terribly happy of turning the map into just 4 parrallel lanes, but its better then its current state. The only other option i could come up with (and be balanced) would be lanes that do an X or maybe >---<, but either of those would currently require a massive reterraining that I don't have time for.

The other issue is the gloomite. It's not terrible in its current state, but I'm trying to think if there's a way i can improve it some. Perhaps making it more interactive, like letting heroes mine the gloomite and let workers pick it up and carry it home. Something like heroes will have to beat down a crystal, then it shatters and spawns lots of fragments. Workers then collect the fragments. This of course means you'll have to time breaking crystals properly and try to defend it untill all the fragments are collected. Thoughts?

DarnYak

agreed on the pathing issues, i felt like i should have gone out and purchased a gps when i was on that map because i never knew where the hell i was going on it. i think the issue with the gloomrite is that its pretty much just passive, send the worker on it and forget about it, much like the obs are, cap it and forget it. think it all needs to be more interactive or something.

Do we care about noobs at this point?

Only slightly, how is that relevant to this discussion?

DarnYak

Breaking gloomite crystals and waiting for workers to collect the shards is not exactly noob friendly, but if we dont care about them you can implement something this or more complex to entertain the experienced players.

Well I guess that's part of the question. Is it that complex?

And will it be entertaining? I am concerned people will find it boring to spend time breaking gloomite.

DarnYak

It will be boring waiting in an empty lane for the miners to pick the shards up, so everyone will just move with the wave and not care about them.

I vote on keeping the Gloomite system similar to the way it is. As it stands now I end up completely forgetting about the Gloomite, and just see all these workers running around pounding on random blocks. I think most people want to use their hero to command troops and fight in battles, not chop away at a rock. If you want heroes to take a more interactive role in Gloomite mining then you might refine the system behind the workers going to Gloomite deposits, maybe allow them to set the point where they start harvesting or command them more efficiently. Perhaps Command Towers could have a role in this.

Honestly, I don't understand the Gloomite system completely to begin with. It's interesting, though everyone tends to overlook it, unlike the Obelisks in Stormwail Peak; you either controlled those or risked falling dangerously behind in units and resources. It's the same way with Gloomite although for starters there is no command to check where all the Gloomite deposits are on the map, and it's all done automatically anyway; you can literally just sit back and fight while your workers automatically spawn and head to the nearest Gloomite rock. And sure you can click on them one at a time and send them off to another one, but it doesn't change much.

Still, it remains the only way to gather Tower Cores in that map and I'm pretty sure they also give crystal, though I could be wrong. Also the fact that controlling the Gloomite allows you to access the Artifact is a big one, so denying your enemies valuable resources is a good strategy.

I don't understand the Gloomite system completely to begin with

The idea was suppose to be the team that babysits their miners can harvest faster, since they respawn pretty slow. Likewise, you can go kill enemy harvesters to slow the other team's harvesting down. The problem is, as you said, everyone just forgets about them. I'm trying to figure out some way to make interaction with them more prevalent.

Maybe there could be various excavation sites around the map, which the heros could activate, which then sends a team of workers there to mine, so the idea is to hold the node untill the excavation completes... It's sort of like the above idea, but not quite.

DarnYak

I vote you keep gloomite the way it is.

What if Gloomreap also had obelisks like Stormwail? There's no rule really that says the regions all need completely different systems..

It used to. I dumped it because of #1 theme, and #2 I wanted to experiement with different objectives. I think there might have been issues as well with obelisks not really working so well in gloom's layout (you could never keep them alive as i recall, and were basicly not worth building)

DarnYak

Perhaps we need to draw from objective ideas that have worked for other games, and integrate them into the story for EotA.

Any way we can do Capture the Flag?

I think it needs to be a little easier to know where the lane creeps are headed because the map is full of twists and turns especially since nobody has really played the map too much.

Any way we can do Capture the Flag?

That's what Kedge sort of was meant to be, but I think that shows it really needs to be 100% player controlled and not a neutral spawn. Don't think it would work on Gloom..MAYBE on candle...

I think it needs to be a little easier to know where the lane creeps are headed because the map is full of twists and turns especially since nobody has really played the map too much.

That should be much easier once the intersecting lanes are gone. It basicly comes down to elminating the corner hillside outposts and the center island outposts.

DarnYak

DarnYak wrote:That's what Kedge sort of was meant to be, but I think that shows it really needs to be 100% player controlled and not a neutral spawn. Don't think it would work on Gloom..MAYBE on candle...

What if Kedge became obelisks only and Gloomreap started using the artifact ctf thing from Kedge?

Kedge doesn't need obelisks since it's getting a new system of its own (one I have a lot more faith in).

DarnYak

Is the new system different enough that you could make Gloomreap into obelisks? I know you tried like 3 different positions for them in the past but I feel like with new creep lanes it could be okay.

Ahem, viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1406

That could be cool, and you could highlight the recommended one for that region

Any chance anyone tried gloom without the weird lane pathing? I'll probably do some more work on it before the final version still, but curious if people are still lost on gloom or not.

DarnYak

The lanes are pretty straightforward now so its hard to believe people could get lost anymore. My only thought is that the top left and bottom right corners look lonely now without their bases. Also talents work on gloomreap and stormwail

Kalrithus wrote:Also talents work on gloomreap and stormwail

Talents actually work completey at random. I forgot to remove a line of code, so it ends up comparing two variables set elsewhere, which usually comes out false (hense no talent access), but sometimes not.

DarnYak

Just FYI, I've decided to re-terrain most of gloomreap in the next version. It's not completely terrible atm, but it's really not what it could be. It will stay 4 lanes, but with a lot of tweaking (double layered bases most likely, wider lanes, more design around gloomite and any changes to go with it).

DarnYak