An Aeon of Strife map for Warcraft 3
http://eota.emufarmers.com/forums/
This is how most strategy [war] games work. EotA isn't that much different except, I would say in EotA there's many more things you have to pay attention to.Never been a huge fan of DotA, to be honest. Tried a recent version, it seems all about knowing everything, at all times
DotA isn't really a war-sim, it's a game. While in real life killing your own troops to deny enemy heroes EXP is nonsensical, DotA is not real-life. It has about the same logical consistency as Bishops being able to only move diagonally in Chess. The point isn't to replicate the way things are but just to have worked within the bounds of Warcraft III and make a fun game.while killing your own mobs (Which strikes me as kinda counter-intuitive)
I hope they come up with something interesting. If HoN's any indication however (and given that it was made independently it may not be), DotA is going to be...DotA, made by Valve. The limitations IceFrog is held back by are mostly mechanical (Blizzard patches, hero skill limits) but I don't think the mechanics are going to radically change. I may very well be woefully wrong though since I don't actually know what he's doing, what he's planning or what Valve wants it's just sort of wonton speculation.Let's see how he does now that Valve's working with him, they usually put out really good games.
This is true, but in DotA it seems far more essential to know everything about the hero you chose, his counters, useful allies, useful (even necessary, at times) items, worst enemies, how to solo/team level in a lane. . .Things that aren't as easily picked out as "Oh, that mob has heavy armor, I should counter with magical damage." It just strikes me as there's so much memorization that goes into playing one hero that can't be picked up from the game alone -- and how many enemy heroes could there be?!This is how most strategy [war] games work.
Right, and I guess that's part of the crux for me: I find it fun to be leading the army in, not killing my own damn guys so the enemy doesn't level. It's just a turn off, I guess.The point isn't to replicate the way things are but just to have worked within the bounds of Warcraft III and make a fun game.
This is true, I do despise the community, but again, it's more than just the community I don't agree with, as I mentioned above. And yeah, I don't think EotA gets the credit it deserves, but that's not really the point of my post.It seems to me you take issue more with the way DotA as a community is constructed in WC3 (as the dominant game played by the most people) and that EotA doesn't get as much credit for what it deserves.
I really hope so. The first (and only) AoS based game I got was Demigod, and I'm damn glad I picked it up at a discount. Game was not worth its money, IMO. Mechanics being similar I might be able to see, but if he were to change them, I could see much closer things to be done -- I could see an AoS that uses a close-in, 3rd person camera (think Diablo II) so maybe you're not watching as much, but the necessary info for micro is there. That might be fun.I hope they come up with something interesting.
The fact that I have to play 50 times with the same hero (exaggeration, but still there) in order to begin to understand how to get what items my hero needs, what items my hero needs, where each and every item is, how to play said hero with another hero/against a certain hero is really ridiculous. EotA has a learning curve, but it's nowhere near as hidden, as most of the information you'll want is in your tooltips, should you bother to read them.It's not the map's fault if you suck at it.
So your case is that the rules are retarded?CryptLord1234 wrote:The fact that I have to play 50 times with the same hero (exaggeration, but still there) in order to begin to understand how to get what items my hero needs, what items my hero needs, where each and every item is, how to play said hero with another hero/against a certain hero is really ridiculous. EotA has a learning curve, but it's nowhere near as hidden, as most of the information you'll want is in your tooltips, should you bother to read them.It's not the map's fault if you suck at it.
DotA, I spend the first 5 minutes reading all the item recipes and trying to remember A) What is where and B) which things I want. May be natural after you play it for awhile, but not when you're first trying to learn it. EotA, I see a tooltip says "X damage + (Y*Int) and I think, "Okay, if I want that to do more damage, I get more int." Rather than "So-and-so build getting X amount of int and Y amount of str and Z amount of agi is optimal for hero 1 because it allows. . . etc etc etc." which I've seen a lot of. And it seems like a death means you're a disgrace to your team, etc. That's getting way more into community problems than the map itself, though.
Also, doesn't change the fact that killing your own creeps is retarded. Isn't the point of the AoS to fight the other hero around the army, not kill your army so they can't? I can understand single-unit sacrifices, but trying to last-hit all of your creeps is kinda ridiculous.
My case is that some of the rules, and most of the community, are retarded. It being item-centric, I can deal with. It requiring a helluva lot more play time than any other game I've played thus far to understand the intricacies, I can't. (I'll mention Civ 4 here, can beat Monarch difficulty occasionally.)Discombobulator wrote:So your case is that the rules are retarded?
Dota is a sport. Sports have retarded rules. See football (soccer for you ameritards), chess, tennis, etc. Each of those has a learning curve far greater than Dota's but still have roughtly the same amount of players.
You have to learn to play Dota, that's all.
DO YOU STILL PLAY HONI LIKE DOTA AND EOTA EQUALLY AND I HOPE THEY BOTH SUCCEED.
Maybe it's the learning curve that makes DotA over a hundred times more popular than the next-best Warcraft map.CryptLord1234 wrote:My case is that some of the rules, and most of the community, are retarded. It being item-centric, I can deal with. It requiring a helluva lot more play time than any other game I've played thus far to understand the intricacies, I can't. (I'll mention Civ 4 here, can beat Monarch difficulty occasionally.)Discombobulator wrote:So your case is that the rules are retarded?
Dota is a sport. Sports have retarded rules. See football (soccer for you ameritards), chess, tennis, etc. Each of those has a learning curve far greater than Dota's but still have roughtly the same amount of players.
You have to learn to play Dota, that's all.
I don't see it as fun enough to invest the time in. I suppose I'll take back saying it's a shitty game and leave it at "I really don't like it."
The item mechanics aren't that different from most RPGs (or Japanese ones anyway) or MMOs. The game itself is kind of a hodge-podge of mechanics used in other RPGs. I agree with Disco though that part of the satisfaction from the game comes (for me) from practicing with the heroes and doing things properly at last.My case is that some of the rules, and most of the community, are retarded. It being item-centric, I can deal with. It requiring a helluva lot more play time than any other game I've played thus far to understand the intricacies, I can't. (I'll mention Civ 4 here, can beat Monarch difficulty occasionally.)
I don't see it as fun enough to invest the time in. I suppose I'll take back saying it's a shitty game and leave it at "I really don't like it."