Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

Purpose: Generators are a grossly overlooked aspect of EotA. The purpose of this report is primarily to educate forumgoers about the potential generators possess, and possibly help persuade DarnYak to change the current generator status quo.

Background: I'm CursedNobleman, a player on USEast. I have had at least two years of experience in playing EotA, and a few inhouse games with and against members of Clan EotA. The HostEm bot has allowed me to play EotA more frequently, and currently gives me a large supply of games and players to "experiment" on.

Basics: Generators all have a cost of 150 gold (add another 100 for a worker), take around three minutes to build, and require energy from obelisks to function. Energy also gives a marginal bonus to hero experience when unused allowing people obsessed with experience or are rather ignorant of the generator system to operate without a severe handicap.

Individual Reports on Generators: The following is a series of reports on each individual generator taken from games I've played. Most of them can be found in the replays section.

Replenishment: A generator that functions like a moon well. It recovers mana and life with its mana.

A potent generator. This functions as a makeshift healing fountain and can give a hero a quick boost of life and mana to continue a fight. Best deployed at an outpost or behind an obelisk tower to get a hero back in the action and ready to fight. A good generator, but underused.

Structural Support: A generator that provides nearby buildings with a +9 armor boost and can repair nearby buildings with a 16 life aoe heal.

The structural support generator is excellent for helping a base stay intact, primarily for its hefty armor aura. With a power cost of 3, its easy to deploy, easy to use, and can make a difference when an outpost is being hit hard. Another good, but underused generator.

Devastation: A generator that attacks nearby units.

A rather puny generator that attacks all nearby units for an average of 19 piercing damage at a high rate of fire. While it only costs 4 power to deploy, the time it takes to build and its rather dubious power make it too weak to actually do anything.I think it should be altered to do either more damage, or specialize in fighting certain units. (I.E. feedback for mages or a strong anti flying attack.) I would recommend against using this tower.

Attack: A generator designed to kill heroes. Does an average of 20 damage per shot with an autocasted damage buff (like flame arrow) that adds 60 damage.
Costs 10 mana to use and can hold a maximum of 200 mana.

A quirky generator, it can be used to lock down areas to heroes, primarily fountains. While they do take time to set up and can easily be destroyed while being built, they can be used to a rather humorous effect. On Stormwail Peak I scattered attack generators at three fountains. After a few deaths to these towers, heroes began to avoid the fountains even after I deactivated them! This tower can have tactical or herokilling potential if deployed carefully, otherwise they might just go to waste. Unfortunately, they lack truesight to kill saboteurs who visits fountains often. Otherwise it can be used as an amusing way to scare heroes away from points. I also tried using the fabled attack generator next to Rockin' Arthas. I would not recommend doing so unless you have a severe Music fetish, as the cost does not really outweigh the benefits. Another thing to note is attack generators functions reasonably well with siege generators to siege bases. While not the greatest tower, it has potential to those who have the wit and micro to use them correctly.

Arcane: A generator that has can cast potent spells. Can hold a maximum of 600 mana. Possesses shockwave, missile storm, and mass impale.

The arcane generator is an extremely finicky generator, and almost impossible to use. (I have not successfully used it.) Its power cost is 12 and it only functions as a defensive generator to stop pushes. The main problem with this generator is its function, it is only useful on a lane being hit hard or by a huge push. At the same time, its restrictive power cost prevents it from being used when your team is losing. A winning team will have the power to deploy this generator but not have the need for it, while a losing team will have the need for this generator but probably will lack the power. I would suggest that this generator be altered in some manner because for the moment, it is rather useless.

(Currently undergoing heavy review.)

Bomb: A generator that explodes after time is spent charging, extremely wide radius.

A novelty generator. It does roughly 1000 damage to ALL units in a ~3000 range area. (400 to buildings). Its teamkilling properties make it poor for defending, so it can only be used to bomb bases or lanes. While a fun tower to deploy, it takes four minutes to charge up and explode, and if detected in that time, you lose the element of surprise and possibly the generator itself. Theoretically, the generator can be used to make money, since the creeps and possible herokills from the resulting explosion will give more than 150 gold. However, with a cost of 12 energy, and a preparation time of around seven minutes, this generator is little more than a way of pissing off your enemies (or allies).

Crystal: A generator that generates crystals, can be upgraded up to two times for more rapid crystal gains.

The most popular generator, it does nothing but produce a steady stream of crystals. Not very exciting really. Its better than nothing, but there are better ways you can use energy, unless you cannot live without altar upgrades.

Siege: A generator that attacks buildings for an average of 100 siege damage per shot.

The siege generator is a strong generator, but tends to be limited in some regards. First of all, with an energy cost of 9, you will not use them in excess, and you probably wont use them unless you're winning in the first place. Another problem is their durability, heroes and the creepwave can tear into it and render your efforts moot. A final problem is sight, without a proper spotter, the towers will not fire in the first place. That being said, if you can spot for the tower, can protect the tower, and have energy to spare, the siege generator will help you win the game faster. Placement is important when deploying these towers. If placed off of a lane, and you fire where creeps move, you'll likely draw creeps to the generator and end up losing it. Placing a siege generator behind an outpost without any support is a quick way to lose it. Therefore, it is best placed in the middle of a lane when firing at an outpost. Another possible use for the siege generator is to capture the cliffside obelisks. While not my preferred method of doing so, it is a viable strategy as long as enemy heroes don't catch on. Overall, if you use siege generators carefully, you can make a difference.

Conclusion: Generators are a useful, if not unloved feature of EotA. However, the arcane and devastation generators (and possibly bomb) should be improved to a level where they can be used. But aside from that, all of the other generators have a use in EotA and can help improve your game if you care to micro.

I kinda miss the effectivness part to be honest.

the only time I see gens used are in crystal and when people pool money for arthas and stack hero attacking gens on him. I sometimes use the explosive one, but it's mostly useless because they are easily spotted.

I use siege gens with AA in the middle of Stormwail. Spell gens on Kedge, occasionally.

i've seen good use of replenishment gens stashed at the forward base of a lane for easy hero recharging, I've seen devastation used as cheap extra towers, and I've seen siege gens used by heroes that are holding a lane but can't risk attacking the town, or for surprise sieges by building them on the hill overlooking the town with some towers to wipe out creeps when they come. tbh, the ones i see used the least are the spell gens and the structural support one, although it does have the interesting side effect of healing buildings under construction so it pumps their hp up to maximum well before its finished building, but it does not help out the build speed. i believe they are all effective, and i like the delay on getting access to some of them. spell gens just don't seem that useful due to their horrific recharge time. Also, building an execution gen or two at fountains can net some easy hero kills, and helps protect injured allied heroes that are trying to heal. i really like bomb gens, but thats because i find them hilarious, especially when built right next to an enemy town but on a hill so they are never seen, or used by arthas as a sort of victory gift to the team that breaks through any other defenses you set up there. They make for a decent scorched earth policy, and its always nice to see the other team asking 'WTF WAS THAT'.

I have actually been using generators a lot more since the obs were moved. I usually put up a Siege gen to help take out the control tower and put down an Attack generator before I put money in a control tower for that ob.

Also, I have on numerous occasions put up a Structural Support generator, on Kedge's on the front line of buildings for the right lane to help heal and prevent damage.

Finished! Now all it needs are a series of edits and updates.

I think you should add a short note about unused energy giving bonus experience and then put it all on the Wiki.

Replenishment gens aren't underused.

Bomb gens are great.

Arcane gens pwn on Kedge.

Devastation gens are worth their money. You just gotta have like 4 of them in a group.

Crystal gens are hellish good. Nuff said.

I would argue that the fact that arcane generators are ONLY usable on Kedge renders them too niche to be useful. I have never seen anyone use a bomb gen to great effect. Lastly, though I didn't outline the how I precisely used devastation generators in my report, I planted four generators next to an obelisk tower. An arcane archer used an ice wall to cut the creepwave and my hero off from the generators where the enemy creeps promptly tore into them. Generators are not very durable and are easily torn apart by the creeps. I doubt using a generator to directly attack creeps and draw their aggro is a good idea.

With regards to crystal gens. They're usable, but way too popular for me to enjoy using, and limiting yourself to crystal generators undermines the effort that DarkYak put into them. Besides, crystal upgrades get more and more expensive when you purchase more. Inflation and stuff.

What does crystal gen being popular have to do with...well, anything?

They are popular because they work well?

Confused.

I think he's saying that to maintain the status quo, EVERYONE maxes crystal generators, less they fall behind the competition, so people aren't adventurous with their generator strategies lest they lose out on potential crystal. People using ONLY crystal generators, then, is not using them strategically or interestingly.

Lanthis wrote:I think he's saying that to maintain the status quo, EVERYONE maxes crystal generators, less they fall behind the competition, so people aren't adventurous with their generator strategies lest they lose out on potential crystal. People using ONLY crystal generators, then, is not using them strategically or interestingly.

Precisely. I mainly thing its a waste of creativity to do the norm.

Not if the norm is working. I agree that they are crusaded after often, but meh. If something is good, it's good!

On a side note, gens could prolly use some buffs or tweaks of some kind.

How about one that awards energy?

How about one that awards energy?

Mana? or Obelisk Power? We have replenishment for mana, and generators reward you for collecting "energy".

Dark_Nemesis wrote:How about one that awards energy?

man, i haven't seen a suggestion this good since i recommended gloves of necromancy a long time ago. I recommend you take a policy of typing up each of your posts in notepad, saving the file, coming back a day later and then reading it again before you post. you might stop things like this in the future.

on the note of devastation gens, they are meant to be cheap anti-troop supplements. if you want to hold off an entire wave + hero, you need something thats a little beefier. a couple towers + 4 devastation gens should scare off most attacks, unless its a late game siege. perhaps increase their range so they can deal with catapults might give a nice touch for forward defenses (most bases are built on high ground, so the cats have to move too close for LoS purposes). i've seen lots of non-crystal gens used, but they are the simplest to use generator, thus they get used the most. perhaps if you could only have one crystal gen active and not be able to upgrade them it would encourage the use of other generators? or put some other limitation, like you can only have one crystal gen per 3 obelisks you control (or per 3 moontears you collect). it would still leave a constant crystal supply (which is very nice) while reducing the massive impact crystal gens have in games with obs/moontear advantages.

I actually have nothing against crystal generators, I think they are balanced and serve a purpose in eota just fine. (I just think that their use lacks sophistication.) Devastation and arcane generators I do have something against. A direct combat tower such as a devastation generator or a siege generator that attracts a wave is as good as toast unless it has some sort of support. And if your intent is to use it as a cheap anti troop supplement, it does little good because of its immobility. That isn't even factoring in its puny damage. Much less its deployment cost in time and gold and energy use... I implore you, show me a replay where devastation generators make a difference, that may convince me. If not that, explain to me a possible situation I could recreate and test them in. (If that's the case, don't make it too conditional, that doesn't help and only proves that the generator is useless.)

I see nothing about how generators give you reduced experience gain.

I think their best use is as a cheap tower (150 gold) that will pay for itself in killing blows if you understand it isn't a tank. all it needs is to kill 10 melee spawns and you've broke even. set them up on lanes that are regularly getting pushed for some extra defense + cash. i often use them if i ever set up a forward defense on a lane, like any of the ob towers. They are quite horrendously cheap compared to other stationary defenses: 150 gold vs 900 and 3 crystal for the second cheapest tower. so if 6 devastation gens = 1 aegis tower, you come out 3 crystal ahead in the end. sure gens take a long time to build, but thats because they are cheap as hell. get any lane holding hero (holding not pushing, so eidolon and tree come to mind), take the ob and start building two gens immeadiately, holding far enough out that the gens wont be seen until they are built. costs 2 workers and 300 gold, so 500 gold. for the cost of one ob control tower, you now have two gens defending it. this can help defeat any merc pushes to take the ob if your hero can hold the army in range for a time. it also might help you get some cash should that lane get pushed. as long as your generators aren't trying to tank the creep wave, they make for quite effective creep killers. if you set it up right, you can even have the ob tower be the tank for the gens. just remember to repair it after each wave gets destroyed. i'll get you a replay where i use them to farm some cash. if anything, you should be talking about the usefulness of bomb gens. i guess they are good tree clearers, but they really aren't that useful. perhaps if they turned into a slow moving mobile unit, they could be better used. might have to make them auto-explode when they reach max mana then though, but give them some time to be manually detonated before hand for less damage (damage based on total mana?).

*edit* a replay showing an ob with two devastation gens holding for a long time against a hero and spawns. gets built without harrasment, does fall but is able to hold for a long time against a hero and spawns attacking it. also, i believe they killed enough creeps that they paid for themselves, or came very close to it. wasn't paying that close of attention to them as i moved on from that lane to try to hold another.

Get rid of EXP gain via. no gens or make it more minimal and not so badass.

Or remove crystal gens to make people use other types and to put crystal income back into hero killer hands.

I think a slight nerf to Crystal would do (every 20 to 25 secs), along with a very slight buff to devastation, removing the cooldown on the charged attack the execution has, and buffing arcane a lot.

Simply buffing the arcane generator won't work, it needs some heavy design changes. Perhaps I'll start a topic in the suggestions thread for generators.

CursedNobleman wrote:Simply buffing the arcane generator won't work, it needs some heavy design changes. Perhaps I'll start a topic in the suggestions thread for generators.

Buffing by getting better spells, being available earlier, and getting more mana regen.