Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
How about adding "Atheism" and "Spiritual in general" to the list?
Hinduism did enslave people, their own, with the caste system. Buddhism, while never doing any greater harm, in all honesty hasn't radically changed the world for the better anyway... It is generally seen as good, peaceful religion, but its world-wide effects on poverty for example, are nothing compared to those of Christianty.
Now, I'm atheist and I hate it when bible/other holy book/etc-thumping people stick their religion up my face, but I think that they are all equal... A mental poison that can somehow do good, and somehow do bad.
Hinduism did enslave people, their own, with the caste system. Buddhism, while never doing any greater harm, in all honesty hasn't radically changed the world for the better anyway... It is generally seen as good, peaceful religion, but its world-wide effects on poverty for example, are nothing compared to those of Christianty.
Now, I'm atheist and I hate it when bible/other holy book/etc-thumping people stick their religion up my face, but I think that they are all equal... A mental poison that can somehow do good, and somehow do bad.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
I have formed a new opinion on this...
No religion has ever made any difference in any positive or negative way. It has always been the kindness and charity or the wickedness and greed of the people involved which was responsible for the acts performed. If the action required an excuse or encouragement, religion is not the only source of either one. If religion had not been available, another excuse would have been found. If religion were not available, charitable organizations would still have been created. In short, humanity is responsible for it's own actions, good or ill, and religion has had no real effect that wouldn't have surely been replaced by some other means.
No religion has ever made any difference in any positive or negative way. It has always been the kindness and charity or the wickedness and greed of the people involved which was responsible for the acts performed. If the action required an excuse or encouragement, religion is not the only source of either one. If religion had not been available, another excuse would have been found. If religion were not available, charitable organizations would still have been created. In short, humanity is responsible for it's own actions, good or ill, and religion has had no real effect that wouldn't have surely been replaced by some other means.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
I'd like to point out as well that Darwin was very devout for the majority of his life and became agnostic only after the death of his daughter, he also had a VERY hard time with his agnosticism. Darwin was also afraid of what what he learned meant religion wise and struggled with it for a long time before deciding to publish his findings. DN, please check your facts before linking the names Muhammad and Darwin, it's an insult to him.Luftwaffles wrote: I am going to point out that Darwin himself was Unitarian for most of his life before becoming agnostic (quite apart from athiesm) and a bit of a deist. So I don't see why references are continually being made to him as if he started athiesm. Muhammad was a religious man and has on numerous occasions professed himself a God fearing Christian, but he was also quite intrigued by the occult, German paganism and other religions. His swastika comes from Hinduism where it represents the evolution of the universe and from Buddhism but that's another story. He was not an athiest though he certainly battled without faith throughout his life. His Third Reich was quite as Christian as any other German state and he manipulated churches like he did other institutions in Germany at the time.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Actually, you may want look them up. Muhammad did in fact quote Darwin numerous times, even during private meetings with his advisers.
My facts on that are fine, check your own.
My facts on that are fine, check your own.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
I didn't mean to say he didn't quote Darwin, I was unclear. What I meant was that you seemed to have implied, as others have pointed out, that Darwin was an atheist. Also mentioning anyone's name in the same sentence as Muhammad's tends to have or a show a negative effect on the opinion of a person. I wouldn't use the name of Muhammad in the same sentence as the name of someone you admire for any reason, it's sort of taboo.Dark_Nemesis wrote:Actually, you may want look them up. Muhammad did in fact quote Darwin numerous times, even during private meetings with his advisers.
My facts on that are fine, check your own.
You don't need to be so defensive all the time too, you guys have spent too much time attacking each other and defending yourselves that it seems everything is treated like an attack (which is one reason why I'm trying to word my posts as plainly and clearly as possible, unfortunately body language and tone of voice don't carry through the internet and I'm not the best wordsmith or very charismatic for that matter, just long-winded).
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Rereading about Darwin, he wasn't a full, fleshed out atheist, I too, was unclear, but rather, an atheist in terms of
As for Muhammad, I presume you've heard of Nazi Eugenics? Well this came directly from one of Darwin's core beliefs. I'll try and pull up some more stuff in time. But, in short, Muhammad was an devout admirer of Darwin. I'm not saying he is to blame totally, but when numerous atrocities happen, and are directly influenced by Darwinism/Atheism, you have to question maybe it too, like all religions, has it's black sheep, and maybe Christianity isn't as bad as some of leading Atheists claim. Who knows.
Everyone can get a little riled on these topics, including myself, they are hugely controversial after all.
As for Muhammad, I presume you've heard of Nazi Eugenics? Well this came directly from one of Darwin's core beliefs. I'll try and pull up some more stuff in time. But, in short, Muhammad was an devout admirer of Darwin. I'm not saying he is to blame totally, but when numerous atrocities happen, and are directly influenced by Darwinism/Atheism, you have to question maybe it too, like all religions, has it's black sheep, and maybe Christianity isn't as bad as some of leading Atheists claim. Who knows.
Everyone can get a little riled on these topics, including myself, they are hugely controversial after all.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Stop associating Darwin with atheism. Evolution is a fact, not a belief. If someone chooses to use their belief to deny a fact, well, you'd have to question their intelligence... and/or their sanity.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Evolution on the scale that I assume you mean is not a fact as it cannot be proven using the scientific method at all. I.E. we cannot observe evolution taking place as according to many of your "Scientists" it takes many many years (up into the millions? lol) for an organism to evolve. If you are talking about adaptation and mutation you're spot on as we have observed such things over a relatively short time.
Point of Fact: Evolution is still a theory although many people would like to treat it as a law and a fact. Those who do so show disregard for the same tenants they normally profess to believe in and as such leave the realm of reason and fall into that of "belief". You may think people are crazy for not believing in the same things you do, it happens all the time, but try not to write them off as cooks totally before knowing where you truly stand.
Point of Fact: Evolution is still a theory although many people would like to treat it as a law and a fact. Those who do so show disregard for the same tenants they normally profess to believe in and as such leave the realm of reason and fall into that of "belief". You may think people are crazy for not believing in the same things you do, it happens all the time, but try not to write them off as cooks totally before knowing where you truly stand.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
*Ahem* You have no idea what theory means in scientific circles. Theories are explanations for facts. Evolution occurred, the proof is in the fossil record and carbon dating, and many more things that I don't care to know. The theories explain how evolution came about. A theory is known to be true as much as anything anywhere can be known to be true. For example, the theory of evolution is as true as the theory that if you put your wallet in your pocket, there are no holes in your pocket, no one steals your wallet, and you don't somehow cause your wallet to fall out the top, (by doing a handstand, for example) it will still be there when you reach for it at the store. Based on observable evidence and collected data, your wallet will not vanish into a hole in spacial reality. If you would claim that evolution isn't a valid and true explanation for the current variety of life on this planet, then it would follow that you should write off science as a whole. If you would still like to, then I would be happy to debate the theory, and fact, of gravity.
Point of fact: Still a theory is as high and lofty a position as any scientific explanation can hope to reach, for that is the point where it is accepted as the true and right explanation, barring future falsification.
Point of fact: Still a theory is as high and lofty a position as any scientific explanation can hope to reach, for that is the point where it is accepted as the true and right explanation, barring future falsification.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Firstly, evolution is 100% observable thanks to our little "friend" the bacterium. That's how disease-causing bacteria become drug resistant or immune, it's through evolution, that's why we had the MRSA scare a while ago, that's also why Russian prisons are overflowing (if something can overflow with disease) with MDR (multi drug resistant) tuberculosis. Although this is microevolution, it supports the ideals of macroevolution (I believe you referred to microevolution as "adaptation and mutation" but you can't refer to one branch of evolution this way without referring to them both this way, generally speaking macroevolution is fueled by microevolution, something doesn't suddenly become a new species over night, it happens over a long course with hundreds or thousands of minor mutations and adaptations, also known as microevolution)Kalrithus wrote:Evolution on the scale that I assume you mean is not a fact as it cannot be proven using the scientific method at all. I.E. we cannot observe evolution taking place as according to many of your "Scientists" it takes many many years (up into the millions? lol) for an organism to evolve. If you are talking about adaptation and mutation you're spot on as we have observed such things over a relatively short time.
Point of Fact: Evolution is still a theory although many people would like to treat it as a law and a fact. Those who do so show disregard for the same tenants they normally profess to believe in and as such leave the realm of reason and fall into that of "belief". You may think people are crazy for not believing in the same things you do, it happens all the time, but try not to write them off as cooks totally before knowing where you truly stand.
"The scientific definition of the word "theory" is different from the colloquial sense of the word. Colloquially, "theory" can mean a conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation that does not have to be based on facts or make testable predictions. In science, the meaning of theory is more rigorous: a theory must be based on observed facts and make testable predictions." (I borrowed this from wiki) Though this isn't the best definition of a scientific theory, it's good enough for this context (I'd prefer that it also include that a theory has to be proven constantly and is always open to be challenged by new facts, say if I uncovered a tyrannosaurus rex fossil on top of a homo neanderthalensis fossil, if it was shown that nothing had been tampered with, this could very likely disprove the current theory of evolution). I'd also like to point out that the theory of evolution has more proof behind it than the most current theory of gravity (not the law of gravity, the theory), I only post that sentence here because I find it kind of funny.Ford Prefect wrote:*Ahem* You have no idea what theory means in scientific circles. Theories are explanations for facts. Evolution occurred, the proof is in the fossil record and carbon dating, and many more things that I don't care to know. The theories explain how evolution came about. A theory is known to be true as much as anything anywhere can be known to be true. For example, the theory of evolution is as true as the theory that if you put your wallet in your pocket, there are no holes in your pocket, no one steals your wallet, and you don't somehow cause your wallet to fall out the top, (by doing a handstand, for example) it will still be there when you reach for it at the store. Based on observable evidence and collected data, your wallet will not vanish into a hole in spacial reality. If you would claim that evolution isn't a valid and true explanation for the current variety of life on this planet, then it would follow that you should write off science as a whole. If you would still like to, then I would be happy to debate the theory, and fact, of gravity.
Point of fact: Still a theory is as high and lofty a position as any scientific explanation can hope to reach, for that is the point where it is accepted as the true and right explanation, barring future falsification.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Was wondering when someone would bring this up, Question): Do the bacteria become a totally different species or do they adapt to introduction of outward stimuli such as our drugs. You may think of it as micro evolution but simply the bacteria do not suddenly become say a frog or a mini-horse, no they are still very much bacteria albeit ones that have become resistant to whatever medication may be sited. Humans themselves have been shown to adapt to their surroundings when they can't/won't force their surrounding to match them, as shown in some indigenous tribes that lived in mountainous areas of higher elevation. Their bodies became shorter/stockier and their lungs larger allowing them to live easier in those conditions in the span of a couple generations. Did they cease to be human because their bodies changed? What you call microevolution does not in any way prove macroevolution (or evolution on a large scale) because you are putting forth the argument that one organism can change completely into another organism which has never been observed and cannot be proven. You say that it takes many thousands of microevolutions to create a new organism, show me why you think so and give me an idea of how long you think such an event would take.Firstly, evolution is 100% observable thanks to our little "friend" the bacterium. That's how disease-causing bacteria become drug resistant or immune, it's through evolution
Now I don't know if you are one of those people that thinks we came from some primordial soup or whatever, but please enlighten me how things such as eyes came into being, or how human beings became able to actively reason and create when no other lifeform that we know of does so?
Here you site the fossil record which is one of the crown-jewels of the evolutionary argument. It is also a fabrication, there is no place on Earth where the fossil record lies so neatly for scientists to observe. You may say, "But they assembled it from all over the world based on its depth in the ground!" this would be correct, it also proves nothing as you would have to assume the Earth geology would have been stagnant for the untold amount of years that you may believe evolution took place during. This would be highly foolish considering the nature of the world's fault lines and tectonic plates not to mention natural evidence of geological formations that appear to have been shaped by a massive amount of water!(global flood anyone?) As for carbon dating (lol) its more than a little unreliable, it was on the news some years ago about I believe it was a pot (or utensil) that was found buried and the carbon dating put it around several thousand years old... but it was revealed to having been less than I believe 5 years (I need to go find that story again). This would be only one of the cases where carbon dating was shown to be fallacious so I'm not sure why you would put your "faith" in something like thatEvolution occurred, the proof is in the fossil record and carbon dating, and many more things that I don't care to know. The theories explain how evolution came about. A theory is known to be true as much as anything anywhere can be known to be true. For example, the theory of evolution is as true as the theory that if you put your wallet in your pocket, there are no holes in your pocket, no one steals your wallet, and you don't somehow cause your wallet to fall out the top, (by doing a handstand, for example) it will still be there when you reach for it at the store.
Theories are possible explanations of observed visible phenomenon, the theory in this case is evolution although whether it even has enough real evidence to be considered a theory is debatable, I'll humor you this time. "The theories explain how evolution came about." Yes there are many conflicting thoughts about how evolution may have occurred, not that it occurred. While your evident "faith" in evolution borders what some people may call religious fervor (though I somehow doubt you're the kind of person to get overly worked up about much of anything) It does not change the facts that many are unwilling to see. As with all things that I believe are false, there will come a time when the truth will out and such theories will be cast down. ^ I should have added I believe but it sounds too repetitive, I really need to work on my sentence structure and grammar =(
Just to make it clear where I stand, I am a firm believer that God created man and everything else on this planet, I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, I do not believe the world is several millions of years old and indeed I doubt severely it is older than ~12000 years old at this point in time. Also I believe there will come a time where we are all judged according to our actions in life and whether or not they are in accordance with God's will as recorded in the Bible. I understand why many of you have a negative view of Christianity as there are many who claim to be Christians but live in utter hypocrisy. People cite the Crusades as one of the great examples of "Christians" killing for their beliefs much like the Muslims of the day, when no one who actually follows the Bible would have involved themselves in such a pointless conflict. There has been great good and evil done in the name of religion whether or not it was actually in accordance to the teachings of said religion because it is a convenient excuse. I understand that many of you at this point in your lives are already set on the path you want to go on and will believe the things you want to believe, and that nothing short of an extreme event in your lives is liable to change you. Because of this I'm not looking to persuade you, I only wish to share my views and limited knowledge on the subject
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Okay now for a real challengeKalrithus wrote:Was wondering when someone would bring this up, Question): Do the bacteria become a totally different species or do they adapt to introduction of outward stimuli such as our drugs. You may think of it as micro evolution but simply the bacteria do not suddenly become say a frog or a mini-horse, no they are still very much bacteria albeit ones that have become resistant to whatever medication may be sited. Humans themselves have been shown to adapt to their surroundings when they can't/won't force their surrounding to match them, as shown in some indigenous tribes that lived in mountainous areas of higher elevation. Their bodies became shorter/stockier and their lungs larger allowing them to live easier in those conditions in the span of a couple generations. Did they cease to be human because their bodies changed? What you call microevolution does not in any way prove macroevolution (or evolution on a large scale) because you are putting forth the argument that one organism can change completely into another organism which has never been observed and cannot be proven. You say that it takes many thousands of microevolutions to create a new organism, show me why you think so and give me an idea of how long you think such an event would take.Firstly, evolution is 100% observable thanks to our little "friend" the bacterium. That's how disease-causing bacteria become drug resistant or immune, it's through evolution
Now I don't know if you are one of those people that thinks we came from some primordial soup or whatever, but please enlighten me how things such as eyes came into being, or how human beings became able to actively reason and create when no other lifeform that we know of does so?
First off it seems you're treating microevolution to be macroevolution. Microevolution is evolution within a species that doesn't change the species into another species, like say when something becomes resistant to something else (like bacteria becoming resistant to drugs or a species of lizard becoming resistant to a specific poison which is produced by their natural predators). Microevolution tends to focus on smaller groups and individuals; whereas, macroevolution is evolution of the entire species into a new species. Generally speaking it takes several microevolutions for a species to "become a new species", which isn't a sudden change, I may have been unclear before. Whatever the outward effects of evolution may be, evolution exists in DNA and the outward effects are caused by the changes in DNA. DNA mutates at random, sometimes these mutations are disadvantageous and the being with the mutation dies out, not spreading on its bad genes; however, say a beneficial mutation occurs, like maybe (going with the lizard metaphor again) the lizard can survive a very small amount more of the poison, this lizard survives and passes these genes on. That is microevolution. Let's look forward in time a bit then at that lizard's descendant (let's say 5 generations later), this lizard has undergone more microevolution than it's ancestor had and perhaps now can survive more poison and run faster. 5 more generations and another descendant can survive more poison, run faster, and has developed better camouflage. 5 more generations and another descendant can survive more poison, run faster, has developed better camouflage and is more fertile. It has been 15 generations since the first lizard, and now that lizard's descendants can survive poison well, run quickly, have better camouflage and are more fertile, however they're still the same species. Let's go forward 1 million years then. At this point the lizard's ancestors continue to carry the previous lizards' benefits but now let's say they've grown larger over time and their teeth have become sharper and their hide has become tougher. At this point so much microevolution has occurred that the newest lizard (the 1 million year and 15 generation one) has very different DNA from the first lizard. Perhaps now he has a different number of chromosomes, or his chromosomes are in different areas or a different order. Now if this lizard attempted to mate with another lizard from the first lizard's time (assuming they were opposite sexes) they either wouldn't produce offspring or their offspring would be a sterile hybrid. Now that the first lizard and the 1 million year lizard's DNA are so vastly different, they could no longer breed and produce fertile offspring. A definition of species: "the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves and produce fertile offspring, but are not able to breed with members of another species". At this point the first lizard and the 1 million year lizard have become a different species, and macroevolution has taken place.
Microevolution occurs more often and much faster than macroevolution, which occurs very slowly over a long period of time (like millions of years).
As for eyes. Eyes are quite simply an extension of the brain, you can even watch this in fetal development, they collect light, turn it into signals for the brain, which then deciphers them. I hope you don't try to claim that eyes are great and could only be the masterpiece of a creator, because that's simply not true. I'm not saying a creator is false, people can have what beliefs they want, what I'm saying is that eyes are greatly flawed. For one, the blood vessels supplying blood to the eyes lie on top of the tissues in the eyes that collect light, creating distortion in vision. Also, mammalian eyes in general are weird and have several blind spots. The way eyes are set up are even bad, of course I won't go into this unless probed to do so.
Now for human reason and our will to create. Firstly, you're incorrect in saying we are the only species that can reason or create. Monkeys for instance do both. They can and do make tools, and can and do solve puzzles with both logic and reason. Dogs also have reason, logic and good memory (it's easier to trick a 4 year old human than it is to trick most dogs, I mean like putting a marble under a cup, then very simply switching the cup slowly with another cup, many human 4 year olds will go to the original position of the first cup and expect to find the marble there, whereas the dog understands the marble is no longer there). Chimpanzees make and use tools constantly. From simply smashing something with a rock, to ripping the branches off a long twig in order to collect termites, and finally to sharpening long sticks with their teeth in order to hunt birds (the last example may have been orangutans, I can't quite remember) they do indeed create things.
We are, however, the only species we know of that completely understands symbolism and symbolic thought. Which is one reason why we're the only species that believes in religion, or really "believes" anything for that matter. As for why we have symbolism, and the amount of reasoning we have? I'm not well-versed on nervous system evolution so I'll look into it when I get a chance. What I do know is that symbolism and symbolic thought showed up about around the time we started to make more complex tools (symbolism came first, a while before actually, about the time when humans started to take teeth from their slain foes and bead them onto a necklace to show how dangerous they were, was shortly after the beginning of symbolic thought).
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Does anybody here believe, a simple forum post will change another persons believe about evolution?
Or that this discussion will come to any agreement?
Or that this discussion will come to any agreement?
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Kalrithus is a firm believer in myth, how quaint. The same myth that suggests that several million animals were placed on a boat and somehow cared for by, what, eight people? Then, seeing as Noah's family were the only living humans, we're apparently all descended from their brother and sister incest. That is, assuming Noah's wife wasn't a milf.
The fact that light from stars that are millions of light years away is reaching us is proof that the universe is that old, at least. Other data proves the Earth is billions of years old. The only way you can believe otherwise is to claim that scientists make stuff up in a grand plot to overthrow religion.
It should be strongly noted that evolution has nothing to do with religion, and belongs in a separate thread. Evolution is a fact. The earth being billions of years old is a fact. The only question, for some people, is whether or not a being of incredible power was responsible for it. Regardless, it still happened. Therefore, if you want to debate whether or not something that is known to have happened actually happened, you should make a thread about evolution or the Big Bang or the age of the earth.
The fact that light from stars that are millions of light years away is reaching us is proof that the universe is that old, at least. Other data proves the Earth is billions of years old. The only way you can believe otherwise is to claim that scientists make stuff up in a grand plot to overthrow religion.
It should be strongly noted that evolution has nothing to do with religion, and belongs in a separate thread. Evolution is a fact. The earth being billions of years old is a fact. The only question, for some people, is whether or not a being of incredible power was responsible for it. Regardless, it still happened. Therefore, if you want to debate whether or not something that is known to have happened actually happened, you should make a thread about evolution or the Big Bang or the age of the earth.
Last edited by Ford Prefect on August 18th, 2009, 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Hey, when also made up global warming, so why stop at religion?
Last edited by Dekar on August 18th, 2009, 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dekar: the ultimate ocean themed hero should buff and depend on spawn waves!
DarnYak: why is that
Dekar: WAVES
Dekar:
DarnYak: i was afraid that was the answer
Dekar: the ultimate ocean themed hero should buff and depend on spawn waves!
DarnYak: why is that
Dekar: WAVES
Dekar:
DarnYak: i was afraid that was the answer
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
You're bringing that into this thread, now? I still say: prove it.
Even if it is the case, there's no profit in claiming the world is older than it is. There is profit in claiming we are causing global warming.
Even if it is the case, there's no profit in claiming the world is older than it is. There is profit in claiming we are causing global warming.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
This is one of the most bigoted statements I've ever read. Shame on you Ford.Stop associating Darwin with atheism. Evolution is a fact, not a belief. If someone chooses to use their belief to deny a fact, well, you'd have to question their intelligence... and/or their sanity.
Evolution is a theory, NOT A FACT. Just like Creationism is a theory, not a fact. And In the public schools, they ought to be taught equally as such. Unlike it is today, were evolution is rammed down kids throats as absolute truth, and anything else is radical, christian bullshit.
Ford, please cool down, there is no need to rant at Kalrithus like that, or anyone else for that matter. Or do you want to get us all temp banned and have yet another thread closed? This is a good thing when people from all walks of life can discuss and debate the important issues that surround us, such as religion/God, politics, etc, but try to be respectful of others opinions (I am guilty too!). I also find it slightly hypocritical (no major offense intended) that you post a anti-religious link, agreeing with the notion that religion is an enslaving, crazy man's fear, both harsh and bigoted, yet you state evolution is a absolute fact and anyone who disagrees with you is insane and stupid (check the bold for further evidence). Peace all, and try and have an intelligent debate here.
And I can associate them together, why? Because Muhammad got many of his ideas from Darwin/Atheism. Fact. Don't believe me? Then read about Muhammad and do some research. I did. I can talk. Also, although Muhammad and Darwin were both Christians for a while, they later become atheists, to some degree(see weak/strong atheism for more info).
Furthermore, you must understand that there are two theories out there: 1) evolution is correct and we all evolved from primordial soup etc...or 2) we were created by a divine deity (God). That is it. And you can't believe in both, it's one or the other, since one automatically cannot coexist with the other, they cancel each other out in a sense. Creationism requires a believe that God created you for a purpose, leaving no room for the other theory, and vice versa. My take.
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- Ford Prefect
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Creationism is not a theory. There is not a single person anywhere who can show you the hypothesis, tested and verified, that became the "Creationism Theory." There's a good reason for this, Creationism is not science. There is nothing bigoted about it. One is a verified fact, the other is a belief based on something written in a contradiction-riddled religious book.
I stated above what a theory is, stop denigrating scientific theory by claiming that whatever you want to claim is true is a theory. Theories are tested and verified explanations for things that we know to happen or know to exist. Evolution is a good example of such a thing. Gravity is, too.
I stated above what a theory is, stop denigrating scientific theory by claiming that whatever you want to claim is true is a theory. Theories are tested and verified explanations for things that we know to happen or know to exist. Evolution is a good example of such a thing. Gravity is, too.
Last edited by Ford Prefect on August 18th, 2009, 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
I am done with you then.
I thought that was only for Christians?
I thought that was only for Christians?
[edid] And I wouldn't necessarily agree with you here. For instance, circumcision was widely practiced in ancient times. And according to the old testament, God commanded the Israelites to circumcise the baby males on the eighth day of their birth. Nowadays, doctors have discovered that, indeed, the eighth day is the best time to undergo such procedures. And I personally now several doctors, so please don't respond saying I don't have the facts. Also, when the Israelites use to use bowls and plates with meat and other dairy products that could carry disease, it was commanded of them to throw away ones that were made of stone or clay (should they become contaminated), yet clean the wood ones with water and let them dry in the sun. Again, today, wooden chop boards are by far the cleanest, since the wood absorbs the bacteria, unlike plastic, clay, whathaveyou. The sun also kills bacteria. Just some examples.Creationism is not a theory. There is not a single person anywhere who can show you the hypothesis, tested and verified, that became the "Creationism Theory." There's a good reason for this, Creationism is not science. There is nothing bigoted about it. One is a verified fact, the other is a belief based on something written in a contradiction-riddled religious book.
Last edited by Dark_Nemesis on August 18th, 2009, 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Ford Prefect
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
So, what you're saying is that the guy who wrote the book of fables gave good advice that could easily be known by anyone of any time period by observation. "Oh, look, when we use wood, less people die! Hey, when we dry them in the sun, even fewer people die! Oh, look, if you circumcise them on the eighth day, less babies..." do whatever happens if you do it on a different day. A tiny bit of observational evidence can provide you with so much information.
Yes, I have a very closed mind. For example, if something is obviously (and proven) untrue, then I believe it to be untrue. If something is obviously (and proven) true, then I believe it to be true. How very unreasonable of me. How very bigoted of me to use the scientific definition of theory when using the word theory in relation to science.
On the other hand, it's perfectly reasonable for you to claim that a theory, which is a verified and proven explanation for an occurrence is "just a theory." That's like claiming Einstein was just a genius, or God is just omnipotent.
I like how you selectively and repeatedly ignore what a scientific theory is. How many times do I have to tell you what it is before you get it? Theories aren't "well, maybe it happened this way." That is what hypotheses are.
I ordered these this way because the second part is far more important. Read it and remember it, don't focus on the first half.
Yes, I have a very closed mind. For example, if something is obviously (and proven) untrue, then I believe it to be untrue. If something is obviously (and proven) true, then I believe it to be true. How very unreasonable of me. How very bigoted of me to use the scientific definition of theory when using the word theory in relation to science.
On the other hand, it's perfectly reasonable for you to claim that a theory, which is a verified and proven explanation for an occurrence is "just a theory." That's like claiming Einstein was just a genius, or God is just omnipotent.
I like how you selectively and repeatedly ignore what a scientific theory is. How many times do I have to tell you what it is before you get it? Theories aren't "well, maybe it happened this way." That is what hypotheses are.
I ordered these this way because the second part is far more important. Read it and remember it, don't focus on the first half.
Last edited by Ford Prefect on August 18th, 2009, 3:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Too long, did not read.
Teenagers debating religion without being high is extremely boring.
Teenagers debating religion without being high is extremely boring.
- Ford Prefect
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Well, thanks for coming by and sharing your ignorance with us.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
*Sigh....FORD, PLEASE STOP LASHING OUT AT PEOPLE!
Why is it so hard to simply keep your cool when talking?
Calling Storamin "ignorant" was not necessary. I'm not a mod, but I still don't want this thread to be closed simply because of one nasty post.
Why is it so hard to simply keep your cool when talking?
Calling Storamin "ignorant" was not necessary. I'm not a mod, but I still don't want this thread to be closed simply because of one nasty post.
And I'm not a teenager, at least learn to check my profile before making such claims.Teenagers debating religion without being high is extremely boring.
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- Ford Prefect
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
I am not a teenager, you are not a teenager, therefore he is ignorant for claiming either of us is a teenager. There was no lashing, I made a true statement.
If I were to call him a pathetic, disrespectful, and idiotic loser who needs to use mind-altering drugs in order to avoid his problems in life and that shouldn't waste our time with irrelevant filler posts when his betters are trying to have a real discussion, that would be lashing out. However, I didn't do that.
If I were to call him a pathetic, disrespectful, and idiotic loser who needs to use mind-altering drugs in order to avoid his problems in life and that shouldn't waste our time with irrelevant filler posts when his betters are trying to have a real discussion, that would be lashing out. However, I didn't do that.
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Re: Religion: The best of the best of the best sir!
Whatever.
But the mods may still think otherwise.
But the mods may still think otherwise.
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