Quietus Versus the Grim Brigade

[AlienFromBeyond]

Simply put, Avatar owns the crap out of the enemy on the All Pick games when their comp is UD and you have Quietus, as you can basically charm an entire push with it.

[aegir ravenking]

I thought Yak removed the turn undead???

Still that is rather sweet.

[aegir ravenking]

Holy shit, I was wrong. That is rather game breaking. Stole 10 units I think on my first cast.

[Dark_Nemesis]

I'm confused, are you talking about the control dead feature to avatar?

I haven't used it extensively (tend to max crit and gravebind for straight out dmg), but from what I could tell it seemed to be a very impressive skill.

Too, I'm not sure what the point is here. If it's to expressive a concern of the skill being overpowered, I may have to disagree until I tested and/or see some decent replays. Currently, I think the skill is fine. Ults are suppose to be powerful.

[aegir ravenking]

One of Avatar's bonuses is Undead Domination. I thought Yak removed it when he added Grim Reach. Has a chance to charm enemy undead units. Now there isn't much to charm normally(BP's summons, AM's restless skeletons, and wretched skeletons are the big ones I can think up right now). Nothing too wrong with that. The problem is in All Pick, you can fight the Grim Brigade while being Quietus. You pop Avatar, and now all the enemies spawns are undead. Also while I don't know what the % chance to charm enemies is, I do know you can get more then one at a time, and that it isn't just at moment you hit your ultimate.

Side note for you, you can also steal some of the AM's ghost thingy's from her infernal binding. But the only effect is if they haven't caste there spell yet, you will save an ally some damage, I think.

[Dark_Nemesis]

Yes, but we are talking about a 25% chance each time the game starts, and even then, it's not like it's another HOTM or Abberation. Too, it's an utl, so it naturally gets some room before being shot down as OP.

[aegir ravenking]

It isn't overpowered as much as it isn't intended. No other race has undead as units, and Quietus is supposed to be with the undead, so he can't normally steal any base spawns. When I mention the low power of that ability Yak told me it was meant as just a little bonus built into the skill(which is just a bunch of little bonuses lumped together, other then the halt death and newer grim reach)

Now, if it is a charm, then at least you don't get exp for the steals, and you are creating more exp for the opponents, but still, you can port to a base that is getting pushed, and rather then wail/GR/whatever AoE you have to kill them, you can just use you instant ulitmate, and steal anywhere from 10-100% of their attack force.
First time I used it I got 10 out of 15-20 in under a second. The other time I was in a crowd I got only 2 instantly, the rest were dead less then two seconds later.

I guess you could say it is a bit of a counter balance from his only getting half life back from his alter, but I don't quite think it evens out.

Edit
Just thought of this, you could now be against a Plight, and if he is with the undead, now you can steal his Abberations rather then just killing them instantly. Talk about screwed.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Not to mention if the guys you charm get any kills you get the gold. And they have no timer so you could theoretically build up a huge army. In this one situation the ultimate is too powerful, it's plenty good with all the other abilities in all other cases.

[Elreth]

They probably still count against grim brigade's spawn max :O Just shuffle them off to your main base a few times and eventually if you use it in one lane only they should stop spawning significant numbers of units altogether. I'll have to try that later!

[jamn455]

I would say the whole spawn restriction thing would work however possession works in ladder.

[Elreth]

I... wouldn't. I am not sure why you would? The spawn max is a custom trigger, why would it have anything to do with ladder? He probably just marks the units at some point around the time they are spawned and then checks if theyre dead. The only reason it wouldn't work is if he specifically put in checks for this kind of thing or used some kind of less obvious trigger that involves unit ownership in some way.

[jamn455]

I just figured that the skill could be based off of the banshee's possession skill. Yak is the one of the only ones that could answer this question for us, and he probably would have to look at it better to see how it actually affects the spawns. I am not sure how the food stuff changes under ladder when you possess an enemy unit, so it could either stay a part of its original team or it could transfer the food over to the newly controlling team that is what I meant by how it could be like the possession skill in ladder. Instead of would in my previous post, I should have put could, because I have no idea how it really works.

[aegir ravenking]

In normal Warcraft the possession and charm spells remove the units from the first army and the upkeep(food) is paid by the taking army.

[DarnYak]

EotA doesn't do what melee does, so it's irrelevant. I'm not sure whether it affects the spawn cap or not, but I suspect so.

DarnYak

[AlienFromBeyond]

Well at the very least it was able to take over all the Flesh Golems from a merc wave. That was nasty.

[Dark_Nemesis]

Well at the very least it was able to take over all the Flesh Golems from a merc wave. That was nasty

Lol, I'll have to try that sometime.