Naga Imbalanced

[Dark_Nemesis]

Hugely imbalanced currently.

Let's take a look:

[Dispell]
While rather hated by alot of people, this skill is actually a monstrosity agianst heavily buff-based heros. Almost impossible to get off a heal or HOTM without it being smacked away by a dispelling Oracle. Yak mentioned completely revamping the dispell system, so I'll shut up about this one for now.

[Heal]
The amount healed is actually quite high, though the dmg shocks could use a huge buff. A slight buff to the amount healed may even be necessary. Can't really play EotA atm, so if someone could scrounge up the numbers for this would really help. There is an Inf modifier, right? I don't play naga alot.

[Zen Archery]
Totally ridiculous. Hugely powerful. Blasting enemy AoE'rs for 500dmg crits (really easy) may, may be a little too much. Maybe attach a attack speed reduction or reduce the % slightly.

[Befuddle]
Ah, and now to the real reason of this post. This skill needs a nerf, can't remember the effects (all anyway). But I think we are getting -agil, MS, and Evoc (missed any?) the agil lost and the combined is totally too much. Against slow, Evoc tanks: Scarab, Reqium, RK, TC, etc, this skill is just too much. Nerf the agil lost at the very least. Preferably everything as well.

[Geyser]
Completely trashes any push. Totally. Without mercy. Reduce the dmg dealt the second time units run through it to 50%? Just a thought.

To balance her out:
Increase her base str gain. Add another effect to innate or scrap it. Revamp dispell setup(duh). Maybe a slight tweak to zen/heal.

Thoughts?

[aegir ravenking]

Geyser, yes massive problems against any thing computer controlled, evening porting in can be a problem as I think you allows appear at the same spot(I might be wrong there I am not sure). My thought is can it be made dispelable? That would at least allow some options besides dodging it and let the spawns die. Otherwise maybe making it channeled or giving it a cast time. May need buffed after that, but it is an idea.

The befuddle? Well I would really like the auto cast taken away. Other then that, I do think maybe no move speed lose(as the agility does some already) already. Really it is nothing early, and just very annoying later unless the Oracle is a damage build.

Ki Blitz is channeled, that is why it is so strong, also with it being an over time heal you can overpower it and of course AoE really screws it over.

I don't know enough about zen archery to comment, I only know of seeing it 3 times.

[Dark_Nemesis]

I don't think befuddle has an auto cast ability?

[aegir ravenking]

Maybe it was disabled during my absence, I don't think I have used her since I got back, will check at some point, but not tonight. I have a headache.

[Dark_Nemesis]

I have a headache.

Me too. I recommend Excedrin Migraine.

To my knowledge, naga never had a auto cast for befuddle, don't quote me on that, but I'm fairly sure. Too, if it gets nerfed to a reasonable amount, and auto cast option may not be a bad idea.

[AlienFromBeyond]

You think she's overpowered now? You should have seen her when she was first implemented .

[aegir ravenking]

Ya right, the overpowered Oracle was nothing, it was the super lag inducing Oracle that was scary.

Geyser FOR THE CRASH!

[Lanthis]

I'm going to have to strongly disagree, unless you're using one matchup against, say, the BP with her as your complete basis. While her ult is AMAZING, the rest of her skills are mediocre. Yeah, her arrow COULD crit for 500, but swashy can crit for 800 easy. She has no real crowd control, minus her damage enabled heal, which along with her ult are her two best skills. Note that without spending ?42? crystal to enable full damage, her heal is just a mediocre heal.

If I had to push against her sub-level 10, I'd be a bit upset, but after level 15 she'll just get eaten.

[Elreth]

Someone is unfamiliar with operation never stop hitting the naga. Her base hp is ridiculously low.

[Luftwaffles]

I mostly agree with what Lanthis has to say. Ki Blitz can be frustrating if she heals alone (since she gets to full so quick) but I can hardly hate it and call it imba when her base HP is the lowest in the game and her strength gain is negligible.

Zen Arrow is cool and has some insane damage if you get it high enough, but the DPS output isn't as high as other heroes. Geyser is her real redeeming quality, being nigh unstoppable and it just eats spawns (with a short cooldown) but even then, she's very vulnerable.

In terms of balance I think it's a stretch to call her OP but she certainly could use a bit more HP.

[Dekar]

Befuddle may need a nerf in movespeed reduction and duration.
-30% movespeed in addition to -50 agility for close to 40 seconds seems a bit too good. Dont know the cooldown, but not extremly long.
Ofc thats part of the whole dispel problem with stuff too good if let alone and too bad if dispelled.
And it does have autocast, as it always had. Could be removed.

Zen Archery could get increased mana cost and a 1-2 second channel time when turning it on, so you dont have such an easy time switching from/to it. You dont need that much mana with it anyway, but you stack int for more damage.

[Lanthis]

I thought about doing a Zen Archery build, but why? For hero killing? For creeping? There are other, better heroes to creep with, and better heroes to PK with. Plus, in Zen mode, you can't debuff any other heroes run speed, so they'd already have to be standing around debuffed. You could be a big siege cannon, but unless you have a ton of armor, you're going to get wrecked.

To make a Zen build at all attractive, you'd have to convert ZA to a skill like Keen Edge, or give it an extra 300 range so you could snipe, which would be totally imba.

[Dekar]

Debuff first, then turn on Zen Archery?

Massive damage is not only good against heroes without armor, but also against buildings.

[Dark_Nemesis]

Yeah, her arrow COULD crit for 500, but swashy can crit for 800 easy

Uh, 500/800 ratio is a little high, don't you think? Swash and Oracle have basically the same amount in base dmg (low to mid fifties I believe), and it scales fairly evenly. So If you say, you've got 2 int rings on Oracle, and a attack orb/attack helm on swash, they are basically going to do the same amount of DPS, the only difference is that Oracle has this:

-30% movespeed in addition to -50 agility for close to 40 seconds

AND is ranged. Swash may crit more frequently, but to my knowledge, their DPS output is basically equal.

Debuff first, then turn on Zen Archery?

My thoughts exactly. Lanthis, you act as though it's a huge issue to switch, it's like 1 second. And with that build, Oracle is easily one of the most deadly Pk'ers, basically nothing can get away. God forbid she buy the totem with this playstyle. And I would agrue Swash is far more vulnerable in terms of raw dmg. Oracle has 4 abilities that can prevent her (in one form or another) from taking heavy amounts of dmg: Heal, Geyser, Befuddle, Innate, not to mention the range factor (again). Swash has Dash, yes, a wonderful escape skill, but I tend to die alot more with Swash then Oracle, may be just me, but making a claim that somehow her low HP is a huge drawback is rather...untrue and inacturate(see listed escape spells above).

Zen Arrow is cool and has some insane damage if you get it high enough, but the DPS output isn't as high as other heroes.

I'd like a list then, as I can't really think of any...

[Dark_Nemesis]

Why are you guys bringing up the HP issue? I said to buff her hit points, it's not as if we disagree there

Poll added. Vote!

[aegir ravenking]

Ok, finally got a game as her, it wasn't pretty at all. I mostly just randomly clicked skills at level ups.

Anyway, yes Befuddle can be set to autocast, it don't have the autocast "look" but just needs a right click and forget(unless you up against more then one hero, then you can screw yourself very nicely). And yes the movement speed reduction is insane. I had Quietus outrunning Rue, with his haste aura.

Two notes on Ki Blitz. First, it isn't very good at healing single units anymore. It will only target something once a second, and from the description it caps at five targets per second. Nothing godly there at all.

Second, it targets Ice Wall, very annoying.

[Reaper]

Even with geyser, I've never thought oracle was remotely overpowered.

[Luftwaffles]

She dies really quickly if you shoot nukes at her : |

[Dark_Nemesis]

Ok, I so changed the topic to "imbalanced" instead of OP'd, though you can easily confuse one with the other. I think this is the biggest issue.

So...I added another poll, this one probably alot more appropriate.

[Lanthis]

Here are two replays from Zen Naga. Good, but I also think I outleveled everyone else by 5-15, and had almost all level 5 items.

[Dark_Nemesis]

Eh, good be a while until I can see them, I still need to buy my new computer. Might be able to steal my brother's. The one I'm using now isn't really able to run much of anything, sadly. Leave em up though. I'm curious to see them.

[Dekar]

Swashy has a 3x crit skill as well as massive attack speed increases whenever he uses Keen Blade and Pilfer, fully talented. He has far more damage output than Oracle.
His Dash makes him invulnerable, his Pilfer stuns his target, Mockery makes him able to kill enemys hiding in the largest pushes. He gets free HP, invisiblity and movespeed potions, even dispel scrolls. That should be good enough to survive a bit.

[Lanthis]

Positive ideas how Naga's summon can be revamped to be useful?

[DiscombobuIator]

Positive ideas how Naga's summon can be revamped to be useful?

I agree.

Like giving them extra abilities.

[Dark_Nemesis]

Yes, a nice thought. The only real concern I have is that Yak is planning to totally scrap the dispell system and implement a rock-paper-scissors concept, much to the distaste of the forum members (myself included). However, it would be nice to have certain dispells serve different purposes, kinda like we have now, to some effect at least. Ember's and Dryad's dispells come to mind first (Dryad's is broken, I know). To some extent, the Naga's dispell sort of touches on this, with the you-cast-a-spell-and-take-dmg format, but I agree, it would be alot more versatile and appealing if it were taken four steps further. Too though, I think that Yak should just implement a passive/active concept when dealing with dispells, and save the massive headache that could easily come from messing around with such things.

Swashy has a 3x crit skill as well as massive attack speed increases whenever he uses Keen Blade and Pilfer, fully talented. He has far more damage output than Oracle.

I stand corrected then.

His Dash makes him invulnerable, his Pilfer stuns his target, Mockery makes him able to kill enemys hiding in the largest pushes. He gets free HP, invisiblity and movespeed potions, even dispel scrolls. That should be good enough to survive a bit.

Meh, yes and no. And there is always the melee/ranged factor, and that alone is a huge plus.