Looking ahead - Upgrades

[DarnYak]

So upgrades will be coming back at some point (probably next, and only priority after e). My long standing policy is I want them to be something that the players care more about, other than just picking whichever happens to be the strongest one. This means one of two things: either the upgrades directly affect players, or it makes spawns more of a direct concern with how heroes deal with them.

Examples of the former: Teleport costs reduced, teleport delay reduced, etc.
Examples of the latter: Some unit gets short range truesight, priests get a heal hero spell, etc.

Note that upgrades won't have a raw form, they're likely to be bundled together for 3-4 effects for each upgrade.

DarnYak

[GeneralFunk]

You could make upgrades temporary with duration to make them more dynamic.

[Dekar]

I like upgrades.

[GeneralFunk]

Oooh! I know! Three upgrades, all races will get them: Rock, paper, and scissors.

[Darkblade]

Oooh! I know! Three upgrades, all races will get them: Rock, paper, and scissors.

I'd prefer more of a "rock, rock, rock" approach.

[DarnYak]

If i wasn't clear, i was looking for ideas.

DarnYak

[Dekar]

Something against AoE nukes, because the poor creeps get wiped out so fast. Like the defense boost for furbolgs and bears, but with magic resistance.
Or make it deal a part of the damage dealt to the hero, if you want them to stay aware.

[DarkNemesis]

Something against AoE nukes, because the poor creeps get wiped out so fast. Like the defense boost for furbolgs and bears, but with magic resistance.
Or make it deal a part of the damage dealt to the hero, if you want them to stay aware.

That might give more players an incentive to buy the magic robes, I know alot of people think that item is useless.

For Orcs (assuming Yak adds minimum four more heros) Something along the lines of bloodrage or something. Didn't the Fel Orces obtain red skin though some blood haze or something, like drinking demon's blood (Hellscream) and it cuased the effect to altar their body, maybe run with that idea, orcs and bloodrage always seem to go together. Also, I was reading on the WOW wiki that Fel Orces are suppose to be phyically superior, so maybe extra HP or Armor?

Elves and arcane stuff aways seem to go well, maybe mana regen and spell increase. I know they have all the AoE'rs, propbably shooting myself in the foot with this suggestion.

Undead how about a frenzy or canibalize effect of some sort.

Creeps maybe something in tone with nature. Like next to trees get bonus armor, true sight maybe, and random spawning treants?

Just some ideas.

[CryptLord1234]

I guess I'll throw some ideas down.

Heavy melee units(Bears, Knights, Aboms, Annihilan): I see these things, if they were to fit any role, as tanks. To this end, perhaps giving them a magic resistance, as has already been mentioned? This would make them live longer. Human players can't really be tanked, so maybe a hefty critical strike chance against heroes? (20-30%, if I had to slap a number on right now.) Something to make heroes with medium or low HP avoid getting into melee combat with them, yet at the same time, give them a chance to get away. Higher HP heroes could wade in there and have a decent time against them, but still need to be somewhat aware of what's going on, rather than just slapping on Rune Shell and going "LOL @ CREEPS!"

Heavy ranged units (Arachnathids, Archers, Fire Spawn things, Statues): The way I see these guys, they're meant for two things: Anti-air (supposedly) and ranged damage. To make Anti-air more successful, and possibly help counter massed fliers, giving them a short cooldown, medium duration ensnare that works on enemy flying units would, I think, help. As for doing ranged damage to a hero, perhaps something like an "Aimed Shot"? If it targets a hero, sits still for a short time, aiming, and then hits the target, doing some small damage to start and a DoT effect? It wouldn't be too large, as there are a lot more targets with this effect, but

Summoner units(Druids, Ghasts): These, I see as being able to put up a lot of soldiers, quickly. To further enhance this role, maybe give them a weak aura that supports their creeps? If this were implemented, I would weaken the spawns (Zombies, Treants) below what they currently are, but have the aura buff them over what they currently are. This way, they'd be a threat to your allied soldiers if ignored, but once killed, easily cut down.

Control units(Kodos, Shadowdancers): These are the equivalent of Summoner units, I guess. :S Anyway. They're supposed to annihilate single targets, but I also think they should have a bit more utility than that. I would suggest an upgrade that gives them the ability to 'demoralize' enemy heroes. When they kill a unit from a crit / consume, all enemy units and heroes nearby get their damage halved by a bit. Crowd control, and encouragement to kill them quickly.

Healer units (Priests, Tricksters, Lost Soul): Their job, in my eyes, is twofold: Heal creeps, and heal heroes. Doing damage could work as well. To this end, a healing aura for creeps would be good, weak but there, so as to keep the wave sustained, and a cast heal for Heroes would be good. If you want, throwing something that has a slight mana drain / mana burn aura might work as well. That way, they don't take much damage to kill, but they do keep heroes and units near them up.

There. My ideas and the theory behind them.

EDIT: Noticed a few mistakes. Corrected 'em.

[DarkNemesis]

I guess I'll throw some ideas down.

Heavy melee units(Bears, Knights, Aboms, Annihilan): I see these things, if they were to fit any role, as tanks. To this end, perhaps giving them a magic resistance, as has already been mentioned? This would make them live longer. Human players can't really be tanked, so maybe a hefty critical strike chance against heroes? (20-30%, if I had to slap a number on right now.) Something to make heroes with medium or low HP avoid getting into melee combat with them, yet at the same time, give them a chance to get away. Higher HP heroes could wade in there and have a decent time against them, but still need to be somewhat aware of what's going on, rather than just slapping on Rune Shell and going "LOL @ CREEPS!"

Heavy ranged units (Arachnathids, Archers, Fire Spawn things, Statues): The way I see these guys, they're meant for two things: Anti-air (supposedly) and ranged damage. To make Anti-air more successful, and possibly help counter massed fliers, giving them a short cooldown, medium duration ensnare that works on enemy flying units would, I think, help. As for doing ranged damage to a hero, perhaps something like an "Aimed Shot"? If it targets a hero, sits still for a short time, aiming, and then hits the target, doing some small damage to start and a DoT effect? It wouldn't be too large, as there are a lot more targets with this effect, but

Summoner units(Druids, Ghasts): These, I see as being able to put up a lot of soldiers, quickly. To further enhance this role, maybe give them a weak aura that supports their creeps? If this were implemented, I would weaken the spawns (Zombies, Treants) below what they currently are, but have the aura buff them over what they currently are. This way, they'd be a threat to your allied soldiers if ignored, but once killed, easily cut down.

Control units(Kodos, Shadowdancers): These are the equivalent of Summoner units, I guess. :S Anyway. They're supposed to annihilate single targets, but I also think they should have a bit more utility than that. I would suggest an upgrade that gives them the ability to 'demoralize' enemy heroes. When they kill a unit from a crit / consume, all enemy units and heroes get their damage halved by a bit. Crowd control, and encouragement to kill them quickly.

Healer units (Priests, Tricksters, Lost Soul): Their job, in my eyes, is twofold: Heal creeps, and heal heroes. Doing damage could work as well. To this end, a healing aura for creeps would be good, weak but there, so as to keep the wave sustained, and a cast heal for Heroes would be good. If you want, throwing something that has a slight mana drain / mana burn aura might work as well. That way, they don't take much damage to kill, but they do keep heroes and units near them up.

There. My ideas and the theory behind them.

I love these ideas. Crypt, you're a genius.

[Lunargent]

I would be completely in favor of ganking some auras from Sorrow Liege to give to some of the spawn tower or especially the mercenary creeps. Aura of Warding in particular comes to mind as being very useful for the tier 1 or tier 3 commander mercenaries. Perhaps an inverse of Aura of Warding to make the spells from the tier 2 mercenaries even more damaging.

[CryptLord1234]

Lunargent, that's a pretty good idea. I always felt that the captains should be something a little more, uh, leader-y. Auras would do that, although I don't know that stealing a Sorrow Liege aura or two would be necessary. A simple +armor/+dmg/50% magic resist aura (For creeps only!) would be fine. And that would be armor for tier 1 mercs, dmg for tier 2 mercs, resist for tier 3 mercs. In case anyone was curious.

Continuing on from my previous post: Fliers (Red Drake, Blue Drake, Dragonhawk, Frost Wyrm): I understand that you're experimenting with these yourself, Yak, so this is assuming they stay the same. When I was first introduced to them, I was under the impression that these were supposed to be anti-siege-weapon units. I'd think that we could make them be a little more like that, first by reducing damage, then by adding a critical hit ability (occurring fairly often) versus mechanical units only. That way, deploying them en masse like they currently are wouldn't be as effective, (and give the ranged guys more of a fighting chance), yet they would still be powerful for something. Upgrades I could see for this would be an Aerial Shackles-type move for using on buildings (Something short, like 2 seconds) or catapults/what-have-you (something longer, 4-6 seconds). Perhaps, to make them not entirely useless against ranged units, you could give them a short Cloud-like effect: Ranged units in the cloud can't shoot. Yes, they'd move, and then they'd kill things, but it would keep the fliers alive for a little longer.

Siege weapons(Catapults/Demolishers/Meat Wagons/(Whatever-the-elves-have): These, again, I see two purposes for: Besieging a base, or damaging hordes of enemy units. To the 'besieging a base' end, I could see a double-shot upgrade for catapults, which would fire 2 shots, but damage the catapult, or something a little less cool, like a damage increase. To the 'damaging hordes of enemy units' end, I could see a Burning Oil ability, which lights the ground on fire / putrefies it / what-have you to damage enemy units, or perhaps a short-range knockback secondary attack, to give it time to fire again.

As always, questions/comments appreciated.

[Eltonbrand]

I like crypts ideas, and the one about giving merc captains aura's is also a very good one. Why would upgrades have to affect heroes or units, why couldn't you have upgrades that do both? Just some ideas off the top of my head, for both of them:

-Reducing teleport cost, like you said
-Increasing the repair rate of workers
-Decreasing the build/upgrade time of structures
-Extra gold for killing units
-A group of upgrades that just upgrade mercenary strength
-Upgrades that would have a high cost that would make a 4th tier of merc units available, possibly making the current 3rd tier unlockable and making a different 3rd tier?
-Increase the rate units spawn at, just by a few seconds
-Reduce the cost of buying mercs