Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

So, does anything think that Naga is perhaps a little weak?

I know taht without Befuddle I was a walking PK against Swash, I couldn't escape him, kill him, even with an army around me.

So, other opinions please.

Well not every swashy is as cunning and ruthless as me! *ducks* But really she does seem like a free pk without some support or befuddle.

She has her good aspects, but I think overall, she is kinda lacking. Her ultimate is perhaps the sole reason you play her. Her heal isn't bad, but its channeling and silly compared to Shammy's. Befuddle is a great ability, and that combined with Zen Archery make her a dangerous DPS hero killer. Nemesis units have their goods and bads. The problem with Naga is she has nothing in the way of nukes or AoEs and she is very weak and susceptible to Agility heros. As you stated, swashy is ridiculous against her. Yes, she has Archery, but that ability is easily countered by armor, sadly.

She's great, except she has absolutely no health whatsoever which makes her seem terrible. She should be a tank. : D

*EDIT: She should be given a lot more Str., I think. She should really play like someone who can absorb damage. Then she would be scary, lulz.

I think, Ion, your thinking more along the lines of the Naga Mymurdians.

I am actually thinking along the lines of EotA's Naga, and am openly wishing she had far more health then she does now.

I personally tend to avoid playing her because her abilities are not that appealing to me.

Besides from power level aspects, maybe its because her skills are rather "passive"?

Normal right-click attack for Zen Archery, channel for Ki-Blitz, right-click and channel for Nemesis (and microing more than your hero, zomg!) , a single target debuff without instant reward as damage.

She's pretty fragile, 1 nuke and she has to retreat. A little more health can do her good.

Ion wrote:I am actually thinking along the lines of EotA's Naga, and am openly wishing she had far more health then she does now.

Well, in any event, both of DotA's Naga heros are currently better and more fun than ours...-_-

I agree with Dekar, shes quite boring. But the only way I see her becoming cool like the rest of the heroes is through a complete revamp. Or heavy revamp. Anybody want to put forth ideas/suggestions for The Yak?

Edit: Not sure if I like the extra health idea, yes, shes weak, shes a caster, its sort of the norm. Maybe a slight increase, but in the way of HP, nothing major. Spells, now that maybe...

Anyone here think she is kinda in the wrong faction? She doesn't seem like the UDish kind to me, but eh.

I won't deny Naga has some issues, but her basic playstyle isn't likely to be changed drasticly, only balance stuff. Befuddle is the most likely to get upgraded in some form.

DarnYak

Naga is allied with the UD because she had a prophecy where they capture the artifact, according to Eota lore. Read the hero info please.

She defects to the Elves side for Exodus though.

Yak, Beffudle is currently he strongest move I think, but I won't argue with a buff, since it isn't enough off a fuck off button atm.

So far the best build seems to be Zen/Beffudle with mash Geyser(gush) and 1-2 points in Ki.

Now Naga is an extremely defensive hero early to early-mid game. You should be teleporting around defending every push, this will let you rack up a crazy amount of XP, and due to the way Naga I find is heavily dependent on crystal (compared to every other hero in the game) I don't mind getting crystal generators; normally I'm anti-gens but in this case I'd make an exception.

Hopefully you can con people into merc and stuff for you so you can nab some items. Once again I see an exception, normally I'm anti-artifact as well, but I think zephyr totem is near-vital for her. Teleport lets her survive most situations that would lead to her demise, and the attack speed is what you want as well.

Aside from that, I would get Crit gloves (500-600 crits ward other heroes off), Orb of Skill, Mage Armor, after that I'm not sure what is best.

Crystal use I get int until its roughly 20ish crystal a pop, get attack upgrades (1-15dmg) and agi upgrades.

Finally, maybe boost her movement speed Yak? To let her escape more easily, she seems a little slow. I think she should be as fast as AM/AA/Dryad maybe.

Naga is allied with the UD because she had a prophecy where they capture the artifact, according to Eota lore. Read the hero info please.

She defects to the Elves side for Exodus though.

This is more or less right. The Naga were officially sided with the United Creeps, but they've always had decent relations with the UD, so they had a secret side pact of sorts. Oracle had a prophecy that the artifact would fall into UD hands, and thus strongly advocated throwing their full support with the UD. The Naga in general didn't like this idea, as the UD were by far the biggest threat to them post-Exodus (UC had water alies on this world, but probably couldn't/wouldn't care to take them along), so their safest long term option was to only ally with UD as a last resort. Oracle, sticking by her prophecy, went to the UD as an ambassitor of sorts, and threw what support she could behind them. When Elves captured the artifact at Stormwail, the Naga intercepted them on the seas and basicly said "take us, or we'll take it to the UC". The elves accepted.

Oracle, at the time of the Naga betryal, is still hanging out with the UD army. She basicly got the message, "We have it, now get the fuck out of there." Certain of her prophecy, she goes to the leader of the Grim Brigade (Halo Grimreaver), and effectively says "I know where the artifact is going, spare my foolish people and I'll give you details". UD accept. This results in a giant clusterfuck of a battle, with the UD having to rush to intercept and swarm them to stall the artifact, without any real tactics or the bulk of their real army (the UD were returning from Gloomreap, as well as various other engagements). The Elves eventually push through, with an extremey high amount of casualties (many of the Stormwail heroes were killed or MIA as a result of this). The Naga were vital in allowing the Elves to get through. Pissed off about this, with Oracle still in their hands, Oracle is slain by the UD and ultimately gets re-risen as UD Naga. So during Exodus, she's actually part of the assaults on the other sides of the castle. However, Twilight is set at the point in time of Stormwail/Gloomreap (they were more or less at the same time), so she's still a living Naga, just sided with UD.

If another Naga hero is ever added, it woudl be on the UC team.

DarnYak

Please give her more health somehow. Give her some way to not die horribly every 2m : |

Its seriosuly ridiculous, against someone competent with a PK hero, you can't really do anything.

Agreed Leek.

Even using a high lvl befuddle or attempting a Geyser while fleeing is questionable. Joram, for instance, seems to have a knack for instant rape. Inf...eh, Naga has clairvoyance, its up in the air. Fenris would be quite laughable. As would Treant, Scarab, damn, she does need something else. Harpy Queen x_X.

Maybe add a Backlash like, very short stun to high level Nemesi's Mana Flare?

I never see Nemesis skilled, so that may increase its popularity as well.

Nemesis isn't skilled because the elementals are complete garbage, even at level 6. Micro'ing them is a pain cause they're dumb, their skills aren't all that hot (they drain some mana, however they effevtively do 0 damage) and they die, so freaking easy its stupid. The skill is bad compared to her other skills, and its just bad in general.

I would beg to differ, Leek. While most of the time the skill is too...annoying? to use properly, I have seen it used with great effectiveness. Particularly against buffing heroes where the damn things just dispell anything you buff. TC and Grav have a horrible time, ridiculous.

Dekar wrote:and microing more than your hero, zomg!)

You can't 'micro' a single unit, it doesn't really make sense

Nemesis seems pretty bland. Not unuseful, just bland.

Aside from that, I would get Crit gloves (500-600 crits ward other heroes off), Orb of Skill, Mage Armor, after that I'm not sure what is best.

Crystal use I get int until its roughly 20ish crystal a pop, get attack upgrades (1-15dmg) and agi upgrades.

I really can't think of a better build then this one, Leek, its exactly how I play her. Though maybe 3-4 into Ki and less into (you put 6?) Befuddle. Depends on the game situation.

Geyser, Ki-Blitz and her nuke arrows are very useful and I don't think Befuddles trash, it just seems that way cause she's always dead.

The problem atm. is Naga and Troll have the distinction of being the weakest HP heroes in the game. Truth! The argument that casters should have less health is something I agree with, but Naga is just too low on that spectrum. Her Str. at Level 1 is 14 (= 380HP) but it only grows at a rate of 1.25. DW has a Str. of 18 (= 460HP) and it grows at a rate of 1.3 all game. This is a difference in almost 100 HP throughout the game.

100 HP is the difference basically between surviving a nuke and getting killed by one At level one AoO on a decent shot should take literally 2/3rds of the Naga's health, but only 1/2 of DW's health. I think also our experience with Naga before -ap also skews people into the direction that she's weak, since Elves and Creeps (Elves in particular) have a lot of nukes and AoE damage

Nonetheless, I think she needs to be given more health, and perhaps to adapt Nemesis to take damage for her or something.

You mean their magical origin allows them to redirect magic directed at the Oracle to themself, protecting her in return? *gasp*

Reaper wrote:You can't 'micro' a single unit, it doesn't really make sense

What exactly do you think micro means?

Befuddle is the most likely to get upgraded in some form.

Why the hell is befuddle getting upgraded? Maybe the Cali summer heat has affected Yak?

Bumped, I know. People around here can't get enough of her!

Really like the talent Str buff to Zen, Zen Naga is actually pretty fun now at high enough levels.

Would still like to see some changes done to her summon. The micro for controlling them, setting them up, activating them, keeping them activated does not make them beneficial enough to warrant using for anything other than a situational dispel. Trying to Voltron them all adds another layer of headache. Making them more like a combination between Rue Royal Guards and Treant Pixies would probably make them significantly more useful.

EX: They have to be summoned from corpses, can be dispelled, normally fly around and attack mana-having creatures for a tiny bit of damage (like infested stump flies).
Can be activated and when activated they assemble above the head of the Oracle, move with it, and actively damage spellcasters, or drain them, or something. Maximum number of anti-magic spirits = 1/2/3/4/5/6 + int /10-ish. Trade off is that when activated they are easier to dispel.