Skills I'm looking to replace for 1.12d

[DarnYak]

Currently looking to replace these spells. Some of them I have somewhat of a replacement idea, but overall not so much. This is half a checklist for myself and half welcoming suggestions.

Blazing Priest: Backfire (current repalcement idea: Self buff (undispellable): (probably) gives +healing receved, strongish defense of some sort, and some minor offensive boost)
Defiler: Devouring Plague (reworking to fill the same role but less obnoxious to targets), Frailty (current -str will be merged with one of his other skills, no replacement so far)
Incarnation: Avatar is going to become his new innaite, so he needs a new ult, Remorseless is getting scrapped, Gravebind needs some sort of buff
Martyr: Stuff, not sure what i'm doing to him, just adding him as a reminder to myself.

DarnYak

[Meckross]

As for the blazing priest

Selfbuff, If the prist uses any skill he generates a small shockwave adding dmg over time to sourrounding enemy units.

You can keep the dmg values of the old skill just a different way to fire it away.

[DarkNemesis]

With Blazing Priest he should, I think, have some sort of Dot heal, something along the lines of Rapid Healing, with maybe less potency and some other effect added to it, say evasion or lifesteal? He is a Priest, and while Flame of Devout is nice for troops, its kinda weak with heroes. Or maybe a heal the does half dmg instead of healing?

Martyr might need something to kill units more effectively. Same with Cleric, even hero killers like Harpy Queen, Assassin, and Wolf have some form of troop-killing spell. Just a thought.

Incarnation definitely needs a new ult, while her current one is kind cool, doesn't fit too well imo. An AoE dmg spell would be nice. It can be hard as hell to farm with her sometimes. Especially since I like to get her the Dragon's Heart, which is alot of gold. Oh well.

Gravebind
Soul Steal
Deals X dmg in an Aoe around the stunned target for x seconds.

Ultimate
Overpower
Gives surrounding allies a x boost in evasion and attack speed and gives a x percent chance for killed units to be raised as a ghost to fight for the Lich.

Just some thoughts.

P.S. So any idea when 1.12d will be out? Spring break, perhaps? New heroes for the Fel Horde would be really nice (cough, cough).

[Perhaps]

For backfire replacement, you could do an allied hero target [target self as optional], that give minor life regen, minor defense, and decent immolation.

For devouring plague, there's an ability that's already kind of like this, but oh well. Which it could be a unit target version, it would work the way it does now giving health and mana to the Defiler as a percent, the thing about it, is when the unit dies with it when another unit is near, the neighboring unit will get the d-buff.

For an ultimate for Defiler, I guess it could be the whole better skills for a duration kind of deal with some stats like Slow Poison and Poison for an attack. "Death Strain," Pestilence has an additional send to it, so like there's two pestilences bouncing around, same thing with the suggested plague like move. The Blight could do a slow effect to enemy units, half extra damage to structures, while the normal damage to structures does that much damage to units and heroes. Trap Corpse that gets created during gets a permanent status that when Trap Corpse activates with status a unit nearby will receive the plague like move adapting the effects of the level of the plague ability you have, if level 0 it'll just be treated as level 1. Exhaustion could have double the chance to stun instances with a mana degen.

For Forlorn Martyr, I has more crazy ideas...
If you streak through a polarized unit, the polarize on the current unit will be reapplied as a polarize that does 1/5th the damage, every unit after the unit Forlorn Martyr streaks though that's an enemy unit will also receive a polarize that deals 1/5th the normal polarize damage.

If you Thunderstrike a unit that has polarize the polarize will be destroyed doing [x + (y * int)] damage to the unit and causing a lightning nova that does [x + (y * int)] damage to units in radius. If Thunderstrike targets a unit with the 1/5th damage polarize, the damage will be 1/5th the effect.

If you Thunderstrike a hero in Ion Surge, you'll destroy the Ion Surge effect while dealing [x + (y * int)] damage to the target hero.

If you streak through a structure that is under the effect of thunderstorm, you'll do [x + (y * str)] damage to the structure.

If you streak through a a hero in Ion Surge, the effected hero will lose [x + (y * str)] mana.

Static Charge only discharges if you smart order to a nearby enemy target.

[DarkNemesis]

For backfire replacement, you could do an allied hero target [target self as optional], that give minor life regen, minor defense, and decent immolation.

For devouring plague, there's an ability that's already kind of like this, but oh well. Which it could be a unit target version, it would work the way it does now giving health and mana to the Defiler as a percent, the thing about it, is when the unit dies with it when another unit is near, the neighboring unit will get the d-buff.

For an ultimate for Defiler, I guess it could be the whole better skills for a duration kind of deal with some stats like Slow Poison and Poison for an attack. "Death Strain," Pestilence has an additional send to it, so like there's two pestilences bouncing around, same thing with the suggested plague like move. The Blight could do a slow effect to enemy units, half extra damage to structures, while the normal damage to structures does that much damage to units and heroes. Trap Corpse that gets created during gets a permanent status that when Trap Corpse activates with status a unit nearby will receive the plague like move adapting the effects of the level of the plague ability you have, if level 0 it'll just be treated as level 1. Exhaustion could have double the chance to stun instances with a mana degen.

For Forlorn Martyr, I has more crazy ideas...
If you streak through a polarized unit, the polarize on the current unit will be reapplied as a polarize that does 1/5th the damage, every unit after the unit Forlorn Martyr streaks though that's an enemy unit will also receive a polarize that deals 1/5th the normal polarize damage.

If you Thunderstrike a unit that has polarize the polarize will be destroyed doing [x + (y * int)] damage to the unit and causing a lightning nova that does [x + (y * int)] damage to units in radius. If Thunderstrike targets a unit with the 1/5th damage polarize, the damage will be 1/5th the effect.

If you Thunderstrike a hero in Ion Surge, you'll destroy the Ion Surge effect while dealing [x + (y * int)] damage to the target hero.

If you streak through a structure that is under the effect of thunderstorm, you'll do [x + (y * str)] damage to the structure.

If you streak through a a hero in Ion Surge, the effected hero will lose [x + (y * str)] mana.

Static Charge only discharges if you smart order to a nearby enemy target.

Wow, this is a really good idea, Perhaps, a fire immolation! Very cool. Great idea.

[DarnYak]

For backfire replacement, you could do an allied hero target [target self as optional], that give minor life regen, minor defense, and decent immolation.

Trying to stay away from more immolation effects at the moment, we kind of have a lot of them at the moment.

For devouring plague, there's an ability that's already kind of like this, but oh well. Which it could be a unit target version, it would work the way it does now giving health and mana to the Defiler as a percent, the thing about it, is when the unit dies with it when another unit is near, the neighboring unit will get the d-buff.

Looking more into something that doesn't take it all from one unit, and instead splits it among spawns. I have a rough idea already, just having difficulty with the details (and making it simple enought o understand)

For an ultimate for Defiler, I guess it could be the whole better skills for a duration kind of deal with some stats like Slow Poison and Poison for an attack.

Again, trying to keep away from these types of spells. Past few versions have kind of added a lot of these already, especially on undead.

For Forlorn Martyr, I has more crazy ideas...

This seems to be summarized as "make him have skills that work with every other skill of his". I have to admit, this is an interesting thought, and something i might very well end up doing, although not with your specific effects.

Polarize is going to get changed some, its current form seems damn near impossible to balance to my satisfaction. (assuming the new form will be any easier...)

DarnYak

[DarkNemesis]

Trying to stay away from more immolation effects at the moment, we kind of have a lot of them at the moment.

We do? I only know of like two or three.

This seems to be summarized as "make him have skills that work with every other skill of his". I have to admit, this is an interesting thought, and something i might very well end up doing, although not with your specific effects.

Polarize is going to get changed some, its current form seems damn near impossible to balance to my satisfaction. (assuming the new form will be any easier...)

DarnYak

This kinda scares me. Forlorn Martyr is pretty balanced imo. All the heroes are, except maybe Arcane Mistress or Dryad who either dominate some games or suck horribly in others, too situational. I'm not getting the suspected nerf hammer that seems to be aimed at Martyr.

[Perhaps]

Martyr does lack a bit.

All the concepts for Martyr are good, and I think could be made viable with combinations.

The point of streak + polarize combination, is to spread around polarize, so when a polarized unit dies, it's not so bad. Plus since if it's 1/5th the damage you'll get more damage total out of polarize if you streak through more than 5 targets. I didn't think of how higher levels of streak could better the combination, perhaps the amount of targets that can get the partial polarize effect has a limit, based on base of it plus the level of streak. So it could be like (5 + Level of Streak) for a limit. This would make both streak and polarize more desirable while still holding both of their same skill concepts. With this you could have AoE and mobility.

The point to polarize + thunder strike combination, is well similar to the above, provide but higher damage in tighter quarters. With the two you could have AoE, mild support and mild siege.

Thunderstrike + Ion Surge is to give the Martyr the ability to do ranged hero target, or go all out and attack the hero until the last moment and thunder strike for additional damage. This would give the hero good hero targeting, mild support, and mild siege.

Thunderstrike + Streak is well, mobility, mild support, and good siege.

Streak + Ion surge was a throw in.

The main idea of it is to make the less desirable moves, Streak and Thunderstrike that have good concepts, but just don't compare to the other moves as boosters to other moves. And of course both make polarize more viable of a move for hitting up army.

[DarkNemesis]

Polarize is a nasty ability even at early lvls, and since the Int-based increase is next to useless, you don't have to worry about funneling large amounts of Int into the Martyr, which seems kinda wasteful imo. Heavy Agility is much better. Ulta xD.

Point of contention. Martyr needs an AoE for troops. Polarize isn't bad, but overall, seems to be more effective against heroes than units.

[Dekar]

Thunderstrike is already quite powerful, it basically disables half of a giant push as well as heroes, and one on a building + ultimate with another one next to deals enourmus amounts of damage in addition to disabling everything that comes near for a long time.

Just make Polarize an AoE cast, applying polarize to all targets in the AoE if you really want to change something except streak. Not that itself needs a change, it can be put to good use against heroes. Its just so useless against units and heroes not standing inside a group of units ( situations not falling under harassing / keeping the enemy away from the battle ).

[Rockness]

I got an idea on how to rework Defiler's Devouring Plague.

Currently it drains 1% of total mana & health.

Leave the hp part alone as there are heals , potions & regen; but change the mana part to 1% of current remaining mana, so it wouldn't just feed the Defiler mana at such a steady pace or deplete the victims pool so rapidly. That way just spamming it willy nilly wouldn't be as effective as hunting a target with a high mana pool.

[DarkNemesis]

I got an idea on how to rework Defiler's Devouring Plague.

Currently it drains 1% of total mana & health.

Leave the hp part alone as there are heals , potions & regen; but change the mana part to 1% of current remaining mana, so it wouldn't just feed the Defiler mana at such a steady pace or deplete the victims pool so rapidly. That way just spamming it willy nilly wouldn't be as effective as hunting a target with a high mana pool.

Good idea, I like it.

[Discombobulator]

I got an idea on how to rework Defiler's Devouring Plague.

Currently it drains 1% of total mana & health.

Leave the hp part alone as there are heals , potions & regen; but change the mana part to 1% of current remaining mana, so it wouldn't just feed the Defiler mana at such a steady pace or deplete the victims pool so rapidly. That way just spamming it willy nilly wouldn't be as effective as hunting a target with a high mana pool.

Terrible idea, that would penalize people who keep some mana in reserve.

[DarkNemesis]

I got an idea on how to rework Defiler's Devouring Plague.

Currently it drains 1% of total mana & health.

Leave the hp part alone as there are heals , potions & regen; but change the mana part to 1% of current remaining mana, so it wouldn't just feed the Defiler mana at such a steady pace or deplete the victims pool so rapidly. That way just spamming it willy nilly wouldn't be as effective as hunting a target with a high mana pool.

Terrible idea, that would penalize people who keep some mana in reserve.

And who the hell is gonna be retarded enough to do that, you?

[Tehw00tz]

Did you really just ask who is going to be retarded enough to save their mana to use their spells?

[Discombobulator]

I got an idea on how to rework Defiler's Devouring Plague.

Currently it drains 1% of total mana & health.

Leave the hp part alone as there are heals , potions & regen; but change the mana part to 1% of current remaining mana, so it wouldn't just feed the Defiler mana at such a steady pace or deplete the victims pool so rapidly. That way just spamming it willy nilly wouldn't be as effective as hunting a target with a high mana pool.

Terrible idea, that would penalize people who keep some mana in reserve.

And who the hell is gonna be retarded enough to do that, you?

So your standard strategy is to spend all your mana and hang around the lane for the next 10 minutes, spending mana as soon as it's possible? Do you shout "Ha!" if a reckless Defiler casts plague on you, just to see that he's not getting any mana?

You might be countering him a bit too hard.

[Reaper]

DarkNemesis, cut out the insults

I don't think that is a great way to change plague either

personally I don't think it's that bad since it can just be dispelled like that

[jamn455]

If we want to go by that, you can use mana potions, as well as get items that increase mana regen. I think the majority of people dislike it because of how it drains both, I honestly don't mind it, but it isn't just the life steal, or the mana steal that people are angry with.

[DarkNemesis]

DarkNemesis, cut out the insults

I don't think that is a great way to change plague either

personally I don't think it's that bad since it can just be dispelled like that

LOL

I didn't insult anybody Troll,

Now I did. But you are one.

I'm not saying to spend all your mana at once, but saving for the sake of evading Defiler when you could be farming, killing heros, is beyond stupid.

[Leek]

My point of view is that % don't scale well in Eota.

Devouring Plague makes it lame as hell if your a STR Hero, it literally almost ruins the game. You get ass-raped by HP drain, you don't have enough mana cause your a low mana Hero. Overall it just isn't fun.

One big thing is that its too strong, has too long range for how spammable it is. Personally I would just get rid of it.

[Dekar]

I wouldn't care when DP gets removed.

[Perhaps]

But DP is hot. Especially when it's black on blonde.

Anyways, I think Devouring Plague would be fine if it was like I suggested, channeling so it's not so hit and runnish, but can be with the very mild version it applies at the start. >_>

[BlazingEdge]

1. How about replacing DP with some wicked poison, which damages the target every 0.1 seconds if it stands still? So to avoid damage target must run around (or backwards) like crazy = no damage dealt and if it run backwards it'll prolly loose exp.

2. does anyone use Fenris' ulti now? For me (i'm a noob though) it's useless. Care to change it a bit?

[DarkNemesis]

does anyone use Fenris' ulti now? For me (i'm a noob though) it's useless. Care to change it a bit?

Rarely...for me its max points into Lunge and Hamstring, with 3-4 into Howl. Most of the time I don't even bother with Run, and, of course, Ult. High Damage build usually, Warrior's Ring are imba on Fenny.

[Leek]

His Ult is quite strong if used properly.

What it does is it stops pushes. So you sit by the towers and cast it during a push, it'll wipe out the push really quickly. The reason everyone finds it so useless is because its so different from his role (PK'ing). Its actually quite strong at what it does.