Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

[quote="jamn455"]Whatever you say, I was speaking about strong Christians as a whole, but if you are that insecure you can take it that way.

I did not mean it to anyone on these forums, ANYONE, I just know many people who are like that and it bothers me that they think God is the reason for everything.[/quote]

And why should that bother you? Your argument against gay rights is that it won't affect me personally (even though it will because its infringing upon my right to oppose and label it as dangerous and unhealthy, but we've already been through that). So how is this any different?

Yes, I do realize you probably didn't mean it as a personal thing, but you make it sound as though a "Strong Christian" is a bad or negative person. Not to attack you or anything, but that assumption is entirely not true. Yes, Christianity in an organized form (i.e. Organized Religion) can and often is, for the most part, too judgmental and...sometimes, just downright hateful. My Dad's life and marriage were almost destroyed because of it, so I can speak from experience. So if your referring to a "Strong Christian" as the typical church-going-fear-God-or-hes-going-to-smite-you-with-lighting deity, then I agree with you. But if your labeling Christianity overall, then your gravely mistaken.

Now that I stop and think about it, this thread should have been titled [i]"Is Organized Religion Dangerous?"[/i] Again, this is rather broad. But at least its closer to what has been discussed.

That is what I mean. I label those people morons for having such a closed mind.

Man, its feels like the point a couple of folks are trying to make is religion enslaves a person or something.

First off, its called faith for a reason. You can't rationally prove that God exists- there will always be scientific evidence against it. At least I think so anyways. Maybe when the sky opens and a giant hand comes down, I'll say that is pretty convincing.

My point, though! Faith is believing in something that may not actually exist. We have faith that the brain functions to give us some sense of self and holds the information that "makes us who we are," but we still aren't sure how many facets of personality and the brain beyond actually work, we just kind of believe that the brain does all that stuff.

And faith isn't just for religion. Every time I open a box of macaroni and cheese, I have faith that its not going to kill me. I suppose that in this case God is an organization called the FDA and the Kraft Quality Control Department, but I've never actually seen the buildings that house either of them, nor any of their employees. Whenever a box of food says FDA approved, though, I think to myself "this is safe to eat."

Also, I've never seen evolution actually take place. But, I figure that it has got to be pretty damn close to the mark. I have faith that the scientists researching evolution aren't just trying to pull a really big practical joke on me.

And lastly, aren't we really just trying to manipulate eachother? I mean, if there are any theologians here, please speak now. Otherwise, we are all just normal people trying to convince one another of something with very little educational background, and the primary basis of all of our thesis' (thesises? thesi?) can all be turned into stories of "well, this one time when I was..."

Ocean.dll wrote:You can't rationally prove that God exists- there will always be scientific evidence against it.

There is no evidence for or against the existence of a god, and there never will be, because it is not a testable hypothesis.

But the topic isn't whether a god exists, it's whether religion (generally or specifically) is dangerous. It is not an acceptable ethical argument that because something is natural it is right; morality and reality are not 1:1. You could (incorrectly) argue that because animals kill each other, and we are animals, that killing each other is natural and therefore moral.

So, you see, proving the existence of a god doesn't win this argument -- proving that religion is not dangerous does. In a culture that puts warnings on everything from coffee to plastic bags, I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that.

And, like I said, faith is not necessarily a good or a bad thing. It is, however, potentially dangerous. The same faith we have in the FDA, police, firemen, etc. to keep us safe -- that same faith fueled Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, the Khmer Rouge, and countless others.

You really can't take such a simplistic approach to stuff like this, and say that religion is good or bad, true or untrue. You can only decide what's right for you, and trust other people to know what's right for themselves.