Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

Hammel wrote:Plight is just too slow too be really efficient, and he's got some mana problems, I think (dont play him and didnt see him played due to holidays), to make up for it, he needs Int/mana items... makes less str/agi items, and that takes the power out of his nukes...

Plight does run out of mana really easy if you do just nuke all the time. And, indeed, since he is slow he is vulnerable to DoT type spells, although degen could simply be dived (though TC would still get some good charge going).

Pheonick wrote:although degen could simply be dived (though TC would still get some good charge going).

That's the point, Dive slows him down... When he needs to run after the Degen, Ebb, Net over a cliff (so he comes to you again), degen again (or possibly Phase while he is at the ground, dunno if it works), Degen again... when he doesnt need to run, heal, Ebb, Degen again (and no, he can't kill you in that time). When he has backup though, run because then you might have a problem (you getting nuked or him getting healed). That doesnt count though.

When it doesnt work, get Tact to Net him while he is netted by you already... or call Aero for Hold... or go dieing...

Pheonick wrote:

Hammel wrote:Plight is just too slow too be really efficient, and he's got some mana problems, I think (dont play him and didnt see him played due to holidays), to make up for it, he needs Int/mana items... makes less str/agi items, and that takes the power out of his nukes...

Plight does run out of mana really easy if you do just nuke all the time. And, indeed, since he is slow he is vulnerable to DoT type spells, although degen could simply be dived (though TC would still get some good charge going).

I never had mana problems the time I played him, but maybe that's because I loaded up on an Orb of Skill and a Sorcerer's Robe.

AlienFromBeyond wrote:I never had mana problems the time I played him, but maybe that's because I loaded up on an Orb of Skill and a Sorcerer's Robe.

Exactly, you either go for damage or endurance. Unless you make a balanced build, which would require a good amount of gold.

Any balance issues you have with flying heroes have to do with the actual heroes, not that fact that they fly. This is accounted for in every aspect of the design: in the flying heroes, in the non-flying heroes, in the units, in the items, and even the layout of the map is pretty well-contorted to accommodate flying heroes.

There are many disadvantages to flying. Just get past the fact that it's a flying unit, and get creative with it. If you can't develop a good strategy, look at it from the other side and play as the harpy/plight for a while and see how people respond to you and survey your own reactions. It'll give you a good indication of what your opponent's objectives are and what he fears you might do.

"Know your enemy."

Kibiyama wrote:Any balance issues you have with flying heroes have to do with the actual heroes, not that fact that they fly. This is accounted for in every aspect of the design: in the flying heroes, in the non-flying heroes, in the units, in the items, and even the layout of the map is pretty well-contorted to accommodate flying heroes.

There are many disadvantages to flying. Just get past the fact that it's a flying unit, and get creative with it. If you can't develop a good strategy, look at it from the other side and play as the harpy/plight for a while and see how people respond to you and survey your own reactions. It'll give you a good indication of what your opponent's objectives are and what he fears you might do.

"Know your enemy."

Approved!

I almost always play as plight (as opposed to against him). And this is why I dislike him so much -- I've generally stopped picking him because he is too easy to win with. Tact is about the same. Maybe that's why I've stopped playing very much eota altogether in fact.

Stuff like that was novel at first, but now that these balance issues don't seem like they will be fixed any time soon, seeing them in play just turns me off from the game altogether.

To me flying seems merely like compinsation for their weaknesses, easy to kick down at the start. Both classes take a good ammount of effort without being contested let alone get smacked around at the start. What I find mostly messed up about Ascendant is its health and attack range. And on a side note, Soul Binder incenerate build is a natural counter for both of them, and Ice Spinner is a natural counter to Ascendant.

Just to quickly agree with whats already been said once or twice about nets pulling flying heroes to the caster. I've played games where if the gargoyle wasnt flying, I would have missed out on 2-3 kills because he wouldnt have been as affected by nets. Of course, this most often occurs on candleburg, where flying is at it's weakest- but its not like theres NO disadvantage to flying.

Just to quickly agree with whats already been said once or twice about nets pulling flying heroes to the caster.

I pwnd a harpy about 1000000 times as Tact with this , same thing would happen to Garg