Doodads

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Hammel · #1 Post by **Hammel** » August 13th, 2006, 2:06 pm

I suggest adding more doodads to the terrain to make it look a bit nicer (or did we reach the cap already?)

Today in WC3 a map doesnt just need great gameplay but also high grafical standards to catch the eye and heart of players. I know Yak is probably not going to do this, but to me it is worth a try

(and it gives me another post, but that is minor [in theory, practically not])

Now flame me for spamming

. Please.

-Ham

Shadow.M4L · #2 Post by **Shadow.M4L** » August 15th, 2006, 3:57 am

You got there a point, but i think the Terrain is ok for now.
You could do a heavy change and replace the cliffs with 90° cliffs so it look alot nicer but that is a hella work.

And "good" maps doesnt require nice Terrain just look at the "good" maps like dota or footy~ (i just sayed good because the people play them).

Hammel · #3 Post by **Hammel** » August 15th, 2006, 8:25 am

I guess you just made yourself some enemies here ^^. Nvm, DotA and footy are successful, not necessarily good (as you said).

I also think terrain is ok, but could you explain 90° cliffs? I dunno what that is supposed to be.

-Ham

mianmian · #4 Post by **mianmian** » August 15th, 2006, 10:56 am

He means the WE raid terrain level cliffs, I understand what he wants to do, but it would mean remaking all the terrain in Eota, wich I think would make Yak go insane.

NOTE: This is only on Stormwail, since Gloom, Kedge and Candle dont use the cliffs.

Footies dosent have nice terrain so muchas its very clean.

Dota has horrible terrain, I hate it, ashenvale FTL

Hammel · #5 Post by **Hammel** » August 15th, 2006, 1:19 pm

The DotA-terrain used to be worse. And like in EotA and Footy, it does its task = allow ambushes and escapes and stuff.

And yes, you are right, Footy terrain is way too clean. Still, it also does it's job.

So it is time for EotA to show something nice :/. Well, depends on lag and number of doodads already used and stuff.

Shadow.M4L · #6 Post by **Shadow.M4L** » August 15th, 2006, 2:54 pm

Well you cant give a map a better look just increasing the number of doodads... the map need workover some eyecatcher and highligts. You know I like waterfalls

But i think it will require alot of work to do this, and i dont know if he want to "waste" this time on terraining. But why you get the idea with a better Terrain? Because other Aos Maps, or just because youre a demi mapper now?

mianmian · #7 Post by **mianmian** » August 15th, 2006, 3:48 pm

I really dont understand why people have a problem with Eota's terrain not being nice, seriously what AoS's, or better yet maps have nicer terrain? or more varied? :p

seriously

-mian

SeasonsOfLove · #8 Post by **SeasonsOfLove** » August 15th, 2006, 3:53 pm

I love pretty terrain. Nice-looking terrain can be a great complement to a great map, and is always just good to look at. At the same time, terraining is something very few people are skilled at well enough to make a map look that great. Terraining is also really time consuming, and can cause map save/load time to increase substantially if a huge increase in doodads is used (EotA already saves/loads too slowly. Yak hates that. Can you imagine it being longer for him?). Would some pretty terrain be nice: Yes. Is it absolutely necessary: No, because the existing terrain functions well enough as-is.

Hammel · #9 Post by **Hammel** » August 16th, 2006, 7:55 am

BGB made a good point. All I have to add is that I remember that one of the reasons for Yak to stop is the ages it takes the triggers to load. Since doodads are loaded everytime you open the map, it would make him go crazy I suppose.

-Ham

CryptLord1234 · #10 Post by **CryptLord1234** » August 19th, 2006, 9:48 pm

Shadow.M4L wrote: You know I like waterfalls

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Gloomreap isn't too high in terrain, Kedge isn't either, I dunno what Candleburg looks like, which leaves Stormwail. I like the idea of a bit more water in the map, but it'd have to start on 'top' of the map, running out from a cave, down through the levels of terrain to the 'bottom' of the map.

Add to this the fact that it'd take more than one 'Waterfall' doodad to make it down a cliff, and a few other things: You should mask the beginning and end of a waterfall to make it look more authentic, and water isn't normally *completely* empty, so maybe some fish or cattails or something.

I haven't counted how many terrain levels there are, let's assume 5. That's maybe 8 Waterfalls, 16 'hiding doodads' (one at top and bottom of each Waterfall), and maybe 8-ish 'other doodads' such as fish/cattails.

32 Doodads may not seem like a lot, but add to that the work of replacing a path with water, and making it flow in a logical sense. This would change the terrain around a lot. Maybe you want that, maybe you don't.

I'm all for the idea of making the EotA terrain more interesting, but hesitate when using water doodads. Maybe a half-ruined village or something, but then, think about the size one of those takes...

mianmian · #11 Post by **mianmian** » August 19th, 2006, 11:26 pm

Theres a ruined mining vilalge on Stormwail now.

I think Yak wanted to avoid water, but if he DOES add it....

Boat towers!!

CryptLord1234 · #12 Post by **CryptLord1234** » August 20th, 2006, 5:02 pm

mianmian wrote:Theres a ruined mining village on Stormwail now.

...And that's what I get for not being part of the clan, and, therefore, not having the 1.11 test maps.

Shadow.M4L · #13 Post by **Shadow.M4L** » August 21st, 2006, 3:56 am

Woahw i just wrote what i like and you realy though that was my opinion what to add in the map?
Well i didnt mean it like that, but ok... but theyre so nice and heartly soft and sweet this taste~ oh i need to get down from my dream cloud

As example i like to take Stormwail since i played it much more then the others. And i think he can do a large step using the Tiles more.
My mind is empty now but hasnt stormwail only 1 texture for the "road" i mean a road in the mountains that is fighted why it isnt just a dirt track who did these stony things on it? I think atleast it is like this...
Another good way is mixing 2-3 tiles and then only use it for special parts of the terrain. (omg i hate my english...)

Like you take in ashenvale grass bushy grass and leaves as a ground for trees. And dirt grass dirt for they roads. Maybe you can even do it like this:

If kedges landing is somewhere in the sout of stormwail (just as idea) you could do the most south of the map in kedge landing style, and the northest part of kedges landing in stormwail style.

I know its about doodads but just doodads dont do it, look at "world of warcraft" there arnt many doodads the most of it is just ground textures.
Yeah ofcourse you cant compare wc3 with wow in the most parts but i think there isnt that much difference.

Well a history or story can help too creating something, i think stormwail is a part of the world where many caravans travel around and get attacked by creeps or am i wrong? If yes i dont care now since iam in a writing spammage.
So you could add broken caravans dead bodys using death ani with the locust ability or just doodads who look like dead people Oo.
Ok THIS is abit crazy.
Bu0t i think you get the point...

So i think iam out of ideas...

Hammel · #14 Post by **Hammel** » August 21st, 2006, 9:23 am

Stormwail Peak is really a mountain area (the name says it all, the peak of a mountain) in the rear-land (does that word exist?). Yak wanted to make the cliffs and height differences way stronger, but in WC3 that just isnt possible, because of the pathing, then because of camara and balance... He posted a screenie on his "Dream Stormwail" in one of the old forums and it was... extreme.

The creeps are just the natural inhabitants of the area around Stormwail Peak and the only forces Therivox (the great leader of the Creeps) could gather in such a short time until the Elven Batallion arrived (not the whole Elven army, reinforces are sent via gates, that is spawn towers, from other places of the continent).

The Harpy definately attacked Caravans (says her Ingame text), but I am unsure about the Furbolgs. Usually they are a bit more peaceful, but I dont know what they are exactly like in the EotA world.

-Ham

mianmian · #15 Post by **mianmian** » August 21st, 2006, 11:10 am

Think you could russel up a this screenie H4m?

Hammel · #16 Post by **Hammel** » August 21st, 2006, 12:27 pm

No, didnt download the screenie of Yak's Stormwail Idea... and I don't know where he got the idea from, you must ask him for one... I just remember it was some kind of RPG I think, at least it looked like it.

Dekar · #17 Post by **Dekar** » August 22nd, 2006, 2:44 pm

It was a screenshot from the WC3 beta where the humans are in the front of the picture seperated from the undeads in the bottom of the picture through a gap in the icy mountains.

And "rear-land" = hinterland

mianmian · #18 Post by **mianmian** » August 22nd, 2006, 6:01 pm

Think you coudl russel it up Dek?

Much appreciated

Dekar · #19 Post by **Dekar** » August 23rd, 2006, 3:29 am

Hammel · #20 Post by **Hammel** » August 23rd, 2006, 7:59 am

Yeah, I guess it was such a screenie... or maybe that one, not sure (since you got it out of a german newspaper's online portal).

And I wanted to say "Hinterland" in English, I was just unsure whether rear-land was the right phrase ^^.

-Ham

Dekar · #21 Post by **Dekar** » August 23rd, 2006, 9:40 am

There arent many WC3 beta screenshots around and i bet you can find the picture on the website of every average gaming magazine or pure online gaming sites.

And the german hinterland = english hinterland.

Hammel · #22 Post by **Hammel** » August 23rd, 2006, 10:07 am

Dekar wrote:And the german hinterland = english hinterland.

Wow... well, poltergeist and angst are also the same words, but... wow... anyways, this is off-topic and too spammy.

From what I remember we can close this thread and say: The terrain looks good enough for an AoS and EotA lags enough, so more doodads are not too helpful. Maybe closing this thread isn't that good because I need place to spam, but still ~~.

-Ham

mianmian · #23 Post by **mianmian** » August 23rd, 2006, 11:00 am

Thanks Dek

btw: Those Knights look weird :p

Hammel · #24 Post by **Hammel** » August 23rd, 2006, 11:27 am

Guess that's why I didnt think it was from WC3 ~~ Heroes also got changed (Elven Ranger) later, and UD units/hero model... I mean a winged lich and revenants?

Still, somehow the screenie looks cool... like it got a bit better graphics than normal WC3 ^^.

-Ham

#25 Post by **DarnYak** » August 23rd, 2006, 2:03 pm

Yea, that' screenshot was at least part of what made me want to make stormwail mountainous.

The main problem isn't that its impossible to do (although lack of bridges you can travel under dont help), but the massive sizes required makes it near impossible, and all of it is wasted on an overhead camera. The pathing was also a huge problem.

And Stormwailhas some roads because of mining operations...however, most of it would in fact be a mix of broken roads and dirt trails. The roads however are extremely prevalent just for players to not get lost. I've always wondered how people get lost in EotA..just follow the spawns, or if that fails stick to a road. Gloomreap obviously doesn't follow this, but by that point Isaid "if people get lost on stormwail they'll get lost anywhere"

DarnYak