1.10 -> 1.11 complaints

[DarnYak]

thanks to short for suggesting this idea to me.

I get a ton of complaints about how much worse 1.11 is compared to 1.10. Most of these are pretty damn spread out all over the board, making it hard to sort out. So i'm dedicating this thread to these complaints, and ask all of you who hate 1.11 so much to post why here. List of changes here, please cite references

If you're issue is UD balance, I want to hear about it but not in this thread. I never expected UD to be balanced on the first release, its acutaly been better then i expected, and that will be fixed in the future. If you're issue is army upgrades, I don't want to hear about it at all. Everything else please tell me. Performance issues (lag) are a valid complaint I want to hear listed here also.

DarnYak

[DarnYak]

Everyone loves 1.11 apparently, cool.

DarnYak

[BLUEPOWERVAN]

Hm, you disqualify most of the reasons people disliked 1.11, wait 5 hours and complain that nobody posted anything.

The post is kinda silly... the people that really disliked 1.11 don't hang around the boards investing themselves in the community for the most part. People hanging around here already love the game in general... So, while there may be some things they would rather were different, you won't really get people that can't stand the game.

I certainly fall into the category... I could repeat things people who really hate 1.11 said, but apparently the first rule of "why people hate 1.11 club" is "don't talk about why people hate 1.11 club".

[Tehw00tz]

My reason for disliking 1.11: I feel the effort, time, and creativity could've went into the already existing races.
I don't like undead.

[jamn455]

lag on candleburg, I know my computer isnt the greatest, but alot of people have problems after so long on candleburg.

[DarnYak]

Hm, you disqualify most of the reasons people disliked 1.11, wait 5 hours and complain that nobody posted anything.

Mostly to bump it to make sure people who ignored this think again about posting. Further, it was far more then 5 hours, and the only issue I disqualified was upgrades (ud balance issues i said bring up in another thread, other issues involving ud that aren't raw balance belong here)

DarnYak

[LordSuzaku]

I vote that the noob popup from holding an instruction scroll should be changed to something more humiliating and insulting to the noob that doesnt wanna learn. Maybe "I'm gay" or something. (Not that I have anything against gay people.)

[BLUEPOWERVAN]

1. Well, since you said we couldn't talk about upgrades, I will talk about the related unpopular issue: homogenization of the units. Units are no longer unique little flowers, they are now basically just cut and dry copies of each other... side a has a melee unit with 200% hp 100% damage, it also has a ranged unit with 150% damage and 100% hp, a ranged unit with 75% hp and polymorph, side b has the same crap. Unit balance used to be beloved of eota, different #s of footmen vs furbolgs belied an overall effort to achieve diverse but equal outcomes. Seems like 1.11 just rolled all that back, genericizing all the spawn tower troops, and adding an undead side which is basically a copy of existing side.

2. Since I can't talk about undead imbalance, I can talk about imbalance overall. People also felt undead were buggy, and the game laggy, but really there is a whole forum dedicated to bugs -- you asked for concrete examples, and frankly they don't belong here. Concrete bugs sit in the bug forum and get dealt with. New skills and rebalancing of existing heroes seems like it often was a step backwards rather than forwards. Maybe it was just cast in the light of the undead, but who knows, that was an impression.

Significantly farther back at #3
3. Map issues --
a)Candelburg. 1 lane kedge sucked, and so a true 1 lane map got added? 1 lane, forever... almost always determined by hero combination... frustrating and drawn out, the smallest least complicated map is often the longest = boring.

b) Removed obelisks from gloomreap. Obelisks were generally a hallmark of EOTA, and they went from being featured in 2/3 maps to being in 1/4. Peon harvesting not really working out well. If I wanted to micro-manage and resource path peons all game I'd still play standard wc3. Generally, if you are trying to pay attention to them, you just look up every 5 or 10 minutes, and either they've all been slaughtered or they haven't ... there's maybe a 25% chance you notice they are someplace they shouldn't be and can be or should be saved -- then you wrestle with trying to order them around for 5 minutes while your hero sits auto attacking or getting ambushed. Seems like one team or another just gets unlucky about their peons picking a dumb patch to harvest, and the other team easily overwhelms them with spawn advantage. The whole thing plays out randomly or at least in a fashion that is hard to track, notice, make sense of, and the micromanagement is unwanted.

Vets like obelisks, because you can easily track the status of the teams with -o, and having a peon build a tower is not so much micromanagement as it is a strategic investment.

4. Overall, not only were some things taken away (stability, balance, troop variety), the most glaringly unpopular aspect of the map (newb unfriendliness) remained basically unchanged. Tons of newbs downloaded 1.11, and left during the 90 seconds of hero picking, or 20-30 seconds of startup cpu lag, or shortly after landing in a huge town with waves already spawning in 5 different lanes and real idea where they should run to first, or how they should spend their money since it doesn't have a traditional aos permanent item recipe system, or what all those resources are and how to get them. Plenty others left early midgame after being severly underleveled or over-killed compared to vets who knew the teleport system and temporary items. "Newb!" popping up over a couple newbs heads every 10 minutes was not exactly a panacea.

[DarnYak]

Well, since you said we couldn't talk about upgrades

I should have said this to begin with: I don't want to hear about upgrades because as i've said before, they're coming back after the talents version most likely.

Since I can't talk about undead imbalance

Just to be clear, I want people to talk about them, just I don't want to hear them in this thread in general. At least, I don't want to hear specific things. "Gargoyle is imbalanced, hence 1.10 > 1.11" is a valid arguement, but not one i feel is going to help put things in any sot of perspective. "Swashy is imba in 1.11", on the other hand, has a direct comparision to his 1.10 version, so I can at least look at it and say "ok, this is why people are unhappy". Perhaps I should have phrased the question more in terms of "if ud didn't exist in 1.11, would you still consider it a downgrade from 1.10, and if so why?", as i've got a good enough concept of why ud makes people unhappy, and am trying to find resolutions to those issues.

I dont have anything to add to your points themselves, as this is a feedback thread ;P

DarnYak

[BustroQuick]

Whenever I play 1.11, the games usually end in everyone leaving from lag rather than actually finishing the game...in 1.10, it didn't seem like this was the case.

[DarnYak]

Whenever I play 1.11, the games usually end in everyone leaving from lag rather than actually finishing the game...in 1.10, it didn't seem like this was the case.

I'm actively tryng to track this down, as i've seen it too and i dont know where the hell its coming from . So I will take this time to once again beg everyone who experiences games like these to post about them in the sticky in the bug report forum.

DarnYak

[UEatUrOwnFarts]

lol, I don't mean to sound harsh, but I feel that EotA 1.10's problems should have been fixed before a completely new race was added. Like stacking mines on infiltrator T_T that does more damage than any int based caster(divine, incarnation, etc.) will ever do. =/ this reply may not belong here, and I'm not saying that 1.10>1.11 because no really big problems were added, but the standard ones in any aos were never fixed.

Edit: Idea that popped up. Why not give the mines, instead of ONLY increased damage, increased chance to blow up? Such as add dud mines, that don't blow up, or give them the same properties as "wail" that affects some units and stuns others. This could add some protection against massing mines within the first 5 minutes of the game. =/ such as..... level 1 = 50% chance of a good mine, level 2 = 50% chance of exploding, level 3=60% chance of exploding, level 4= 75% chance of exploding,
level 5 = 80% chance of exploding, level 6= 85% chance of exploding.

Then "just" make it so the mines use random effects that get more powerful with level, like stunning, regular damage, slowing, shrapnel, etc.

I mean lets face it, theres no way the infiltrator carries 500 mines in a backpack made from a factory in the middle ages or so...I don't see how she would get mines in the first place.

[Dekar]

I mean lets face it, theres no way the infiltrator carries 500 mines in a backpack made from a factory in the middle ages or so...I don't see how she would get mines in the first place.

Yeah, and all that magic stuff should also be removed, theres no way they did that in the middle ages.


Mines do not only require a setup time and have a 2 second "channel" duration, unlike other AoE spells, they can also easily be countered by detection items or even by watching the Inf, as she should stay near combat to gain exp.

[Hammel]

Play Neph and use False Alliance on the Infil... it is hilarious. She cannot AoO you, you see ALL the mines and you can kill them (without losing False Alliance)...