Neverending Sieges - Again

[Dekar]

I dont know if its limited to Stormwail or not, but I experienced already some neverending sieges. This may be due to the Undeads imbaness ( the 2 sieges i remember were both undead loosing ) so you cant enter their base without them killing you. Another aspect may be obelisk disadvantage during the game for the winning team, so the defenders have all bases full of towers.

The longer the siege takes, the bigger gets the advantage for the defending team, as they get far more experience and they may then even be able to strike back.

[Something]

It'd be equal experience gain, considering the only things that give experience are the default spawns. Also, if they're stuck defending one lane due to more army, other people on the offending team could be defending/pushing other lanes that aren't as cored, or cored at all, which means they are getting more experience because they'd be encoutering masses of experience more often than the defenders.

[mianmian]

It'd be equal experience gain

Do you even play the game?

Seriously, if you have ever played Eota, theres 2 ways to out level people, 1 stay in constant battle, and 2. Stop pushes.

Now lets see, if 1 team is constantly defending there always in battle so there soaking up more XP.

Yes the net amount of XP is the same, however heroes dont always receive the net XP. Seriously go play a game of Eota.

[DarnYak]

Assuming we're talking about a game where bases have fallen, there IS an exp difference. Every outpost destroyed lowers the potential experience for the team that destroyed it. Every outpost built raises the potential experience for the other team. Tower kills reduce exp gain if you're on defensive too much.

DarnYak

[Something]

It'd be equal experience gain

Do you even play the game?

Seriously, if you have ever played Eota, theres 2 ways to out level people, 1 stay in constant battle, and 2. Stop pushes.

Now lets see, if 1 team is constantly defending there always in battle so there soaking up more XP.

Yes the net amount of XP is the same, however heroes dont always receive the net XP. Seriously go play a game of Eota.

And if you're constantly pushing, while they are constantly defending.. Hmm, well, both sides are in constant battle.. Damn..

[Tehw00tz]

You cannot constantly seige unless your playing Candleburg, Computers, or really bad people.

Maybe you should use the system ToB had, if your camping by a tower you should gain less EXP.

[BLUEPOWERVAN]

Tower kills reduce exp gain if you're on defensive too much.

DarnYak

[Tehw00tz]

do'h

[Demongod86]

What the hell?! Why is it that just about every single aspect of EotA punishes the defensive team?

You don't get GOLD OR EXP for killing the FAR SUPERIOR spawn tower units, if you're on the defensive, it means the other team gets MORE tower cores to bombard you to hell with, and now, if you're trying to defend a base, they get more exp than you because they're away from a couple of towers?!

WTF IS THIS SHIT?

Can the defense get some help here?

[Dekar]

1) Its not like the heros need the towers to defend the mainbase, if they 5-7 spawntowers and 1-2 heroes on each side.

2) Attacking team killed all outposts but the 3 in the mainbase. Defending team killed none. Defense team has 7 outposts less = 70% less exp for attackers?

3 for demon) Spawn units dont give exp/gold because you would reward the other team by using tower cores then. And offensive leads to core advantage leads to more offensive power, so defenders defend because they defended!

[Demongod86]

...

"Our spawns are giving the enemy gold and experience! Let's TK all our outposts so we don't spawn units!"

Same logic going on there.

[Strychnyne]

You can't attack your allies to take down the bases anyways.

For the last time, spawn towers don't give gold/exp for a very good reason. Can you not see that if they did, the other team would getting an advantage? The whole reason you can GET tower cores in the first place is because your team managed to triumph over the other one and hold on to an obelisk. By your logic, because I managed to capture the obelisk, my opposing team should get a wack load of experience and gold in return? Why should they get a bonus for failing?

Now, let us say, for arguments sake, that Yak decides it IS really unfair for that poor defending team to get nothing. If he instated that, the game would go on forever. If for every positive thing the attacking team does, the defenders get a positive, you're going to have hours and hours and HOURS of gameplay. Trust me, I've seen it in earlier versions. Why not, when ever a hero is killed, THEIR team gets the gold? I mean, it's only fair. They've just lost a hero, they should get something to help them play better, right?

[Tehw00tz]

What the hell?! Why is it that just about every single aspect of EotA punishes the defensive team?

You don't get GOLD OR EXP for killing the FAR SUPERIOR spawn tower units, if you're on the defensive, it means the other team gets MORE tower cores to bombard you to hell with, and now, if you're trying to defend a base, they get more exp than you because they're away from a couple of towers?!

WTF IS THIS SHIT?

Can the defense get some help here?

ALTHOUGH CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL, YOU STILL HAVE TO STEER

[Demongod86]

You can't attack your allies to take down the bases anyways.

For the last time, spawn towers don't give gold/exp for a very good reason. Can you not see that if they did, the other team would getting an advantage? The whole reason you can GET tower cores in the first place is because your team managed to triumph over the other one and hold on to an obelisk. By your logic, because I managed to capture the obelisk, my opposing team should get a wack load of experience and gold in return? Why should they get a bonus for failing?

Now, let us say, for arguments sake, that Yak decides it IS really unfair for that poor defending team to get nothing. If he instated that, the game would go on forever. If for every positive thing the attacking team does, the defenders get a positive, you're going to have hours and hours and HOURS of gameplay. Trust me, I've seen it in earlier versions. Why not, when ever a hero is killed, THEIR team gets the gold? I mean, it's only fair. They've just lost a hero, they should get something to help them play better, right?

You can simply fail to defend them. Just so you'd spawn less of those gold-giving basic units.

You'd get the spawn towers because you captured an obelisk.

Your opponents would get gold and exp not because you have a spawn tower, but because they managed to kill the unit, just like they kill a basic footy or sorc or furbolg.

If you have map control, the extra gold your opponents will get from spawns won't make up for the fact that they *will* be getting pushed back, and that you would have crystal generators running from extra ob control.

[mianmian]

And if you're constantly pushing, while they are constantly defending.. Hmm, well, both sides are in constant battle.. Damn..

What Yak said, I didnt mention it, my bad, though it was obvious sorry

The bases are down, when your defending there are more spawns attacking, and less mobs defending, I should have said it but I didnt

Demon we understand you bloody hate the snowball effect, its been discussed before, now personally I wouldnt mind a review of it but w/e

[Demongod86]

Put it this way:

How fun would watching professional sports be if every time a team scored a goal they got an extra player?

It's an extremely simple analogy.

[Tehw00tz]

For one if were talking about American football here that'd be a penalty.

[Shadow.M4L]

Also football sucks... +1^^

[mianmian]

Also football sucks... +1

Life isnt fair Demon, its a fact of life, that you will have to deal with eventually ~~

[FutatsuNoOmoi]

What's wrong about offensive encouragement? I think more games need it, makes for more progressive games, rather than lame sit and wait, be the last to make a move and win wars.

[Something]

You can't attack your allies to take down the bases anyways.

Actually, you CAN attack allied units and structures. It cancels your attack, sure, but with fast enough units, you can do damage before it's actually canceled. And it's easy to continue spamming the attack as well. This doesn't make up for the fact that'd be a lot of work though.

Also, you have to remember things that damage friendly units too, like mines. Still.. Work.. Possible though!

[Emufarmers]

You can't attack your allies to take down the bases anyways.

Actually, you CAN attack allied units and structures. It cancels your attack, sure, but with fast enough units, you can do damage before it's actually canceled. And it's easy to continue spamming the attack as well. This doesn't make up for the fact that'd be a lot of work though.

Also, you have to remember things that damage friendly units too, like mines. Still.. Work.. Possible though!

That's just a minor design defect: Yes, you can probably attack friendly units if you try hard enough, but given the lack of compelling reason to do so, there's no need to have more of an attack block than for simply preventing an accidental misclick. If towers were made to feed, then yes, I'm sure any attack-allies holes would have to be filled. Does that really affect Strych's argument?

[Something]

I think the question is: Does your comment fit my comment? Note the comment there, because it wasn't directly made towards any argument. So, no it does not!

And it can be a problem very easily. Some classes can quickly kill their own allies, so, it pretty much allows backstabbing. Booting the player is an option, but I hate having computer AI. Doesn't mean the player wont just leave instead I guess. I've never seen anyone try to backstab though on EotA. Foddering is a better method to it anyways! Give them 400 gold and crystals.

[mianmian]

I've never seen anyone try to backstab though on EotA.

Thats because its impossible (with the exception of mines) as previously stating.

Yes feeding the other team is worse, but I've never seen someone do it on purpose.