Useless spell thread

[aegir ravenking]

I've had the "pleasure" of going against both super strength Gravel and Bane (separately, same player just wish I could remember who). Gravel leveled much quicker but ya, late game Bane is just insane. Does his breath have a bigger AoE then Pebble Chuck? As versus Gravel at least some of my spawns didn't get one hit ko'ed.

It really sucked when even my Promoted spawns were one-shoted. Still Gravel was easier to survive, but harder to kill and much harder on the bases.


I know we lost against Uber-Bane, but I can't remember the outcome of the Uber-Gravel game.

Still seeing an echoed vengeance was worth the lose, Bane survived it, but fell a few seconds later.

At Yak:

Don't think I am putting you or the game down, but sadly I think the best thing would be to try to redo the whole AoE buffs/debuffs vs dispel vs AoE in one shot, as they remind me of the Mr. Burns doctor diagnose...The pros/cons of each keep the others in check so the game stays rather "healthy" right now, redo any individually and it would kill the patient. I just don't even want to think about the amount of work that would take.

[Soulbourne]

I likes the pebble do to range against those heros with 200 life left....Gravel if horribly slow...

[DarnYak]

At Yak:

Don't think I am putting you or the game down, but sadly I think the best thing would be to try to redo the whole AoE buffs/debuffs vs dispel vs AoE in one shot, as they remind me of the Mr. Burns doctor diagnose...The pros/cons of each keep the others in check so the game stays rather "healthy" right now, redo any individually and it would kill the patient. I just don't even want to think about the amount of work that would take.

Believe me, that's something I already consider for work going foward. But to redo it at this point is a mix of nearly impossible and a giant mess.

Spell damage values in EotA were originally much, much lower. Problem was people hated 1.0 so much because it was so slow, and the map needed to be changed for this reason. This is related to the fact that the original design intended multiple heroes working together to AoE and the like, but that doesnt happen so much in practice. The original complaints about slowness were probably more related to slow building destruction and rebuilding, so changing it back may not be imbalancing, but..

I suppose it also wouldn't be too hard to set things back the way they started in order to try and rebalance things, as it was changed way back then and probably only took a day. And any spell that's been re-written since then is easier to update (but changing tooltips is one of the most tedious jobs in EotA). I honestly dont know if it'd be worth it at this point though, as it would obvously fundimentally change the game.

DarnYak

[Meckross]

Well you always can make one test version where you change it back. Hand it out to some of the clanners for a few test matches n we review if it was made things worse or better.

[A_New_Dawn]

I know, its just crazy when Bane or Gravel survive Vengence and or Echo (which they often do) then turn around a smack you for 700 or more...

Love Bane, my favorite Creep Str and one of my favorite heroes overall.

Creeps
Bane
IceSpinner
Udead
Forlorn Martyr
Prince Rue
Elves
Alexander
Chrona Timebender

I know it doesn't increase dmg, but it decreases armor and doesn't that cuase them to take more dmg? maybe Im wrong..

[Casval]

NECROPOST

Blade Rain on Grim Hag. It's probably the worst AoE damage spell in the game.
1. You need considerable levels to do damage with it.
2. Swoop and Backlash are just much better, which makes Blade Rain that much worse.
3. It's melee-range and channeling, and since you have low HP, attempting to use it means you'll take a big chunk of damage from any nearby heroes.
4. The AoE is TINY.
5. Everything Blade Rain can do, Chaos Rift does better.

IMO, change the ultimate to Blade Rain. Make it the same spell as Chaos Rift, but with the Blade Rain animation. Chaos Rift makes no sense thematically. Give her another normal spell that provides an alternative to Swoop.

[DarkNemesis]

NECROPOST

Blade Rain on Grim Hag. It's probably the worst AoE damage spell in the game.
1. You need considerable levels to do damage with it.
2. Swoop and Backlash are just much better, which makes Blade Rain that much worse.
3. It's melee-range and channeling, and since you have low HP, attempting to use it means you'll take a big chunk of damage from any nearby heroes.
4. The AoE is TINY.
5. Everything Blade Rain can do, Chaos Rift does better.

IMO, change the ultimate to Blade Rain. Make it the same spell as Chaos Rift, but with the Blade Rain animation. Chaos Rift makes no sense thematically. Give her another normal spell that provides an alternative to Swoop.

I agree for the most part, though Blades do have their purposes. Ultimate I don't worry about until backlash, swoop are maxed and Blind has atleast 3 point into. Maybe something have gives HP regen or a passive Agi boost with a form of troop support spell. Nothing too major though, as she is, Harp is overpowered.

[Leek]

Int-based Harpy with maxed blade-rain is actually a good build. You probably wouldn't have noticed this in a while since Swoop has been bugged and OP for the last 3-4 versions.

[DarkNemesis]

Which is why nobody goes that build anymore, at least to my knowledge. Why diverge an OP build skill!

[Kalrithus]

I like my blade rain + blind build, its great for survivability and pushing lanes

[jamn455]

Not to mention that int-build harpy has Chaos Rift that deals like 800-1k damage at level 4.

[Casval]

Not to mention that int-build harpy has Chaos Rift that deals like 800-1k damage at level 4.

That describes a lot of AoE nukes though = /
And, that's Chaos Rift, which can already wipe out waves at LVL1 on an AGI build.

Int-based Harpy with maxed blade-rain is actually a good build. You probably wouldn't have noticed this in a while since Swoop has been bugged and OP for the last 3-4 versions.

The problem with going INT on Grim is that the nature of Blade Rain means you'll have to buy HP as well. So, to become effective at AoE nuking, you need to pump your resources into two things, while if you want to be an effective Swooper, you're able to just mass AGI.

[jamn455]

Oh sorry, I mean 800-1k damage per second at level 4, and with it doing damage to towers if I remember correctly, it proves to be a big hit.

[Casval]

Oh sorry, I mean 800-1k damage per second at level 4, and with it doing damage to towers if I remember correctly, it proves to be a big hit.

Mmm, well, even though Chaos Rift is great, Blade Rain is still lacking!

[Reaper]

you tell em jamn

[DarkNemesis]

you tell em jamn
You tell em Jamn

[Casval]

Well, that argument is for an INT-build/Chaos Rift Grim, not for the usefulness of Blade Rain = /

[Kalrithus]

Int-based hag with blade rain and BLIND! Because blind is good times against physical based opponents and all but magic immune wave spawns. Makes you safe while you butcher them with blade rain.