Early Deaths are imba!

[Dekar]

This topic is a bit related to the "new ways to die" topic, but talks only about the very first death in early game and its effect on the dieing hero.

Imo a great amount of noobs failing at EotA is due to them running aronud happily, getting hit by unknown nukes here and there, run into towers and enemy waves and finally die before they reach level 5.

While they somewhat deserve that death, it puts them into a very, very disadvantaged situation.

They respawn at their base and walk back to the field, wasting even more time and miss out more exp.
They do not even know 3 level 1 skills yet, and their oponnent will propably be 5 levels highers and have a level 2 skill by the time they arrive back on the lane. Where they die again or a driven off the lane due to the sheer hero level disadvantage, resulting in a steadily growing level disadvantage until late-mid game, where a few levels difference are common and the skill level jump from 5 to 6 does not double the damage the skill deals.

Thats what I observed at least, but I think its quite plausible especially as you gain skillpoints fastest on lower levels.

So what can be done to help these poor people?
My first, only and quite rough ideas is a free instant full hp&mana respawn at the nearest outpost with no killing reward given, for the first death under lvl 10-15 if no code was loaded and the player is no clanmember ( would require a namelist though ).

[Tehw00tz]

Honestly, it's the fact they die and not the fact they're under-leveled. If they die they just become frustrated and leave the game.

[Ion]

Yeah but Dek that's only cause ezmodeheroes.

[Warskull]

There is a chunk of players who will always rage quit the game after dying. That's just part of the war3/dota culture. You can't do much about that. It isn't the penalty, it is just the fact that they died and they should never die.

However, I am very for death penalty being reworked to be based more on level (or how long the game has been going on) and the first early game death being a freebie.

Another idea, perhaps crystals could be reworked. Sub-10 heroes give reduced crystals to reduce the impact of a newbie dying a few times as they get the hang of things.

The fact that the death penalty can go past 30 seconds is pretty bad. Most noobs will rage quit from a long respawn. Hell, the noobs in TF2 bitch about 15 second respawn times.

The big thing that needs to change is death based on how many times you died. Sometimes you can't do much to avoid dying, the other team just pulled a great play off and got you. If you slipped up while getting used to the game a few times early on that death puts you down for a while. If it is your first time dying it is a few seconds. I would rather see a mid-game death and a late game death be the same for everyone, regardless of previous deaths.

[DarkNemesis]

As far as DotA goes, most of the early leaving do so to avoid the rampant attacks they receive just for dying even once, not speaking for myself really, though I have encountered a few douche bags in the game. But, I'm not the best DotA player. That games problem is its self-oriented style. Not near enough teamwork and far too much selfishness floating around. Still, it has its cool concepts, and some of the heroes are really awesome and unique.

[Warskull]

As far as DotA goes, most of the early leaving do so to avoid the rampant attacks they receive just for dying even once, not speaking for myself really, though I have encountered a few douche bags in the game. But, I'm not the best DotA player. That games problem is its self-oriented style. Not near enough teamwork and far too much selfishness floating around. Still, it has its cool concepts, and some of the heroes are really awesome and unique.

So in summary, I think we all agree DotA is a breeding ground for retards.

[DarkNemesis]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced dying should be left alone. If someone is repeatedly running into mobs and getting gang raped, why the hell would you want them on your team anyway?

Again, we seem to leaning towards a system the punishes good play and rewards bad. If a person cannot figure out that running around a map alone isn't a good idea, they really shouldn't be playing EotA.

DotA can have them.

[Ion]

I'm going to stir the pot here, out of experience most EotA rage-quitters or haters quit after more then one death (anywhere between 2-3).

In DotA, if Plight messes up Rot at Level 4 he will quit, occasionally causing his whole team to quit. Does it take EotA players that long to learn?

o=

[Dekar]

So, to prevent quitting because of early first death, should we give new players a temporary Ankh that instantly revives them with 1k hp which disappears when hold by a hero of level 10-15+?

[Mills]

This almost makes me wonder if any of you guys have ever played DotA, at least more than once.

[Dekar]

I only play PRO DOTA 1on1, first 3 kill streak wins!

[Tehw00tz]

In DotA, if Plight messes up Rot at Level 4

This almost makes me wonder if any of you guys have ever played DotA, at least more than once.

[Ion]

I played several DotAs yesterday.

There's no real difference in the quality of some public players between DotA and EotA, only that the quantity playing DotA are much higher (it's way more popular) and that people tend to know a lot more about DotA before they play it then EotA.

That said, ragging on DotA players is kinda dumb since lots of the pubs we get playing EotA play DotA. Occasionally we get one who's all like 'oh DotA sucks I want something new' so they come play EotA, but most of the time they can go between both.

I'm not really sure what to do about new players, since what you end up having is people like Tox who have multiple accounts going on a new one and lol'ing you all with an Ankh (hehe) or something like that, you know? The best way to make death less killer for new people is to make it so the crystal and money earned from death are based on things like unit kills, tower kills, hero kills and time between the latter in-game, time spent before last dying etc. (interestingly DotA has a system somewhat like this with hero PKs '-.-). I also think it would make the game more reasonable in terms of time if respawn was skewed with time spent in game (again...DotA has a system like this).

**EDIT: Yak could put this in a mode or something, or put the old system in a mode for other players who don't wanna make the switch outright if there's real problems with things.