Yo.

[Ion]

The vast majority of people who need affordable healthcare work, if not at 2 or 3 jobs because making ends meet is not always easy. There's also a very fine difference between government regulation being bad inherently and the some aspects of government regulation in Canada being misguided. But since you're fucking foreign and stupid there's no point trying to explain.

Yes, it is very necessary, please go back to /b/. I can provide a link if you need it.

[Mills]

Perhaps, you're a faggot.

[Kalrithus]

What part of Canada do you live in Ion? Because I have numerous friends up there, from the Calgary region to Nova Scotia and they all hate your healthcare =(

[Casval]

Agreed, Ion.

Also, I forgot to mention--the state of US health care is in enough disarray that medical tourism is becoming a growing trend. Not only is care more easily obtained in many foreign countries, but it's cheaper too, and at similar or higher levels of quality.

Why the hell should I have to pay for lazy-ass Joe's healthcare when he refuses to work for a decent living? Caring about people doesn't mean forcing them to hand over their own money.

"No man is an island"
I'm sure you've heard that one before. The answer is quite simple, really, and the answer to this is identical to the answer behind all social problems, including welfare, the economy, and so on.
It's because if you don't take care of society, society will crumble. Crime rates go up as the economy goes down. People have killed in order to obtain money for health care.

In other words, if you're not going to take care of the problem, then the problem will take care of you!

The UN always has been, and very likely will be for the foreseeable future an utter and absolute joke when it comes to ANY policies it sets up. First they lack the authority to see any of them through, second they lack the will to see any of their "noble causes" through to the end. See the various massacres/genocides that happen around the world that the UN claimed after WW2 would not happen again. Those who put their faith in corrupt organizations like the UN and setting themselves up to be disappointed. On the subject of Health Care in the United States, hospitals are required under law to treat someone in an emergency whether or not they can pay. Sure some bum on the streets who can't work or won't work won't generally have their meds paid for, or be given a great deal of preventative care. Know why? Because it would not be feasible, when it comes to economics or frankly common sense. If you really want to create a generational debt much greater than what we have now, and cause us to pay much higher taxes then yea National Healthcare would be a fabulous idea! Except that the majority of Doctors/Nurses/Medical Professionals would go elsewhere in search of a place where they can make a lucrative living. If you don't understand what this means I'll spell it out, A massive decrease in medical treatment quality, the formation of long wait times even for emergency procedures, the furtherance of class warfare as the rich will be seen as getting preferential treatment by going first in said wait list. Frankly the collapse of the United States as it has been known for the past several decades, and the continual descent towards Socialism and the loss of our Superpower status as evidenced by the numerous European countries that have already fallen.

/endrant

I, for one, wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if it meant I didn't have to pay health insurance as well. You're also assuming that the base infrastructure of medical education would not change, because it will in response to a change in the overall system. And I don't know where they would go. Really, at this point, there is no second place. The US is more or less the only modern country left in the world that's holding out. Besides, Obama hasn't said ANYTHING about switching to a socialist system. He's moving closer to the Canadian system.

[DarkNemesis]

The vast majority of people who need affordable healthcare work, if not at 2 or 3 jobs because making ends meet is not always easy. There's also a very fine difference between government regulation being bad inherently and the some aspects of government regulation in Canada being misguided. But since you're fucking foreign and stupid there's no point trying to explain.

Yes, it is very necessary, please go back to /b/. I can provide a link if you need it.

bad inherently

See, that's the difference between you and me, isn't it Ion? You believe that life is naturally cruel to certain people, and that no matter how hard they try or work they'll never get ahead. I, however, believe every person (except maybe those with disabilities) have the potential to rise up and achieve whatever they wont to without anyone saying otherwise, because its simply not true.

/End of comment

[DarnYak]

What article was it Yak.

Don't know anymore, was weeks or months back and google isn't pulling it up. It's possible I misunderstood (or they misreported). Even if not true, my overall point remains unchanged.

Money does not make you a better person, it makes you a richer person. Everyone should help pay for medicare because you care about your fellow citizen. I'm sure Yak will argue against that, but unlike you Dark he'll probably attempt at something intelligent.

The #1 reason is it will bankrupt this country. Alternately, it'll destroy quality. More likely both. The medical lobby is already absurd as it is, and there's a reason they're all in favor of Obama's universal health insurance plan.

If you can show a plan where its actally affordable and won't send quality to hell, the arguement becomes a bit more persuasive. But then it still relies on trusting the government not to mismanage it.

I'll also throw in that the problems in our health care system are pervasive in almost every aspect. The insurance companies, doctors, pharmasuiticals(spelling?), medical schools, etc. all have their own stake where they're scamming the system out of money. All of them need to be addressed, not just make it manditory that we all pay in.

DarnYak

[Casval]

The vast majority of people who need affordable healthcare work, if not at 2 or 3 jobs because making ends meet is not always easy. There's also a very fine difference between government regulation being bad inherently and the some aspects of government regulation in Canada being misguided. But since you're fucking foreign and stupid there's no point trying to explain.

Yes, it is very necessary, please go back to /b/. I can provide a link if you need it.

bad inherently

See, that's the difference between you and me, isn't it Ion? You believe that life is naturally cruel to certain people, and that no matter how hard they try or work they'll never get ahead. I, however, believe every person (except maybe those with disabilities) have the potential to rise up and achieve whatever they wont to without anyone saying otherwise, because its simply not true.

/End of comment

You must love Ayn Rand =P

[Kalrithus]

Are you daft, what do you think Canada is? Majority of their policies iirc are socialistic in nature. Also Obama has made it clear numerous times that he supports such Socialist views. If you want to pay higher taxes that's fine and dandy, go write a check to the government come tax time with a little note (For Healthcare) I'm sure they would love to take it. As to the whole medical disarray crap, do you understand that because of the increase in regulations imposed by the government is why this has happened? And often those that leave the US for medical reason DO NOT go to a country that has your beloved national healthcare. Israel if iirc has one of the top medical facilities in the world and I severely doubt its socialized.

[DarkNemesis]

And why not? Some of her ideals were right on target imo.

I actually haven't read any of her books, but I'm planning to.

[Ion]

Having numerous friends doesn't somehow make them right.

Also, note that Calgary = Texas and the capital of Canadian conservatism (and they'd put you Americans to shame by how ridiculous they can get) and Nova Scotia is very poor, sparsely populated and has a comparable number of PCs to Calgary.

We have problems with the way our healthcare works but when you look at other countries (like south of the border) people can be pretty happy. What's pissing is there's absolutely no way to use private services in any form, which lots of Canadians agree is stupid.

See, that's the difference between you and me, isn't it Ion? You believe that life is naturally cruel to certain people, and that no matter how hard they try or work they'll never get ahead.

http://img.4chan.org/b/imgboard.html Go there. I did not say life is naturally cruel to anyone; whether or not that is true is besides the point, the fact is you must've really failed the English part of your SAT really fucking hard.

I, however, believe every person (except maybe those with disabilities) have the potential to rise up and achieve whatever they wont to without anyone saying otherwise, because its simply not true.

This doesn't fucking make any sense. From what I gather people with disabilites don't have the potential to rise up and achieve whatever they want. Maybe put them down then? Eugenics plz? Since they can't get healthcare cause they can't work for it hu cares.

[Casval]

Are you daft, what do you think Canada is? Majority of their policies iirc are socialistic in nature. Also Obama has made it clear numerous times that he supports such Socialist views. If you want to pay higher taxes that's fine and dandy, go write a check to the government come tax time with a little note (For Healthcare) I'm sure they would love to take it. As to the whole medical disarray crap, do you understand that because of the increase in regulations imposed by the government is why this has happened? And often those that leave the US for medical reason DO NOT go to a country that has your beloved national healthcare. Israel if iirc has one of the top medical facilities in the world and I severely doubt its socialized.

It is.

[Kalrithus]

Well seeing as Canada seems to be composed of a few mini countries I wanted to touch base with you on that Ion =P

[Kalrithus]

Proof plzkthx

[DarnYak]

Oh yea, another thing about national health care. It shouldn't be national, we have states for a reason. If Texas doesn't want to mandate health care coverage, you're welcome to move in or out of the state based on that. If California wants to manage it different then Oregon, that's a great thing because we can see which works better. The 50 individual states thing is an amazing device to allow us to have different approaches and build off what each other does right/wrong, and its a tragedy that the trend has been to mandate it from the federal government instead of leaving it to the 10th amendment.

DarnYak

[Casval]

Proof plzkthx

Google it yo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

Also, Singapore and Thailand, two of the most popular medical tourism destinations, also have universal health care. Singapore in particular is not only more monetarily efficient, but has wayyyyyyyy higher quality care than the US.

[Ion]

If you actually go to each of these provinces there's SO many different views (surprise that's mankind). Alberta has one of Canada's best medicare systems cause they're a really rich province and they really need some privatization to an extent, but free medicare is still a good idea. We just need some decent reforms so our healthcare system is less restrictive.

Nova Scotia is having an election atm and the 'socialists' (NDP) are winning apparently over the PCs (Progressive Conservatives) XD

**EDIT: Yak that is how Canada's healthcare system works, no province has just opted out yet (why when they get federal money to support it?)

[Kalrithus]

Thanks for the links <--- I r lazy. While reading through the first one I found this!
A few of the hospitals in Israel are fully private though most are public, operated by the ministry of health, while several are run by Clalit.
Whatcha wanna bet that those that farm out their healthcare go to one of the private ones, and that the quality in those is superior ^-^

[DarkNemesis]

Oh yea, another thing about national health care. It shouldn't be national, we have states for a reason. If Texas doesn't want to mandate health care coverage, you're welcome to move in or out of the state based on that. If California wants to manage it different then Oregon, that's a great thing because we can see which works better. The 50 individual states thing is an amazing device to allow us to have different approaches and build off what each other does right/wrong, and its a tragedy that the trend has been to mandate it from the federal government instead of leaving it to the 10th amendment.

DarnYak

Here here

[DarnYak]

Yak that is how Canada's healthcare system works, no province has just opted out yet (why when they get federal money to support it?)

Federal money is how they make it universal in the US usually. I could be wrong but usualy the federal government takes it whether you opt in or not, so you're basicly just opting in to get your goddamned money back. So opt'ing out means your paying for everyone elses and then have to pay seperately for your own on top of it.

DarnYak

[DarkNemesis]

So opt'ing out means your paying for everyone elses and then have to pay seperately for your own on top of it.

No no, this is correct to my knowledge, sadly though.

[Perhaps]

Yes, it is very necessary, please go back to /b/. I can provide a link if you need it.

HOW ABOUT /h/?!

[Tehw00tz]

Perhaps, you're a faggot.

This.

[DarkNemesis]

Perhaps, you're a faggot.

This.

Not to sound like a mod, but Jamn got temp banned for resurrecting this. I wouldn't push it, just my 2cents.

[Ion]

DarkNemesis is a faggot. And a parasite to society.

Go back where you came from! /b/!

[Discombobulator]

You guys have spent the last 3 pages of threads proving that Serbia is the best country.

And yes, we have national health care.