Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

An Aeon of Strife map for Warcraft 3
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PostPosted: August 7th, 2010, 12:57 am 
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So I want to "remake" Exodus to learn the SC2 editor. Don't get me wrong, this won't be a straight port - but it will bare significant similarities.

A lot of it is still uncertain, but I wanted to get some input on the role the players are in. I'm considering two options for the primary defenders: Terran and Zerg. Terran is obviously the most common race in defense maps, they're well suited to defense missions, they have reasonable hero possibilities, etc. On the other hand, I don't recall ever seeing Zerg defense maps, but I feel the whole "defend the hive" type situation would suit it well. Further, if I go with zerg the heroes will be less distinct and more focused on multiple ways of evolving (sort of like those maps where you pick whatever hero skills you want but obviously considerably more structured/limited).

Not going to put a poll in because I want more precise feedback of what people think would be cooler. And please, nobody suggest protoss defense, I won't go there - or, at best, it'll be terran/protoss defense.

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PostPosted: August 7th, 2010, 3:56 am 
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Playing as the Zerg would be interesting on account of creep and the possibilities of it acting as the drawn line of battle.
Certain factors could come in to play that can expand or deplete the spread of creep, allowing for possible superior defensive positions or letting the enemy build a forward outpost right on your doorstep courtesy of secondary objectives and the whole "we can build here, you can't" thing.

And depending on how accessible the map editor is, you might even be able to modify the speed bonus Zerg get for being on creep or even change it to bonus attackspeed/range/debuffing enemies/etc.


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PostPosted: August 7th, 2010, 4:03 am 
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Zerg!

Because of the already mentioned creep and evolution systems.

Oh, I didnt like building weak units, so the hero upgrade altar has to return!

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PostPosted: August 7th, 2010, 7:10 am 
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I have to vote Zerg because I love evolving hero paths. Preferably there are a lot of different paths so if you had 12 or so players they'd end up with different outcomes. Creep is pretty cool in SC2 so that'd be neat as well.

However just to be different Terran has a lot of things going for it as well. I believe they have a LOT more models (which could also be good for attackers). And zerg attacking Terrans could have all kinds of fancy gimmicks like creep pushing, nydus worms, and all that jazz.

Overall I still favor Zerg however.

Why aren't you interested in a Protoss Defense?

All those things being said, how would you work out the item UI? I've seen it in a couple maps so far (a dota-clone and a 3-person defense map) and it's pretty lame. It's a little menu that you can click to open and close, but iirc it's close to some other important buttons so it gets annoying.

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PostPosted: August 7th, 2010, 7:32 am 
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Adding my voice for zerg, mostly because we've already done terran and protoss siege style maps in the campaign and zerg has the potential to be fairly unique and interesting. Plus zerg has some awesome models like the brutalisk and leviathan!


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PostPosted: August 7th, 2010, 11:39 am 
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why no love for the protoss?

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PostPosted: August 7th, 2010, 12:19 pm 
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All those things being said, how would you work out the item UI?

I'll need to experiment to find a setup that works well. I don't know if you can alter or replace the default ui to make room for item boxes.

DarnYak


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PostPosted: August 7th, 2010, 3:42 pm 
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well if you ever need anyone to test, I'd be happy to!


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PostPosted: August 7th, 2010, 3:51 pm 
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I would prefer to see zerg too, just because like you said, everyone does terran defense and tos td's, would be nice to see a zerg defense map.

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PostPosted: August 7th, 2010, 5:49 pm 
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Sparda!!!! We should play sometime :twisted:


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PostPosted: August 9th, 2010, 9:39 pm 
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#Start PMing me your account handles, mines waffleion@gmail or search up Midas and I'll show up.

I agree mostly with what everyone's said here. Zerg D's, other maybe than if someone's made a Sunken port (I haven't seen one) are very rare.

A defend-the-hive map, with creep pushing and Nydus-macro would be very cool, but I don't see why the heros have to exclusively be Zerg. You could add in a Terran hero and Protoss hero on the Zerg's side fighting against whoever it is they're fighting against. Have the Terrans and Protoss drop in a few supports, just like the original Exodus where you had the other races dropping in a few specialized units here and there (pushing with a giant Odin/Thor with Nydus Canals popping up everywhere would be sick). You could do the Terran heroes and Protoss heroes different from the Zerg-evolving unit as well. Terran heroes could start off as exclusively bio and underequipped but as they progress throughout the map, and as they kill more of the opposing Terran/Protoss forces they could salvage weapons, armor, repair vehicles scattered across the map etc. The Protoss heroes would be the most specialized, basically being like heroes from EotA/Original Exodus, earning skill points and upgrading their abilities.

Or after you make the first Exodus a zerg-themed one, just add in options at the beginning for a race-vote in some later version and you could choose to play defense as Terran or Toss, whateevs.

*As a third idea, a Terran-Zerg base-d vs. 'Toss/Terran would be pretty fun. Have Terran control-towers everywhere and if they die the zerg go nuts and unally you in that area xD. But no it's too complicated and kinda silly. Or have the Terran/'Toss heroes as infested/mind-controlled.

Just an idea, adds a ton more work but maybe in the long run it'd be cool. Also I say it 'cuz in the Original Exodus you could basically play all the races but UD :D it'd be fun to actually play all the races in a defense map, but evolving zerg probably covers what you'd want anyway. Playing a Zerg map but driving around in a Tank blastin shizz seems fun to me, but I'd be perfectly content with a Zerg defense :lol:.

By the way, I played Bumper Cars today. that game is sickkk!!!

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PostPosted: August 9th, 2010, 10:51 pm 
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Quote:
but I don't see why the heros have to exclusively be Zerg

Because I dont' have a context in which that makes sense (at this point). Exodus made sense because it was a "join together or we're all fucked" context - here, I don't know why they're going to be attacking/defending, but its unlikely the zerg will be open to allies.

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Or after you make the first Exodus a zerg-themed one, just add in options at the beginning for a race-vote in some later version and you could choose to play defense as Terran or Toss

Not happening. My goal in this map is to make something in a relatively short time with a preset set of objectives, not the type of map to constantly evolve/expand over years. That's reserved for more competative maps.

DarnYak


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PostPosted: August 10th, 2010, 3:19 am 
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DarnYak wrote:
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but I don't see why the heros have to exclusively be Zerg

Because I dont' have a context in which that makes sense (at this point). Exodus made sense because it was a "join together or we're all fucked" context - here, I don't know why they're going to be attacking/defending, but its unlikely the zerg will be open to allies.


I think story is what you least have to worry about, it's so easy to make stuff up and even in Blizzard's universe it's not that implausible (just look at how the campaign ended). But it depends on if you really think it adds much and would be cool. You're trying to make a quick map so probably just best to forget it :lol: and stick with either Zerg or Terran (and I vote Zerg).

If you liked the idea, you can make it make sense in a lot of ways. Have the Terran using a mind-control plot beacon on the Zerg throughout the whole thing. You have a Zerg base on the peripheral, the heroes are Terran-evolved zerg but all the units are regulars kept in line by the beacon. If the computer blows up a a beacon all Zerg in the area go beserk/hostile. Or write up some gay side-story about the Zerg being terran bio-weapons in New Exodus/EotA Universe who cares. And the Protoss/other Terrans have come to burn it all down, so they pull out the experiments without having the time to really check them out. The terran faction wants to live, and the zerg hive-mind they made is either under their control or willing to work with them as long as it takes to escape or defend or whatever.

Come on, who reads these things anyway we always skipped the EotA intro :wink:. But, you wanna make a quick map and it's probably not a great idea to throw into the mix.

As a side-note, if you do the Zerg, it would be cool to have a mini-quest (like the sewers/gruntapult in original Exodus) of pushing to a few barrackses to get some zerg marines.

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Or after you make the first Exodus a zerg-themed one, just add in options at the beginning for a race-vote in some later version and you could choose to play defense as Terran or Toss
Not happening. My goal in this map is to make something in a relatively short time with a preset set of objectives, not the type of map to constantly evolve/expand over years. That's reserved for more competative maps.

DarnYak


Well good, because EotA Maze still isn't complete and I think your priority should be an SC2 one anyway :!:

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PostPosted: August 10th, 2010, 9:48 am 
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Well good, because EotA Maze still isn't complete and I think your priority should be an SC2 one anyway

If I ever make an sc2 maze, I probably will make it just like the completed parts of eota maze. Except with more Hidden Fun Stuff.

DarnYak


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PostPosted: August 10th, 2010, 3:43 pm 
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The closest we have zerg working with terrans is through infestation =). That and those odd missions where you had zerg mercenaries working with terrans. Was rather strange


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PostPosted: August 10th, 2010, 3:58 pm 
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DarnYak wrote:
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If I ever make an sc2 maze, I probably will make it just like the completed parts of eota maze. Except with more Hidden Fun Stuff.


That's great. The first one you made just abruptly ends.

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PostPosted: August 10th, 2010, 4:33 pm 
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Well it is Just Another Warcraft III Map.

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PostPosted: August 10th, 2010, 5:01 pm 
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it was moer than that in my heart and everyone who played it </3

also i finally got around to making my dp appropriate. long live glorious soviet canuckistan

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PostPosted: August 16th, 2010, 4:14 am 
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So just an update after a night of being unable to sleep (and first day of class in 3 hours..yay..)

It will be zerg hive defense. I have a pretty general concept of what I want the world to be about and the conflicts etc., so I'm happy to have a context from which to start building stuff. Bad news is it'll be another apocalyptic-like event, so you better hide your wife, hide your kids, and hide your husbands too because they're killing everyone out here. I'm not sure how much I should reveal before releasing the map ;P And I have a name too, which I mention only because I often get hung up on naming shit for days.

The map will be very exodus like, with (I hope) expanding on it in a few ways. Still trying to work out if and how to do items, as these are freaking zerg we're talking about.

I hope to start work within the next few days, after I finish off the brutal campaign/achievements (2 missions left).

DarnYak


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2010, 11:29 am 
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DarnYak wrote:
so you better hide your wife, hide your kids, and hide your husbands too because they're killing everyone out here.


Nice.


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2010, 2:32 pm 
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An idea for some of the items, genetic grafts. By-product of the super-evolutionary zerg virus these could be mutations that didn't find a home in the master plan.


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PostPosted: August 17th, 2010, 2:30 am 
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Don't make me buy starcraft... make maps on WC4!

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PostPosted: August 17th, 2010, 4:57 am 
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Upload error: VALIDATION_WORKING_SET_INSTANCE_FAIL

\o/

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<EotA@Azeroth> YAKS GO MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Dekar: the ultimate ocean themed hero should buff and depend on spawn waves!
DarnYak: why is that
Dekar: WAVES
Dekar: :D
DarnYak: i was afraid that was the answer


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PostPosted: August 17th, 2010, 6:59 am 
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It would be fun if you could absorb a bit of the native wildlife into the Swarm and have them reproduce the viruses- either as items or troops :D. If you find any cool models that might also function as wildlife prior to their assimulation that is.

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PostPosted: August 17th, 2010, 9:50 am 
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There are several animal models.

Edit: Looks like map publishing can break if you try funny stuff like giving a player a certain color or when creating your own game variant.

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<EotA@Azeroth> YAKS GO MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Dekar: the ultimate ocean themed hero should buff and depend on spawn waves!
DarnYak: why is that
Dekar: WAVES
Dekar: :D
DarnYak: i was afraid that was the answer


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