Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

For discussions about discussions in the Conclave by those without posting permission

Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby Cokemonkey11 » July 13th, 2009, 1:17 pm

Feel free to lock ofc if this isn't allowed, I read a thread on the conclave and I have some comments:

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1390

Instead of focusing on what's bad about these maps, we should focus on how to make the bads less confusing or easier to understand.

Gloomreap Mire:

Criss Crossing Lanes: Simply make less of them, and somehow terrain them independantly (although this could be difficult considering it's supposed to look like a swamp), this way players know when they've entered different lanes.

No Energy: Change the way crystals spawn and are used. Currently at the end of very long games the miners just end up sitting in the base because there is no gloom left. Make the gloom spawn during the game in random lanes, and force players to fight there for gloom. Make it so that after each successive round of gloom creation, a system gives energy to the team that mined more (had stronger pushes)

Kedge's Landing: This is without a doubt my favorite map in eota.

Crashes: Not much I can say here, we need to isolate the crashes and fix them.

Left Lane Importance: We talked for awhile about the strength of the left towers and the fact they sometimes attack the left lane. We talked about the fact that they already do loads of damage, but what about adding more of them, and triggering in the ordered attack on the right lane? make them 'attack once' then pause them.

Candleburg:

The Chaos: There's not much we can do about this, Candleburg has much fewer creeps and a much smaller facet for gameplay. Flying heroes are basically made out of the question useless, and Hero Killers just can't do their job as well. Tanks and Support heroes almost always have the upper hand here. To reduce the chaos, make the region slightly wider (I know it's massive already, but JNGP can make 512x512 maps) and make 2 very small spawns on either side of the main one. Something like dota status with a few knights and a priest (or a few bears and a troll, etc) This could hopefully widen the playing field a little, without making unnecessary obstacles in a region that's built to be chaotic.

The Mana System: Base sieges and lumber control are only useful if you use your creeps in exactly the right amounts at exactly the right time. People like to sit in their base microing it to 10 mana waiting for their opponent to spawn a mass just so they can attempt to counter it with their own mass. This deadlocks in itself. There's not much you can do to fix this problem unfortunately, but i'd reccomend changing the mana max to 6, and making it spawn the selected units for a few rounds from the base instead of just instantly going to fight.

Prevented attacks and rebuilds: Remove workers. I think. This will stop people from hording gold and just building tower after tower.

Lumbermills: Not saying change them, but at least add some objective secondarily. Making the objective "push towards their base" isn't exactly eota spirit.

Just my $000,000.02, but I hope it's got some valid points to be discussed.

Thanks,
Image
I miss EotA :(
User avatar
Cokemonkey11
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 306
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 12:04 am

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby Discombobulator » July 13th, 2009, 1:33 pm

No, I don't think you have any valid points.
I'm this forum's MVP.
User avatar
Discombobulator
Retired
Retired
 
Posts: 709
Joined: September 19th, 2006, 4:16 pm

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby BustroQuick » July 13th, 2009, 1:51 pm

Moved to Conclave Common Hall. You're free to post about anything that happens within the Conclave here.
User avatar
BustroQuick
#4
 
Posts: 200
Joined: August 7th, 2006, 11:37 pm

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby Cokemonkey11 » July 13th, 2009, 2:29 pm

BustroQuick wrote:Moved to Conclave Common Hall. You're free to post about anything that happens within the Conclave here.


Got it, thank you
Image
I miss EotA :(
User avatar
Cokemonkey11
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 306
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 12:04 am

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby Luftwaffles » July 13th, 2009, 2:47 pm

I don't see much here to post to, simply because you've mixed suggestions, opinions and ideas on the lane in a way that makes it hard to understand what you're really trying to do.
- Luftwaffles
User avatar
Luftwaffles
Communist
 
Posts: 398
Joined: May 22nd, 2009, 11:48 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby Dark_Nemesis » July 13th, 2009, 3:01 pm

I have an idea for Candle.

What if Yak redid the lane and had it work like a switch back, but still retain the city feel? Maybe make the town larger too? Or better yet, you could have the fight slowly progress to certain areas of the town: the downtown, busy area, the more suburb area, the farming communities area, maybe even out of town a ways? Basically, the battle would go through 'areas'.

Hmm, maybe add one or even two more lanes, but still keep it small. That way there is more diversity, yet still the in-your-face feel with the huge hero duels n' all.

My 2 cents.
Image

America!
User avatar
Dark_Nemesis
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 480
Joined: July 13th, 2009, 11:36 am
Location: Washington

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby Luftwaffles » July 13th, 2009, 3:13 pm

I don't think it makes sense for Candle to have more then one lane atm, even if we ignore the spatial argument..o_o. Also, despite demanding that Yak adhere to the Warcraft standard of lore, you completely fail to realize that there would be no suburbs in a town. Suburbs would be a very, very rare thing in EotA given it is presumably set before any sort of industrial revolution.

[Reborn] facepalm wasn't necessary ;)
- Luftwaffles
User avatar
Luftwaffles
Communist
 
Posts: 398
Joined: May 22nd, 2009, 11:48 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby Cokemonkey11 » July 13th, 2009, 4:46 pm

Luftwaffles wrote:
[Reborn] facepalm wasn't necessary


I protest. When I read both their posts, my response was to facepalm; in real life. The facepalm accurately describes how I feel about this thread and to censor it (again) is not only unnecessary, but imperialist and an impediment to my free speech.


You facepalmed to my post? Care to explain why? I tried to think out and explain my ideas in an organized and easy to understand fashion...
Image
I miss EotA :(
User avatar
Cokemonkey11
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 306
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 12:04 am

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby DarnYak » July 13th, 2009, 4:57 pm

Deleted posts from here. Keep it on topic please. Ion if you have issues with your posts being editted take it up in PMs

DarnYak
User avatar
DarnYak
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2364
Joined: August 12th, 2006, 2:54 pm

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby Luftwaffles » July 13th, 2009, 6:19 pm

It was a sarcastic plea. I realize my facepalm images are simply too awesome for this forum.

You facepalmed to my post? Care to explain why? I tried to think out and explain my ideas in an organized and easy to understand fashion...


I facepalmed to Dark. I can understand your ideas and I'm sure everyone else could. You addressed one or two good points and said what you needed to say
- Luftwaffles
User avatar
Luftwaffles
Communist
 
Posts: 398
Joined: May 22nd, 2009, 11:48 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby CryptLord1234 » July 13th, 2009, 9:47 pm

Personally, I found that Casval's idea for Candleburg sounded really fun. For those of you who don't remember/can't find it:

Casval wrote:1. Nerf all the towers on that map and make them have 1/4th or so HP.
2. On the other hand, your team AI will constantly be building towers and expanding outwards towards the other base.
3. Rework the barracks. Don't make them spawn waves, but make them like the Arcane Generators.
4. Add some more Lumber Mill sorta things. As your team caps them, you spawn additional units/unit types.


I think that, with a slightly longer/bigger map, would make Candleburg a lot more fun than it is now.
"L4D2 promises to set a new benchmark for co-op games. . ." Like L4D promised to hand us new maps, survivors, and zombies? We've seen how that works.
CryptLord1234
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 365
Joined: August 19th, 2006, 8:53 pm

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby Cokemonkey11 » July 13th, 2009, 9:56 pm

That does sound cool, but would the spawned units just make the chaos even greater when the fight meets in the middle?

Also, I would be worried about the player who gets to the fight first pushing 5/6 of the lane and then the spawning units are too great for low level heroes to handle.

Perhaps make that system but have it locked until someone reaches level 10, or something.
Image
I miss EotA :(
User avatar
Cokemonkey11
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 306
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 12:04 am

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby CryptLord1234 » July 13th, 2009, 10:03 pm

IIRC, he was talking not about the spawning waves, but about the barracks. For instance, you would set it to spawn X unit, and it would add that unit to a wave, rather than 1 mana = 1 unit of any type.

If you're referring to the Lumber Mill idea, I can see that it would be problematic, but at the same time, I think that structuring them properly (IE, units attack toward the center of the base, miss the path of the main force of mobs), it would be a trickle of units, but an annoying one, because your towers can't be repaired and are constantly taking damage.

I could see a time restraint on it as well, like a 10min restriction on adding to spawn waves or capturing Lumber Mills.
"L4D2 promises to set a new benchmark for co-op games. . ." Like L4D promised to hand us new maps, survivors, and zombies? We've seen how that works.
CryptLord1234
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 365
Joined: August 19th, 2006, 8:53 pm

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby Cokemonkey11 » July 13th, 2009, 10:11 pm

I would be down to test that trickle thing that goes straight to the towers.
Image
I miss EotA :(
User avatar
Cokemonkey11
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 306
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 12:04 am

Re: Not sure if this is allowed, but I'm gonna go for it.

Postby Thermie » September 18th, 2009, 8:02 pm

I am a big fan of the expanding base idea. Little automated workers that went out and built walls and miniature towers to help defend the ground id worked so hard to gain would be nice.

The only indicator ive found in most candleburg games as to who is winning is how close to the enemy base the fights tend to take place. If my team is winning we tend to hang out just outside their towers range and fight there (hiding there more like it), if its tied we are either centered or just off center or pushing back and forth, and if we are losing we are pushed back to our towers and trying to draw them close enough to gain the advantage.

Adding workers that would come out and build up small/medium size defenses behind you as you push forward would at least at some incentive to hold your ground as far out from your base as possible. and the benefits of holding that ground would be additional bases being built up behind you and enough addidional offenses to end the typical candleburg deadlock.
Thermie
Visitor
Visitor
 
Posts: 27
Joined: June 1st, 2008, 3:13 pm


Return to Conclave Common Hall

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron