Mod Suggestions

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Luftwaffles
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Mod Suggestions

#1 Post by Luftwaffles »

Feel free to come in here and post directions to flame wars, criticize mods for missing something or putting up suggestions to the mods on how to improve the site. I think it's acceptable in a thread like this for posts to be a bit more angry so there's mods should try and leave posts a bit more in-tact, but there's no need to assault anyone on here so keep it reasonably clean.

I locked the other topic because it wasn't very good foresight on my part to address moderation problems by including a poll to ban DarkNemesis and ignoring some of the problems caused by other posters (myself prominently included).
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#2 Post by Storamin »

Why can't you all just flame each and be happy?

Why do you have to act like small children and complain to the moderators about it? Resolve your own issues amongst each other and go back to flaming each in the funny EotA forum way that y'all do?
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#3 Post by Cokemonkey11 »

Because sometimes an argument, like many real world arguments, has valid points on either side that each clings too. It's called being stubborn and it's the reason we have democrats and republicans, straights and gays, liberals and conservatives, etc. There are some things arguments can't win.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#4 Post by Dark_Nemesis »

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell Storamin meant exactly.

If he means me /banning Dark_Nemesis, pretty sure that issue dropped. From what I could tell from Ion, anyway. So really what is left?

If he means the mods not doing their job (which they clearly aren't btw) then Ion's post is more than appropriate, and Storamin's is out of place.

Too, how is taking a serious and perfectly valid point to the mods classify as acting like children? Even remotely so? His suggestions are the most childish imo: flaming the hell out of anyone we don't like or agree with. No...instead, this is arguably the most mature thread I have seen come out of this community.

The only immature thing about it is the fact the Storamin now derailed the original topic, but hopefully it will stay in tact....hopefully.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#5 Post by Dekar »

I dont like being moderated by COMMUNISTS! :x
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#6 Post by Storamin »

Let me paraphrase:

Regulate your own emotions so that you can behave rationally and civilly without the need for a moderator to step in and fix the problem for you.
:twisted:
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#7 Post by DiscombobuIator »

Storamin wrote:Let me paraphrase:

Regulate your own emotions so that you can behave rationally and civilly without the need for a moderator to step in and fix the problem for you.
:twisted:
And I tell you to mind your own business.

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Re: Mod Suggestions

#8 Post by Dark_Nemesis »

And I tell you to mind your own business.
:shock:
Let me paraphrase:

Regulate your own emotions so that you can behave rationally and civilly without the need for a moderator to step in and fix the problem for you.
And let me paraphrase:

Stop attacking good threads.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#9 Post by Ford Prefect »

Oh, a thread where I can criticize the moderators? Where to begin...
1. Moderators were directly involved in derailing my Marriage thread. Aren't they supposed to be the ones keeping things on topic? Reaper corrected, but the point still stands.
2. Why do people get away with having blatantly offensive signatures? (If my current one counts and it's actually enforced, then I will be happy to change it.)
3. Why are people who do little but troll not yet banned from the forums?
4. Why is it that when I used the report button, I was basically told by Teh_W00tz via PM that it wasn't decent of me to expect moderators to do their jobs?
5. Why was an on-topic post of mine deleted along with the off-topic posts in this thread?
6. Why is Luft_Waffles not only seemingly biased against Dark_Nemesis, but actually threatening to use his powers to delete DN's posts out of simple annoyance with his choice of words?
7. Why aren't moderator interventions dealt with over pm, creating a more professional appearance?
Last edited by Ford Prefect on September 1st, 2009, 1:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#10 Post by Discombobulator »

Ford Prefect wrote:Oh, a thread where I can criticize the moderators? Where to begin...
1. Moderators were directly involved in derailing my Marriage thread. Aren't they supposed to be the ones keeping things on topic?
2. Why do people get away with having blatantly offensive signatures? (If my current one counts and it's actually enforced, then I will be happy to change it.)
3. Why are people who do little but troll not yet banned from the forums?
4. Why is it that when I used the report button, I was basically told by Teh_W00tz via PM that it wasn't decent of me to expect moderators to do their jobs?
5. Why was an on-topic post of mine deleted along with the off-topic posts in this thread?
6. Why is Luft_Waffles not only seemingly biased against Dark_Nemesis, but actually threatening to use his powers to delete DN's posts out of simple annoyance with his choice of words?
7. Why aren't moderator interventions dealt with over pm, creating a more professional appearance?
Why do you feel entitled to whine about the way things are run around here?

That's more important than your 7 questions combined.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#11 Post by Ford Prefect »

That would be number 3. Thanks for providing an excellent example. Oh, and that's a good example of 2, too.
I'd answer your question, but since you're simply trolling, I'll ignore it.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#12 Post by Dark_Nemesis »

6. Why is Luft_Waffles not only seemingly biased against Dark_Nemesis, but actually threatening to use his powers to delete DN's posts out of simple annoyance with his choice of words?
Why the hell would you defend me?
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#13 Post by Ford Prefect »

I am not defending you. I am criticizing Luft. It is my belief that moderators should act in an unbiased manner, regardless of their feelings towards an individual. Whatever my opinion of you, I still think you should be treated fairly by the moderators.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#14 Post by Dark_Nemesis »

Well, despite the fact that we hate each other, I agree with that 100%. Luft got so bad in fact, I took him to another mod. Just an fyi.

And something needs to be done. They get away with garbage all the time and no one holds them accountable.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#15 Post by BustroQuick »

Dark_Nemesis wrote:
6. Why is Luft_Waffles not only seemingly biased against Dark_Nemesis, but actually threatening to use his powers to delete DN's posts out of simple annoyance with his choice of words?
Why the hell would you defend me?
Because personal bias aside (from viewing his signature) I think he believes in a greater system.

Responding to you, Ford:
1. Moderators were directly involved in derailing my Marriage thread. Aren't they supposed to be the ones keeping things on topic?
Many of the moderators are volunteer and still partake in the community as normal users, power aside. I apologize for the inconvenience.
2. Why do people get away with having blatantly offensive signatures? (If my current one counts and it's actually enforced, then I will be happy to change it.)
There was a point where I asked for all offensive signatures to be removed, perhaps greater enforcement is in order.
3. Why are people who do little but troll not yet banned from the forums?
I'll discuss this with the other mods.
4. Why is it that when I used the report button, I was basically told by Teh_W00tz via PM that it wasn't decent of me to expect moderators to do their jobs?
I think I'll need more detail on the matter if I'm to answer this question further.
5. Why was an on-topic post of mine deleted along with the off-topic posts in this thread?
If you can describe the post to me I'll see if I can retrieve it, typically the mods are required to post a reason for such deletion in the mod forum.
6. Why is Luft_Waffles not only seemingly biased against Dark_Nemesis, but actually threatening to use his powers to delete DN's posts out of simple annoyance with his choice of words?
I think this is a question Luft will have to answer himself.
7. Why aren't moderator interventions dealt with over pm, creating a more professional appearance?
I'm not sure I follow you here. Having the moderators post publicly should create a greater feeling of their presence, hence people should cause less incursion with the rules.

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Re: Mod Suggestions

#16 Post by Dark_Nemesis »

If you can describe the post to me I'll see if I can retrieve it, typically the mods are required to post a reason for such deletion in the mod forum.
This has happened numerous times with me as well. I mentioned in my complaint PM about Ion, don't know if you remember. I remember one, I simply asked why a offensive post wasn't deleted. Ion then deleted mine (asking the question) and when I went back to view that topic, the offensive post was still there. Rather interesting to say the least.

And I have seen it happen to a couple of others, can't remember the names, but the posts were legit and on-topic, yet were either locked or deleted. Luft is responsible for 90% of this I'd say.

There was a point where I asked for all offensive signatures to be removed, perhaps greater enforcement is in order.
Agreed.
I think I'll need more detail on the matter if I'm to answer this question further.
Again, this has happened to me as well. Tehwootz complained that too many reports were being issued. I can understand moderation, in everthing. But if upwards of 5 reports are being PM'd? Don't you think it may have something to do with the mods not doing their job rather than a few paltry complaints? Don't mean to sound harsh. My 2 cents.
I think this is a question Luft will have to answer himself.
I look forward to an intelligent and reasonable answer to this one.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#17 Post by Tehw00tz »

No, I told you to stop reporting a post when it hurts your feelings or you didn't agree with it. I had five reported posts inbetween the both of you (dark and ford) in one thread, not counting the other ones that the other moderators closed. I can't do anything about someone's lack of ability to put together a good argument, reporting it does nothing but waste mine and others' time. We (the mods) are not keen on banning people who haven't had a history of warnings. In the Off Topic we're not going to moderate as strictly as other places because it's Off Topic if it's not hindering yak's ability to get ideas for the game, hence the reason we have the forums, I'm not going to waste my time with some minor trolling because some people can't take a joke. Now if any posts violate major rules stated in the ToS (generally illegal things/18+ material) I'll be happy to read a report on it from a member of the forums and delete the topic and ban the person violating the rules.

If you REALLY want me to moderate the Off Topic as strictly as any other forums I'll be happy to start right now.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#18 Post by Dark_Nemesis »

because some people can't take a joke.
I find it interesting the fine line between 'joke' and 'attack', don't you?
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#19 Post by Ford Prefect »

I have a lot of negative opinions about your personality, DN, but I don't actually hate you. My hate is reserved for those who display conscious and unwarranted malice towards others.

To add to 7, there's a few reasons why it should be privately dealt with. In direct response to what you said, moderators posting should provide a sense of presence, and anyone breaking the rules would find out quickly enough that the rules are enforced... if they are. Along with that, public posts can be made for multiple people skirting the rules, and closed threads are, by nature, public. Back to the reason, anyone chastised publicly is going to be embarrassed and probably angered by it. Okay, so it's only one reason, but I think it's a good one. I thought I had more, but I forgot them, if so.

The deleted post suggested adding a Debate forum, and I offered to moderate it, if it were created. I can't remember much beyond that.
BustroQuick wrote:Many of the moderators are volunteer and still partake in the community as normal users, power aside. I apologize for the inconvenience.
I completely understand this, but the way I see it is that a person is both a moderator and a user. In some ways, these overlap, since a user is expected to follow the rules, and the moderators (normally) represents the shining example of what a user should be, thus they would make sure their posts are on topic. On the other hand, they can have an opinion as a user, while still keeping their moderator duties in mind. Using recent topics as an example, someone can have an intense dislike for Dark_Nemesis and disagree with him vehemently, but when someone comes along and insults him, the moderator will give the appropriate warning to the person doing the insulting, even if he agrees with the insult completely.

While my reason for reporting the posts was less than noble, I am quite sure that the posts I reported were offensive, and thus deserved to be reported. I never reported a post simply because I didn't agree with it. Perhaps I should reread the guidelines, but I thought that offensive comments weren't allowed.
And, if you want to quibble over what was said, here is the content of your last PM on the matter:
Tehw00tz wrote:Bothering me and the other moderators with a disagreement via the report post button is not decency.
As for this:
Tehw00tz wrote:If you REALLY want me to moderate the Off Topic as strictly as any other forums I'll be happy to start right now.
Yes.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#20 Post by Discombobulator »

I support the way moderation is today, except that certain generally stupid posters (they know who they are) should be banned.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#21 Post by Ford Prefect »

Alright, so I had exactly two people in mind when I posted number 3. Now that I look around, though, you actually make a lot of relevant posts, Disc. That being said, I still think you should be warned every time you troll, and be banned should you fail to heed the warnings. Which would have happened already, if that were being done.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#22 Post by Ford Prefect »

Welcome to the EotA forums:
Forum Guidelines wrote: 1. Remember that we're all humans here: You don't have to be friends with or even like everybody, but you must treat others with respect. It's ok to disagree with someone, and it's ok to make your disagreement known, but don't be unnecessarily harsh or cruel.
Please enjoy your stay.
Last edited by Ford Prefect on September 1st, 2009, 5:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#23 Post by Dark_Nemesis »

you're saying I should be banned?
Absolutely.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#24 Post by Luftwaffles »

6. Why is Luft_Waffles not only seemingly biased against Dark_Nemesis, but actually threatening to use his powers to delete DN's posts out of simple annoyance with his choice of words?
This is definitely more then one question and I'll try and answer it as best I can.

For a second, put yourself in my shoes. Everyday I get on these forums and look at the new topics just to skim through them and see if anything is going on that probably shouldn't be. In just about every active thread there's a DarkNemesis post. Typically Dark is posting something contreversial that several people disagree with and it sort of degrades over time into a flame war or some kind of fight. This is what I come on to every single day.

Here's a look at my inbox:
Yeah by Dark_Nemesis » August 30th, 2009, 7:25 pm
Re: WTF?
by Dark_Nemesis » August 15th, 2009, 7:15 pm
Re: WTF?
by Dark_Nemesis » August 13th, 2009, 4:27 pm
Re: Uhh...?
by Dark_Nemesis » August 13th, 2009, 4:21 pm
Uhh...?
by Dark_Nemesis » August 13th, 2009, 3:06 pm
Re: WTF?
by Dark_Nemesis » August 13th, 2009, 2:58 pm
Re: WTF?
by Dark_Nemesis » August 11th, 2009, 4:26 pm
Re: WTF?
by Dark_Nemesis » August 9th, 2009, 9:16 pm
Re: WTF?
by Dark_Nemesis » August 9th, 2009, 12:48 pm
Re: ^^
by Elle-Belle » August 8th, 2009, 10:47 pm
Re: WTF?
by Dark_Nemesis » August 8th, 2009, 9:30 pm
Re: ^^
by Elle-Belle » August 8th, 2009, 9:24 pm
WTF?
by Dark_Nemesis » August 8th, 2009, 8:30 pm
Re: Board warning issued
by Dark_Nemesis » August 8th, 2009, 5:19 pm
All complaints from Dark about me removing or editing his posts because of things like this:
To even consider the crusades to be an attempted genocide is total bullshit. And your "credible" universities are likely nothing more than radical, anti-christian groups and professors. A 4 year degree doesn't constitute being totally "credible".
The intolerance happened on both sides, though you refuse to believe this.
As for Muhammad, I guess I'll have to provide quotes.
5 bucks says he'll alter this.
or protecting a thread from a flame war that could've started by saying something like this:
How about you go grab that Wretched Skull and create your own army?
Again, you are failing to realize this goes two ways, you could buy a dmg orb and simply melee it? I'm not arguing against consums, not for a second, they are totally useful and worth it. But permanents have their place as well, and a single item can mean the difference between a hero kill or a dead Ob tower.
Dark doesn't help himself by in most PMs either trying to provoke me into an angry response by calling me something, implying I'm a terrible evil mod or he leaves hints that all will be forgiven if I follow his opinion and let him post. This kind of constant stream of BS is going to give me a negative opinion of him since I'm a human being, not an impressionable robot with moderator's powers. So obviously I'm bound to watch his posts more carefully and be more picky. If he wants that to stop, I've let him know about 3 times now that all he has to do is try and follow the guidelines I set him out in a PM almost a month ago (which should, if he follows them, make his posts unoffensive, useful and informative).

Now you ask why I would threaten to ban him for saying something like "Too, you shouldn't...blah blah"? I read about 6-10 DarkNemesis posts a day (filled with a great deal more hypocrisy then you would in most other people's posts). I don't bother anyone about spelling or grammar at any time because that's not my job. However, since Dark has in the past berated Dekar for being German (implying he can't speak English properly I guess?) and has picked on other people for ridiculous grammar AND has made it clear he wants to become a journalist AND is not foreigner but a native English speaker, I figure it shouldn't be a problem for him to use "also" or "in addition to" or "as well" instead of "too" in these places. I agree the threat may not at all be appropriate but given the amount of things I have to deal with Dark I don't think it's at all surprising or condemning that in having to read his 6-10 posts a day that an uncommon mistake in the English language would add to my general frustration.
7. Why aren't moderator interventions dealt with over pm, creating a more professional appearance?
We're not professionals we're gamers who like EotA. I was writing the same thing mid-July because I was frustrated with the lack of moderator on this site. I think it's improved slightly since then but I don't think it's reasonable for anyone to assume we're professionals or that we're going to act in a real professional manner. That said we try and be as respectful as possible and do our job in the most objective way we can. If the forum was more active I think we definitely would PM people more about resolving in-thread problems but given that there's maybe 10-12 active posters on the site, a few mods and some people who post infrequently I just see it as an extra inconvienance for us. But in serious cases (of which there's only been a few considering the number of posters we have) we usually do do that.
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Re: Mod Suggestions

#25 Post by Ford Prefect »

I didn't mean to suggest you were professionals. I've never been on a forum where it was moderated by professionals. I was suggesting that it would be more... *fishes for another word*... appropriate, I guess, to deal with it privately.
I didn't realize there were so few active people on here. No wonder Discombobulator and his ilk can get away with stuff like he posted above. Banning 1/12 of your active membership would be a bit of a problem.
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