Item degradation

[Reaper]

ToXiK's latest topic reminded me of something I've been meaning to suggest for a while now.

That is, I think an 'untemper' or some other word for degrading an item by one level should be added to the altar. This way, if one needs some instant money for mercs or obelisk towers, he wouldn't be forced to sell his knights armor +5 and then build another one back up to 3 or whatever. In general I think it's just a good idea to have as a convenience.

I don't see any potential problems here, it's a matter of saving time; it's time that could be spent doing more useful things.

[A_New_Dawn]

A great idea, I've often wanted this option.

[jamn455]

This is just a matter of being lazy to do something. If you need the money that bad, you shouldn't mind selling it and retempering it.

[A_New_Dawn]

Its just nice to have another "convenience" as reaper put it.

I always thought it would be cool if you could also buy Mana and HP regen.

Say 1/2 of 1 point (for Hp) and 10% (for mana).

Just a thought.

[Reaper]

Yeah, well at least I got yak to change temper to 1 second. But still, you have to go sell the item, rebuy, and temper it back up, when you could have a button to just -1 the item instead.

[DarnYak]

The process to do this is a bit hard atm and isn't really possible untill I redo the entire item system.

DarnYak

[Strychnyne]

You guys DO realize you can sell your item for 100% of the rate you bought it for, right? Meaning you can sell it, merc to your hearts desire, then BUY IT AGAIN. The feature is already there, you just didn't see it. I didnt read the thread so if it's been mentioned already then kudos to whoever pointed it out. Pointless feature is pointless.

Also, Dawn, you get that buy upgrading your Int and Str, as well as a bonus to hp and capacity. Again, it's already there.

[A_New_Dawn]

Yes, but you need alot of INt/STr to start to get those usefull effects.

Again, it was just an idea, not really expecting anything from it.

[Reaper]

Read what I said again maybe? I'm talking about skipping the whole 'waste 30 seconds selling and rebuying while base gets crushed' idea

Basically because one of these things will happen
1: You sell your unupgraded item for money, use it, no time wasted.
2: You sell your +2 through +5 item for money, most likely more than you need, use some of it, rebuy item and upgrade, time wasted running back and forth to shop and altar. Plus if you don't rebuy and upgrade the item you had right away, you're weaker than you were before temporarily.

Thus a button that would downgrade an item and give you back 100% of that cost would be more time effective, possibly enough time to make a difference in a close game (although I realize both sides would have the same advantage). In general, get back to the fight more quickly.

[Strychnyne]

Read what I said again maybe?

You guys DO realize you can sell your item for 100% of the rate you bought it for, right? Meaning you can sell it, merc to your hearts desire, then BUY IT AGAIN. The feature is already there, you just didn't see it. I didnt read the thread so if it's been mentioned already then kudos to whoever pointed it out. Pointless feature is pointless.

Read what you said again? I didn't read it in the first place. You should read what I said first, before criticising my reading skills.

But be that as it may, in the situation you described, you get the money first no matter what, thus the whole issue of timing is moot. How long does it take to walk back across your base, buy the item, and upgrade it again to the desired level? 30 seconds? Maybe? What if you wanted to degrade it more than once? There'd be a cool down to it, right? Plus you'd have to think about how much gold you needed. What if it wasn't enough? You'd have to wait longer. Really, it's unnecessary, and probably worse off. Hell, even the extra time needed to put that in the map would get in the way of other things, delay release of 1.12, and take time from fixing Geyser. WHY DO YOU HATE THE MAP SO MUCH REAPER?!

Or, here's a novel idea, ask your team mates for gold? Pool to them, letting them get the merc? What's so damn expensive that 400 gp can't cure? If it can't, you probably getting a base or a merc hero, something people would gladly chip in for.

Dawn, I'm not sure about the exact values, someone might add them, but a few points in INT does add a fair bit of mana regain, if memory serves. And can you imagine what, say, a Gravel with maxed mana regen would be like? Mana regen that isn't a gold sink? Or someone who's focused on INT, AND mana regen, AND has the orb? *shudder*

[jamn455]

This is just a matter of being lazy to do something. If you need the money that bad, you shouldn't mind selling it and retempering it.

I still stand by my old statement.

[Reaper]

First of all, calm down. I did read that you hadn't read the thread, what I meant to say is maybe it's a good idea since I adressed why it wouldn't be pointless -_-

But be that as it may, in the situation you described, you get the money first no matter what, thus the whole issue of timing is moot. How long does it take to walk back across your base, buy the item, and upgrade it again to the desired level? 30 seconds? Maybe?

I'm talking about skipping the whole 'waste 30 seconds selling and rebuying while base gets crushed' idea

Next.

What if you wanted to degrade it more than once? There'd be a cool down to it, right? Plus you'd have to think about how much gold you needed. What if it wasn't enough? You'd have to wait longer. Really, it's unnecessary, and probably worse off.

Yeah, well at least I got yak to change temper to 1 second.

Assuming some logic is followed, the 'untemper' or whatever it is will be 1 second also.
Sell, merc, rebuy: ~30sec
Degrade 1 or 2 times: ~3sec
Extra 27s: ~Let's say stop a base seige, make some money, and level up

Hell, even the extra time needed to put that in the map would get in the way of other things, delay release of 1.12, and take time from fixing Geyser. WHY DO YOU HATE THE MAP SO MUCH REAPER?!

So I somehow implied this was to make it into 1.12 and is more important the geyser fix? NO, it was merely a suggestion on how to improve eota slightly.

Or, here's a novel idea, ask your team mates for gold? Pool to them, letting them get the merc? What's so damn expensive that 400 gp can't cure? If it can't, you probably getting a base or a merc hero, something people would gladly chip in for.

Yes, I'm aware of this possible scenario. Ideally a team will work together, but in the event that one ends up doing all this himself, even 30 seconds would be precious time.


Summary: It's a suggestion on how I think eota could be improved. I don't think it's more important than other things like 1.12 and geyser. If there was nothing else to do to make the map better, it wouldn't hurt a damn thing to throw it in.

[A_New_Dawn]

Read what I said again maybe?

You guys DO realize you can sell your item for 100% of the rate you bought it for, right? Meaning you can sell it, merc to your hearts desire, then BUY IT AGAIN. The feature is already there, you just didn't see it. I didnt read the thread so if it's been mentioned already then kudos to whoever pointed it out. Pointless feature is pointless.

Read what you said again? I didn't read it in the first place. You should read what I said first, before criticising my reading skills.

But be that as it may, in the situation you described, you get the money first no matter what, thus the whole issue of timing is moot. How long does it take to walk back across your base, buy the item, and upgrade it again to the desired level? 30 seconds? Maybe? What if you wanted to degrade it more than once? There'd be a cool down to it, right? Plus you'd have to think about how much gold you needed. What if it wasn't enough? You'd have to wait longer. Really, it's unnecessary, and probably worse off. Hell, even the extra time needed to put that in the map would get in the way of other things, delay release of 1.12, and take time from fixing Geyser. WHY DO YOU HATE THE MAP SO MUCH REAPER?!

Or, here's a novel idea, ask your team mates for gold? Pool to them, letting them get the merc? What's so damn expensive that 400 gp can't cure? If it can't, you probably getting a base or a merc hero, something people would gladly chip in for.

Dawn, I'm not sure about the exact values, someone might add them, but a few points in INT does add a fair bit of mana regain, if memory serves. And can you imagine what, say, a Gravel with maxed mana regen would be like? Mana regen that isn't a gold sink? Or someone who's focused on INT, AND mana regen, AND has the orb? *shudder*

But thats just it man, you wouldn't need to focus on INt and even, buying the mana orb, instead you could add more STr or armor, or instead buy the battle orb or life orb. This would open a better option for tanks and low mana heroes who normally have a sacrifice a slot just for mana/mana regen. When I think of a tank I think of a heroe thats got aleast a 1000hp gain on the strongest AGi and more like double on INt. But thats just me again.

P.S. reaper thought of a great concept, not sure why your so against it, it can only make Eota more convenient. Which seems like a good thing to me.

[Dekar]

Assuming some logic is followed, the 'untemper' or whatever it is will be 1 second also.
Sell, merc, rebuy: ~30sec
Degrade 1 or 2 times: ~3sec
Extra 27s: ~Let's say stop a base seige, make some money, and level up

Why do you write you follow some logic, if you dont?

1) "Your base gets crushed"

One could think you mean your mainbase, as you do not mention teleport to a shop.
a) If you are in your mainbase, you are propably closer to a shop than your altar, and as you direly need money, you get it faster by selling the item.
b) If you are somewhere else, you need to teleport and can aswell port in close to a shop. The time for selecting the altar and using the degrade, should be at least as long as just selling the item.

2) 30 seconds to go to the shop and upgrading

ROFL, especially if you start closer to the shop and run past it on the way to the altar.


Conclusion)

Adding this item is nonsense, as EotA is noob unfriendly enough. A button that you the average player will use ... never? doesnt help very much, and the time saving is really nothing to speak of.

[Reaper]

Why do you write you follow some logic, if you dont?

The logic I'm talking about is that a degrade function would be 1 second, which I used to approximate the amounts of time things would take.

1) "Your base gets crushed"

One could think you mean your mainbase, as you do not mention teleport to a shop.

No, then obviously it wouldn't matter. I'm talking about an outpost base being sieged. Also, teleporting to a shop?

a) If you are in your mainbase, you are propably closer to a shop than your altar, and as you direly need money, you get it faster by selling the item.
b) If you are somewhere else, you need to teleport and can aswell port in close to a shop. The time for selecting the altar and using the degrade, should be at least as long as just selling the item.

No, you can teleport directly to your altar, degrade it, go back. That would be optimal.

Adding this item is nonsense, as EotA is noob unfriendly enough. A button that you the average player will use ... never? doesnt help very much, and the time saving is really nothing to speak of.

It's not an item, it's a function like temper. It would save time and would be used at least by myself as opposed to wasting time doing it another way. Saving time equates to saving the base more quickly. Even if it only saved 10 seconds, it would still be worth saving the towers/outpost from 10s of siege damage.

This is just a matter of being lazy to do something. If you need the money that bad, you shouldn't mind selling it and retempering it.

I still stand by my old statement.

I am lazy when it comes to wanting to do things as fast as possible. It's not to say I don't mind doing it, I just think it could be more efficient.

[jamn455]

Alright lets put this into a story.

A knight walks up to the local armory and says, "Hello sir, can you reinforce my armor with steel."

Later the same knight walks up, WITH USED, BUSTED UP ARMOR FROM A DAY AT BATTLE, and says, "I need money to feed my family, take off this steel and give me my money back."

Sound reasonable? I think not.

[Reaper]

Bah

[A_New_Dawn]

Why are you guys flaming reaper for? is it a crime to come up with new ideas and concepts?

Thought thats what this forum was for: posting ideas.

Take it easy guys, he just posted an idea of his.

And yes, I still like your concept reaper.

[Dekar]

*double post*

[Dekar]

Teleporting close to a shop = saves one way walking = makes degen even more redundant.

"Item" = Idea

Not to forget the already stated fact, that TEAMPLAY aka pooling is far more efficiant.

[Soulbourne]

Nature is the laziest of us all...

And I'm naturally assuming that our fine heros take great care with their items, keeping in top condition. So they walk in, the guy removes the improvements, and sells them for scrap or a "Hero Quality" item for a highly raised price. And in case of those magic hero's well the stuff is bonded with magic that leaked into it from constant use of magic and possibly blood, sweat, tears, etc.


Now let's put the current system to your story:


Knight walks in and asks for his armor to be reinforced. Two days later he walks in with his armor beaten and blood covered, "Yes, I'd like to sell this armor for same price I bought and upgraded it for." Embarrassed he says, "I gambled away my pay, hehe."


And since I got a post before me while typing: How do you teleport to a shop, do scrolls affect them? Always such a long walk to ancient of wonders and all.

[Reaper]

I'm done discussing it; I've backed up my idea with perfect logic and if anyone can't figure it out I'm sorry.

[A_New_Dawn]

Perfect logic is granted to those who are open to new ideas and concepts and listen first instead of dismissing...

In this situation, Reaper and myself.

[Strychnyne]

Deleted double post - Reaper

Well, my perfectly worded reply was just lost. So I'll break it down.

-A New Dawn, when you give reason for why you don't like something it is NOT flaming. It is just criticism. I don't have to like every new idea I hear. Most of them are stupid. This one is redundant.

-Reaper, all your back up I have refuted. It would take more time to go back to your altar than sell it at any of the stores around the map. Unless you were already in your base, you're losing time and gold.

-You would have to think about how much gold you were getting back from each degrade, and if you needed more than 1 level of it taken off there is time lost and your mental math might just suck.

-There is really no situation where this would be more useful than the mechanics already available in the map.

-Jamn, that's the smartest thing I've ever seen you write. Congrats. Your point ends this conversation.

[Soulbourne]

This is just a matter of being lazy to do something. If you need the money that bad, you shouldn't mind selling it and retempering it.

That's the smartest thing he's ever wrote here? That's doubtful but if it's true....