More Generator Suggestions: Devastation

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RSOG
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More Generator Suggestions: Devastation

#1 Post by RSOG »

In my previous thread, I pointed out that given that Crystal Generators provide a direct conversion of Energy*Time into Crystal, the effects of Generators need to be at least as good (or better - There's a Crystal->Gold conversion, but you're almost always better off spending the crystal on other things) than that crystal would be, in order to not be underpowered.

There are several generators that I feel are not "To Par" with the Crystal Generator. Namely: Arcane, Devastation, Bomb, and Execution. Bomb and Siege both have other problems in addition to this, but I'll bring those up later.

This thread is about the Devastation generator.

Let's first look at the cost. They have the long (five minute?) build time that all generators do, along with a decent (one minute?) upgrade time. The 150 gold cost seems trivial, except that these generators are only useful in piles of four, where that cost is closer to the price of a real defense tower, if you count the extra workers you hired to build the generators. Compared to a Crystal Generator, it costs half the energy, so, by conversion, a minute of keeping one Devastation Generator running is one crystal lost. Compared to a Defense Generator, it costs slightly more energy, for (in my opinion) considerably less effect.

So what is the purpose of a Devastation Generator? To harvest gold by sniping miners? No, it'll get killed by enemy heroes since it has only Medium Armor and only a small pile of hit points. To help defend a base? Nope again, Defense Generators cost less and do more there. To help defend an obelisk? Nah, anything that can take down an obelisk tower can destroy the generator without breaking a sweat. To serve as a temporary defense in a base you've just captured or are about to lose while you (re)build towers? Nah. Either the base'll be done or you'll have the money for towers before the generator finishes building.

And that's just it. The Devastation Generator, as far as I can tell, has to situation where it is really useful.

There's some things that I don't expect to change. I suspect that the long build time on generators solves some balance problem that was created by reducing their cost down from 500. I figure that they have Medium Armor and low HP for a good reason. Unfortunately, this confines Generators to being built in safe areas, such as inside your own base. For a generator that's just a sub-par defensive tower, being confined to being built in areas that are already safe rather defeats the purpose.

So it has to be a better defensive tower. It costs less gold than other defensive towers, but that's offset by the high crystal opportunity cost - if the Crystal Generator is meant to be a less-than-fair trade like the Goblin Lab, then the energy cost is much higher than the crystal cost of the towers. It also has one huge advantage over other towers: Its kills give the player gold, instead of giving it to the computer.

Solution by Number Increasing
The most direct solution would be to buff its damage and attack range. I feel that this wouldn't be a "good" fix for several reasons. The first is that it still doesn't really do much in its intended role. Even if it were doing 50 damage a shot, it wouldn't be adequate protection against large waves of spawnies, because it still only hits one at a time. The second is that it virtually would guarantee a killing blow against the single unit that it is attacking - which would make the generator worthwhile, but as a gold generator and not as a defensive tower. Another reason is that it's simply boring. It doesn't feel impressive, at least to me, to have a generator plunking off spawnies one at a time. The last, and most minor reason, is that it infringes on the domain of the Execution Generator. The easy fix is to just not let it target heroes (does it already?), but even then, the two would be very similar in form if not in function.

I think we have to take away its attack and give it an ability instead, in order for it to be interesting. There's two abilities that come to mind: Immolation and Phoenix Fire.

Solution by Immolation
Remove the Devastation Generator's attack, and reduce its mana, which it currently doesn't use at all, to 80 (Note: This will aggravate another exploit, but I won't post about it on the forums) and instead give it an Immolation ability (No activation cost, 2 mana per second, 800 radius, damage to-be-determined). Its immolation deactivates whenever there are no enemy units in range - excluding heroes - and activate it whenever they get close. It's mana regeneration also does not function while non-hero enemies are in Immolation range, regardless of whether Immolation is active or not.

This change would make the generator very powerful against large waves, but run dry quickly against long streams of enemies.

Solution by Phoenix Fire
Remove the Devastation Generator's attack, remove its mana (this will partially solve the above-mentioned exploit, although the same would have to be done for Execution generators), and instead give it three copies of an extended-range Phoenix Fire. Unlike a normal attack, this makes it impossible for it to focus its attacks on a single unit to guarantee a kill. And unlike immolation, it does not do better against gigantic waves than small ones. It also doesn't run out of mana.

This change would make the generator very powerful against long streams of enemies, but get overwhelmed like normal defensive towers when faced with large waves.


Input is welcome. I think I'll be looking at Bomb Generators next.

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Dekar
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Re: More Generator Suggestions: Devastation

#2 Post by Dekar »

The exploit propably involves upgrading into a fast mana regeneration generator and then later downgrading it and upgrading into an arcane which starts with a good amount of mana then, due to some buggyness of the upgrade/downgrade system. D:

How about a cool triggered automatically used for devastation gens? Or adding a debuffing aura to them? Only the sky is your limit!
<EotA@Azeroth> YAKS GO MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Dekar: the ultimate ocean themed hero should buff and depend on spawn waves!
DarnYak: why is that
Dekar: WAVES
Dekar: :D
DarnYak: i was afraid that was the answer

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Re: More Generator Suggestions: Devastation

#3 Post by RSOG »

Dekar wrote:The exploit propably involves upgrading into a fast mana regeneration generator and then later downgrading it and upgrading into an arcane which starts with a good amount of mana then, due to some buggyness of the upgrade/downgrade system. D:
Yes. That's the one. So there isn't a taboo against posting exploitable bugs on the forums? (Although technically your repro-steps aren't correct, your exactly right about the effects of the bug.)

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Dekar
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Re: More Generator Suggestions: Devastation

#4 Post by Dekar »

If you can spam arcane stuff with it, the worst thing that will happen is forcing yak to release d earlier. :o

And for that it must be abused in pubs, a lot. And that requires people reading this forum.
<EotA@Azeroth> YAKS GO MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Dekar: the ultimate ocean themed hero should buff and depend on spawn waves!
DarnYak: why is that
Dekar: WAVES
Dekar: :D
DarnYak: i was afraid that was the answer

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Re: More Generator Suggestions: Devastation

#5 Post by RSOG »

*Shrug* Okay. I'll post the exact repro, and its ramifications, in the Bug Reports forum.

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