Skeletal Swordsmaster

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Skeletal Swordsmaster

#1 Post by CryptLord1234 »

Alright, it's been awhile since I've posted a hero idea, 'ere we go. The idea behind this one is that the unit is an incredibly flexible unit, with a couple of unique playstyles:

Skeletal Swordsmaster:

Starting stats. In this, I'm giving a general range, and leave the specific numbers to the developer. Sorry, Yak:

Str: Med
Agi: Med
Int: Med

Growth rate: Again, general range. Specific numbers would be from playtesting:

Str growth rate: med
Agi growth rate: med
Int growth rate: med/low

Now, on to his skills: (Do note, each variable applies only to its spell. IE, X in Osseus Spear =/= X in Bone Strike)

Innate: Osseus Spear: Deals X * (moderate influence of Agi) damage in a line, and returns a fraction of that as health (Based off Str).

Bone Strike: Deals X + (moderate influence of Agi). Depending on how deep in Shattering Stance the Skeletal Swordsmaster is (More on that later), it will deal more damage. Top level buff of Shattering Stance will apply a Damage-Over-Time as well. In addition, if the target dies from Bone Strike, it creates 5 Bone Shards which follow the Swordsmaster and attack his enemies. The Bone Shards last 30 seconds. Each level increases X, Bone Shard duration, and DoT damage.

Ribcage Expansion: A defensive move that the Skeletal Swordsmaster uses. He expands his ribcage and hardens it, blocking all incoming attacks for X + (small influence of Str) seconds. In addition, depending on how deep in Splinting Stance the Skeletal Swordsmaster is, it will return a fraction (based off Str) of that damage to the attacker. Top level buff of Splinting Stance will cause the Skeletal Swordsmaster to lose some HP as well, but throw out an Osseus Spear in each direction (Front, Back, Left, Right of him). Each level reduces mana cost and increases X.

Marrowdance: Originally starts in Shattering Stance. While in Shattering Stance, for each attack the Skeletal Swordsman performs, he gains X/1.75X/2.5X/3.25X/4X/4.75X damage, and loses 3X/2.8X/2.6X/2.4X/2.2X/2X. When used in Shattering Stance, Marrowdance switches him to Splinting Stance and summons 4 Bone Shards, which attack his allies. These last until killed. While in Splinting Stance, for each attack the Skeletal Swordsman performs, he gains Y/1.75Y/2.5Y/3.25Y/4Y/4.75Y armor and loses 3Y/2.8Y/2.6Y/2.4Y/2.2Y/2Y attack damage. When used in Splinting Stance, Marrowdance switches him to Shattering Stance and applies a shield to him, equal to Z + (moderate/high influence of Str) to him.Increasing levels, in addition to above changes, decreases mana cost of switching slightly, and increases Z.

Bonebreaker: An attack which deals X * (moderate influence of Agi) damage to the target. In addition, all enemies near the target take Y * (low influence of Str) damage. If any enemies die to Bonebreaker, the Skeletal Swordsmaster gains Z damage and armor for the next 30 seconds, and a pair of Bone Shards are spawned at the corpse.Increasing level increases X, Y, Z, Bone Shard duration. Z's growth should be rather low.

Ultimate:Dark Massacre: The Skeletal Swordsmaster becomes one with his unholy weapon, to the woe of all nearby enemies. For each level of Shattering Stance, he loses X * (moderate influence of Str) health, and deals X * (moderate influence of Str) health to all nearby enemies. For each level of Splinting Stance, he gains Y * (lesser influence of Agi) health, and heals Y * (lesser influence of Agi) health to all nearby allies -- And himself. If he does not heal at all, he retains his buffs. If he does not do any damage, he also turns all allies near him invulnerable for Z seconds. This will consume all Splinting and Shattering Stance buffs, unless otherwise mentioned.Increasing level increases X, Y, Z, decreases mana cost.

Talents:

Dark Mending: The Skeletal Swordsman gains X/1.5X/2X% of his current health, per level of Splinting Stance, whenever he attacks, if he is in Splinting Stance.

Rotten Marrow: The Skeletal Swordsman applies a small poison, lasting X/2X/3X seconds, per level of Shattering Stance whenever he attacks, if he is in Shattering Stance.

Mastery of Bone:: Bone Strike will apply its Damage-Over-Time effect when Shattering Stance is at level 4 or level 5, and Ribcage Expansion will drain HP and throw an Osseus Spear forward when the level of the Splinting Stance buff is level 4 or level 5.



So there we have it. The idea behind him is to be incredibly flexible, the jack-of-all-trades character. He is designed to encourage a happy medium -- 2 stacks of Shattering Stance, 3 of Splinting Stance will result in a buff on both attack and defense. However, 5 stacks of Shattering Stance will result in one hell of an attacker, if weak, while 5 stacks of Splinting Stance will make him durable -- Not as durable as a true 'tank' character, nor will he hit too hard, but he will be quite durable for the fast character he is. His abilities are geared toward manipulating those Stances, and his ultimate lets you cash in on the jack-of-all-trades that he is supposed to be.

Note removed; people don't like sketches, they like formulas.

Edit: Worked on stats, abilities, combined Shattering and Splinting Stances, wrote down skill level benefits, etc., etc.
Last edited by CryptLord1234 on March 20th, 2009, 10:24 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#2 Post by DarkNemesis »

Love it. Nods to the Cryptlord. He's UD, I assume, cool skeleton warrior model, right? :wink: :D :P

The only thought I had was the stats. I know it really doesn't matter, but if hes a jack-of-all-trades, you'd think his stats would be a bit more equal.

Too, overall, your guy definitely seems to be oriented more toward tanking. With all the Strength-based skills and defense abilities. But the low HP gain might be a problem? Just a thought. Love the concept, truly great. I really hope Yak checks this out, Crypt, it has some very fine merits. :wink:
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#3 Post by Reaper »

2 skills that are just tiny buffs that affect other skills seems crappy compared to a solid spell.

do they get skill levels? I don't understand what you're trying to do there, no room to improve them. Also that is too many passives.

also units like '1 attack power' or '2 armor' are so tiny they don't matter. There's a thing for placeholders called 'variables' that are more effecient than a number with a value.



otherwise I'd say it's mediocre at best
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#4 Post by CryptLord1234 »

Reaper, the idea behind the two passive spells, which I just called autocast spells, is that they do provide a buff and a focus to the hero. And, yes, I probably could've -- and will -- go back and edit variables in there, rather than throw numbers in there, the reason I didn't use variables at first was to show that one value is a larger than the other.

The passives, if you can find a way to make them truly passive, have one enabled, and give them an active ability, would be better, this is true. Just passive abilities suck.

As for the stances, yes they get skill levels. Forgot to detail that, will edit it in.

"Mediocre at best" ? Okay, why? You say other than those issues, which I will fix, but if you're gonna claim something, please explain. Personally, I feel like he would be a flexible addition to the UD race that isn't really filled by anyone else. The only one who comes close in flexibility terms is Nephilim, and while there are better damage dealers, those don't take damage nearly as well as I would envision this guy being able to, if he put his stances toward it.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#5 Post by DarkNemesis »

Also that is too many passives.
Why the hell is it somehow wrong for any new hero to have a passive concept? Unless of course, DarnYak submits it... :roll: Then its peaches n' cream.
2 skills that are just tiny buffs that affect other skills seems crappy compared to a solid spell.
Not every skill is suppose to be jaw dropping.
otherwise I'd say it's mediocre at best
Funny coming from you, who think that the dryad is one of the best heros. :lol:

Rofl

Lolz

This is a great hero concept, by far one of the best I've seen. Also, Reaper you need to look at this idea overall, not just cherry pick at him.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#6 Post by Reaper »

Because this hero would be dominated by any other hero

Because passives don't do shit

Because Dryad is still one of the best creep heroes. Still.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#7 Post by Ion »

Passives are also boring to play with and, although I can't speak for Yak (he'll have to come and say it) I vaguely remember him mentioning in the past he personally does not like passives for the same reason (hence why the Harpy/RK had their passives turned into skills).
Funny coming from you, who think that the dryad is one of the best heros.

This is a great hero concept, by far one of the best I've seen. Also, Reaper you need to look at this idea overall, not just cherry pick at him.
I assume if you've finished high school and been to college or university you'd know that "cherry picking" is a fundamental aspect of criticism and is basically the core of what you do when you write papers. Talking about things in general forms are great, but the specifics- especially in games like these, are what people are going to notice while they're playing the hero. Laser's "cherry picking" would be beneficial in this case for making a hero because he's pointing out a problem that he sees (over-abundance of passives) that could deter from the fun in playing the hero. This is not stupid or detracting from the actual hero idea in this case, and it would be helpful for Crypt to know this kind of thing.

On another note, I think you should probably come on actual b-net and start playing the game with us clannies. If you are certain the Dryad sucks then come on and prove it, I'd gladly play you with her and I'm sure people in both CaT and EotA would like to try too. That way you could actually start contributing to these forums in a meaningful way because you'll be participating in the same game experience we are.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#8 Post by Reaper »

Ion wrote:Laser's
heh, also well put. Unfortunately I don't think Dark wants to be corrected. We've offered to play him on bnet several times.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#9 Post by Mills »

To be fair, I highly doubt half of Clan EotA is better than him.

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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#10 Post by DarkNemesis »

Ion wrote:Passives are also boring to play with and, although I can't speak for Yak (he'll have to come and say it) I vaguely remember him mentioning in the past he personally does not like passives for the same reason (hence why the Harpy/RK had their passives turned into skills).
Funny coming from you, who think that the dryad is one of the best heros.

This is a great hero concept, by far one of the best I've seen. Also, Reaper you need to look at this idea overall, not just cherry pick at him.
I assume if you've finished high school and been to college or university you'd know that "cherry picking" is a fundamental aspect of criticism and is basically the core of what you do when you write papers. Talking about things in general forms are great, but the specifics- especially in games like these, are what people are going to notice while they're playing the hero. Laser's "cherry picking" would be beneficial in this case for making a hero because he's pointing out a problem that he sees (over-abundance of passives) that could deter from the fun in playing the hero. This is not stupid or detracting from the actual hero idea in this case, and it would be helpful for Crypt to know this kind of thing.

On another note, I think you should probably come on actual b-net and start playing the game with us clannies. If you are certain the Dryad sucks then come on and prove it, I'd gladly play you with her and I'm sure people in both CaT and EotA would like to try too. That way you could actually start contributing to these forums in a meaningful way because you'll be participating in the same game experience we are.
First off, shut the hell up. I am seriously getting tired of hearing this BS. How many "clanny" games you do a year, Ion? Four? I do more LANs in that time in a month. So stop telling me how to play EotA. God. I am sorry for getting so upset, but honestly, stop. It's so damn old.

I'd be glad to join your bnet games. Though I must warn you I could have hellish bad lag, got this new satellite internet.

I am not claiming Drayd is the worst or even one of the worst. I'm trying to refute you stupid myth that she is even close to the best, she isn't. Most of the time, shes a mediocre hero. A few times, she can be good and even great. But if your only decent most of the time, that says something. So does the damn creator admitting she needs a buff. Or did you miss that part? In my frequent LANs, which are more than equal with your twice-a-year Bnets, she is rarely picked. Very rarely. And actually, the last time she was, she was repeatedly raped by a good Neph. So sorry.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#11 Post by Tehw00tz »

DarkNemesis wrote:So does the damn creator admitting she needs a buff. Or did you miss that part?
Tehw00tz wrote:It's understandable that you wouldn't understand sarcasm.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#12 Post by DarkNemesis »

There was nothing sarcastic about it, he was serious.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#13 Post by Tehw00tz »

DarnYak wrote:
DarnYak wrote:
ToXiK wrote:I agree, buff the Arboreal Crusader.
Can't argue with this post.
DarnYak wrote:
Well considering Yak has noted she needs a buff, you should be. I'm done as well, as your arguments are erroneous and weak.
That was a sarcastic reply to tox posting, nothing more.
I suggest Dark re-reads these two posts together before posting again on my comments about dryad.

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DarkNemesis wrote:There was nothing sarcastic about it, he was serious.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#14 Post by DarkNemesis »

EXHIBIT A: LOL
.
A period is not a post.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#15 Post by CryptLord1234 »

Reaper wrote:Because this hero would be dominated by any other hero

Because passives don't do shit

Because Dryad is still one of the best creep heroes. Still.
This hero would be dominated by any other hero because. . .? You definitely have a chance to leave. A higher than average move speed, combined with quickly switching to Splinting Stance and hitting your Ribcage Expansion? That'll reduce the damage you take, enough so to GTFO. Alternatively, you can put pressure on the opponent by switching to Shattering Stance, getting the enemy hurt a bit, then burst with Bone Strike and Osseus Spear. So, no, you won't get owned. Sorry.

Passives don't do shit 'cause that's what they are -- PASSIVE. A bonus granted over time -- And do note this is not strictly a passive. Again, and you seem to have missed this, I said 'autocast' because at the time, I could not think of a passive/active setup like any other hero has. And you're acting like "IT'S PASSIVE, THEREFORE IT SUCKS." No. Absolutely not. Your name is purple, therefore you suck. No. Absolutely not.

Dark, do me a favor and don't play backseat admin? Go do that somewhere else. If, by now, you haven't learned to ignore the trolls, just wow.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#16 Post by DarkNemesis »

Are you like trying to make everyone pissed off at you at once?

I only posted that becuase hes done the same.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#17 Post by Tehw00tz »

It's not like there was only a period in my post though.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#18 Post by CryptLord1234 »

DarkNemesis wrote:Are you like trying to make everyone pissed off at you at once?
No, I'm not. I've said that exact thing to you before. I don't need you to defend me, thanks, I can take care of myself.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#19 Post by DarkNemesis »

I wasn't defending you.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#20 Post by Reaper »

DarkNemesis wrote:I am not claiming Drayd is the worst or even one of the worst. I'm trying to refute you stupid myth that she is even close to the best, she isn't. Most of the time, shes a mediocre hero. A few times, she can be good and even great. But if your only decent most of the time, that says something. So does the damn creator admitting she needs a buff. Or did you miss that part? In my frequent LANs, which are more than equal with your twice-a-year Bnets, she is rarely picked. Very rarely. And actually, the last time she was, she was repeatedly raped by a good Neph. So sorry.
For one thing, I said she is the best creep hero. Not the best overall hero.

Another thing, yak was being sarcastic about her needing a buff. He explained this very clearly. You can't expect people to not make fun of you when you say something that indicates you clearly didn't read someone's post thorougly, especially darnyak. Even if you didn't catch the sarcasm, he said it was sarcastic two seperate times afterwards.

And finally, what heroes your friends pick in LAN games isn't really evidence of the makings of a good hero.
CryptLord1234 wrote:This hero would be dominated by any other hero because. . .? You definitely have a chance to leave. A higher than average move speed, combined with quickly switching to Splinting Stance and hitting your Ribcage Expansion? That'll reduce the damage you take, enough so to GTFO. Alternatively, you can put pressure on the opponent by switching to Shattering Stance, getting the enemy hurt a bit, then burst with Bone Strike and Osseus Spear. So, no, you won't get owned. Sorry.
Well, consider just for example rune knight for one second. He has rune shell. He has armor reducing attack and an aoe. He has a stun/nuke. He has mana drain, and a high damage aoe.

Consider your hero. He has a spell that deals 100 damage, a spell that lets him stop damage for a few seconds (letting him run away?), a basic nuke and two passives that help his other skills. I don't really picture him doing damage, or killing heroes, or killing bases. I picture him running into a group of guys, firing off a spear, getting rocked by another hero, then running away.
CryptLord1234 wrote:Passives don't do shit 'cause that's what they are -- PASSIVE. A bonus granted over time -- And do note this is not strictly a passive. Again, and you seem to have missed this, I said 'autocast' because at the time, I could not think of a passive/active setup like any other hero has. And you're acting like "IT'S PASSIVE, THEREFORE IT SUCKS." No. Absolutely not. Your name is purple, therefore you suck. No. Absolutely not.
See above. Also if it's passive, why does it autocast? Also why are all his stats low or medium? Are these relative to other heroes? How am I supposed to gauge this? Aside from this, the stats he gets from his 'passives' could be obtained on any hero from buying a knights armor and an orb of attack for the 800 or whatever gold that would cost. That doesn't seem very enticing.

What do you do about skill points? Do you spread them out so you have all level 3 skills while other heroes are firing off level 6 holy strikes or ice spires? Or do you pick from having a bonus of 5 damage and negative armor or no damage and a little armor?

If you don't want my thoughts on the build, don't post your ideas. Don't get so aggressive. When I post my hero ideas, feel free to give me honest opinions. Maybe if you posted how the skills would level, threw in variables instead of random numbers, and got rid of skills that just augment other skills, it would be easier to consider.

I'm glad you agree that my purple name is awesome.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#21 Post by CryptLord1234 »

About the me being aggressive, thing: Sorry, my bad. Had a long day, but that's no excuse to not be civil.

I guess what I wanted to get across with your post is that I want you to back it up with something other than "This hero sucks." I much rather prefer "This hero sucks and HERE'S WHY. . ." which I didn't really get until your last post. That way, I can look at it again and fix it.

As for the 2 passives, they could probably be combined into a single spell, which when clicked, toggles your stance, allowing for another spell that makes him better, I'll look at that. It was just an idea at the time. EDIT: They've been combined into "Marrowdance".

As for why his stats are all "low/medium", I figure the coefficient on the spells would be higher, so having any one "high" stat to start off with would make it a little not-so-great, although those can all be bumped up. They should, actually, now that I think about it, as a higher coefficient = making stacking of X stat far more effective. And yes, the "low, medium, high" values are relative to the other heroes. I figured he would have a similar stat line to the Infiltrator.

As for the last bit, I have changed a few things, please do go look again.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#22 Post by Reaper »

better
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#23 Post by CryptLord1234 »

. . .Although further suggestions would be nice; I'd like to improve it a bit more. Any particular spell seem weak in mechanics / usage? I can look these things over.

As it is, though, I think I addressed most of the problems you had with the hero.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#24 Post by Perhaps »

I'd suggest asking Yak specifically what he thinks, what he likes and doesn't like about it.
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Re: Skeletal Swordsmaster

#25 Post by DarkNemesis »

CryptLord1234 wrote:. . .Although further suggestions would be nice; I'd like to improve it a bit more. Any particular spell seem weak in mechanics / usage? I can look these things over.

As it is, though, I think I addressed most of the problems you had with the hero.
Well, you can't please everyone, Crypt, I'm not saying Reaper didn't have viable points. Lol, why do you think some are having a orgy over the Drayd while others (cough, me) think she is rather bland in comparison. Just my 2 cents. You still have my nod. Great concept. I would love to see this type of hero in EotA.
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