Hero idea. Looking for other opinions.

Submit hero or skill concepts for critiquing and potential implementation.
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DarkNemesis
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Hero idea. Looking for other opinions.

#1 Post by DarkNemesis »

I had a rather different concept for a hero idea and thought I'd post it to get some thoughts.

This is really vague and strange so bear with me here.

What if you had a hero who's spells cast were based not on cooldowns, but agility and strength. For instance, heavy strength would yield a powerful nuke, while an agi focus would ensure fast, but weak dmg. Something like incinerate. Weak but fast. This probably wouldn't apply to all of the abilities, whatever they might be, but I thought of the hero having your basic nuke dictated with either of the two stats, depending on what the player prefers and the situation.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Hero idea. Looking for other opinions.

#2 Post by Leek »

Eota already has spells with cast times being based on agi.

The concept isn't bad, but I wonder how it would balance out.

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Re: Hero idea. Looking for other opinions.

#3 Post by CryptLord1234 »

Well, it would help if you could flesh it out a little. Don't need to give specific stats or anything, but what would these spells be in terms of casting stronger + slower / faster / weaker? That could be grossly OP, grossly UP, or balanced, depending on what spells you plan on using.

Not a terrible idea, but I would need more before I could really judge it.
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Re: Hero idea. Looking for other opinions.

#4 Post by DarkNemesis »

Leek wrote:Eota already has spells with cast times being based on agi.

The concept isn't bad, but I wonder how it would balance out.
Huh, I don't know of any. Could you name them?

Yes, this obviously could become overpowered very easily, and would require careful construction to avoid that. I'll explain further.

Say you've got an AoE such as Holy Strike. Now HS is Evo and Int-based, and can become quite powerful stacking those to things. What I'm thinking here is to take the direct dmg focus off of the stats and instead place into casting speed. For instance.

You've got: Arian Stormrage

He's got an ability called...Energy Blast.

EB does a scalable based dmg like most other nukes. 100 at 1, 200 at 2, so on. But instead of direct applying Int or evo to make it hit harder, you instead place either strength or agility. So with +60 strength it would be hit for around 600, fairly normal. With Agility, it wouldn't receive a stat modifier (atleast not a big one) but instead increase the rate in which you can cast that ability.

So it would boil down to dealing say...900 dmg directly, every 21 sec or 300 every 7 sec. Resulting in around the same amount of dmg dealt, but at a different speed.

Thoughts?
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Re: Hero idea. Looking for other opinions.

#5 Post by Dekar »

Why dont you get increased dmg from str with agi stuff? You should explain the mechanics better.
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Re: Hero idea. Looking for other opinions.

#6 Post by DarkNemesis »

Dekar wrote:Why dont you get increased dmg from str with agi stuff? You should explain the mechanics better.
Actually, your somewhat right here. And I apologize for sounding fuzzy in my explanations.

Strength, you would get increased dmg, Agility, increased cast speed. Make sense?
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Re: Hero idea. Looking for other opinions.

#7 Post by Dekar »

Yes, its clearer now.

Well, there are 2 things in WC3 that dont really like to be variable. Cooldown and Mana Cost. Cooldown can be worked around but that involves replacing the whole skill with a dummy and that only works with fixed durations, too, unless you give up the cooldown display ( dark button turning lighter ).

Basically you just want 2 stats affecting a single skill, some skills are already made that way, e.g. Tyrants ultimate channel time is reduced by agi and Runeknights Hazard Slash goes longer with more agi.
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Re: Hero idea. Looking for other opinions.

#8 Post by Perhaps »

Well mana cost isn't a problem, you could remove mana cost, and run it through triggers, the formula could be displayed in the tooltip, and -s could show the calculated cost. There's a "starts casting event," that you could run a check to see if the unit has enough mana to cast it, if not issue a stop before the spell casts and display message to player middle bottomish of screen "Insufficient mana to cast that spell.", if enough let it run through the cast and for the event "finishes casting a spell" deduct the appropriate mana.

Cooldown is as Dekar says, but if I remember right, even that is problematic, since the ability won't return to its normal position. What I would do, similar to Dekar's method...
Pre-Add all the abilities for the player, disable player ability availability of all dummy abilities, and abilities they shouldn't start with. Make sure abilities that have variable cooldowns have no cooldown time. Pre-add the abilities in such an order.
Skill 1
Skill 1 (Dummy [if])
Skill 2
Skill 2 (Dummy [if])
Skill 3
Skill 3 (Dummy [if])
...
When a player puts into an ability for the first time, give availability to that skill for that player, deduct a level.
When ability finishes casting, it will take away availability, set availability to the dummy calculate based on whatever formula, set a timer to that calced duration, then of course remove availability of dummy, add availability of the actual skill. The beauty of using player availability, even though it takes it away, that ability will still be allowed to go through it's channeling sequence. As for a time display, I'd probably use a passive stacking stock type, and have it start in seconds for stock, removing a stock every second mark.

I can fully understand why Yak wouldn't want to use such methods, since it would make the interface feel, look, and handle ghetto as a standard. One ability doing a countdown until it "cools down," and visually has a different Insufficiency warning, while another its de-shading in a pie/circle fashion. In order for this to NOT be ghetto, it would require all abilities made out like the countdown version, which which mean a lot of changes for something that's not EotA to begin with.
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