Geyser

[randomd00d]

Hey, that is a really good idea New_Dawn!

Make geyser do damage, AND give a "Waterlogged" buff for 20 seconds. Anything that already has a waterlogged buff on it will take 1/2 damage and not get tossed perhaps. That seems reasonable and addresses the issues brought up.

[Reaper]

Don't doubt the fact that Geyser wipes pushes, it does. But can't you say the same for almost every other AoE in the game? HS will one shot way before Geyser will, along with Siphon Mana, Caustic Breath, Gale, Roots, Sleep, Blade rain, Choas rift, GR, Meteors, Hell's, and almost every other AoE, so saying Geyser hits too hard isn't really a valid argument. The real problem with Geyser is that the spawns are too dumb to realize the danger and keep running in to it so by the time Geyser is done its dished out 2k dmg and completely raped a push. Geyser does need a nerf, I'll admit, but saying its WAY too OP and nothing can stop it is simply not true (and yes, certain people have hinted those words).
--A_New_Dawn

Look you don't seem to understand this, it isn't a hint, this is fact. geyser can not be countered. Guess what? Almost every other ult in the game can be interrupted/cancelled/dispelled, and most really good aoes can be stopped before they can do much damage. With geyser, this is not the case. The fact that the ai is completely dominated by geyser is just a side bonus.

Hmmm, not sure what you mean about "narrow points". Granted, there are a few in SW and other maps but mainly the road are plenty wide and you can walk right past Geyser. I know, I know, spawns can't/don't, but I'm talking about hereos here, Geyser is not nearly as deadly to heroes as it is to spawns. Actually its more of a nuesence than a real danger.

So heres a thought for nerfing Geyser...

have first wave do normal dmg, then any wave after that is reduced to 1/2 of the dmg dealt. Also a slight duration reduction wouldn't hurt either,

--A_New_Dawn

I also sense a lack of your understanding of most people's complaints about geyser. No one is worried about their heroes being killed by it, they are worried about the uncounterable aoe dmg that abuses the ai and has a ridiculously low cooldown and high duration.

As for nerfing it, I would suggest lower duration, slightly longer cooldown, and less damage over time (which could be shown by less height when hit, which also would mean less time in the air)

[Dekar]

Uses of Geyser:
Geyser deals damage to units and buildings, acts as a disable, grants you ( and others! ) invulnerability against melee. Everything over a rather long time. It is unchanneled.

Little side effects:
Can instant kill units. Can remove heroes from combat by tossing them either over a cliff or even in a position where they are stuck. ( Once we had a merc stuck on the bottom moutain on Stormwail mid lane. )

Resulting effects:
Kills whole waves. Helps killing heroes. Prevents a new wave and mercenarys from spawning basically. Fire and forget siege spell. Boosted defense for your side.

No other skill is so versatile! -> It can do too many things too good.

//Building damage got nerfed already. Was multiple building kills per cast, far better than Sabotage(Ultimate).
-Killing waves. Propably better than Holystrike(Normal) as it can hit more units, but does not need to deal lethal damage to every unit. A bit worse than Grandrune(Ultimate).
-Makes half of the heroes useless. Better than Immolation(Normal) and the Manaburn Cloud(Ultimate), whatever aero's ultimate is called. Casted on heroes it should be about as strong as a Gale(Normal).
-Perfect Siege support. Due to predicatable spawn points and movement, new units get owned. Better than Icewall(Ultimate) if I think about it.

[DarnYak]

It causes lag because it attempts to recalculate the pathing for every single single "tick" of changing height. On a big map with alot of units arround, this can hurt a cpu pretty bad.

Doubt this pretty heavily. Flying height is purely graphical, has no effect on pathing. It does interact with the terrain to get the height (which is then added to the fly height to get the height the unit is at, graphicly), but that's required for every frame displayed anyway.

DarnYak

[aegir ravenking]

I am not disputing that many heros can wipe out pushes(hell I listed just about every UC/HE hero last post) late game. Gesyer can(and yes I have seen it) do it at level 15. Only the important side of kedge's landing found halls and candleburg's towers are the exepctions I have seen.

My only guess about why you don't think geyser is a serious problem is that you don't consider spawn control an important part of the game.

If that isn't the case, then please, let us know.

[randomd00d]

So... would it be an acceptable solution to make it such that geyser can only affect something one time?

(using the waterlogged debuff upon being hit, and if they already have it from a previous hit no effect occurs)


That would remove the juggling and immune to melee thing, but still keep the spell pretty powerful without losing its flavor, or overly nerfing its effectiveness.
This would ensure that at 15, it could damage many troops potentially, but can not actually kill any of them. Compared to the ascendants ultimate, it would be nonchanneled but do less overall damage.
At 25, it could kill some of the basic troops, or wounded meatshield basics.
At 35, it could kill all basic troops, but not the core-generated ones although heavily damaging them. But by 35, many heroes can deal large damage to troops so it is not so terrible.

[Ion]

I have refined what I want from Geyser, based on games played from now and previous.

This is, like seemingly nearly every other Ult in the game, some way of preventing Geyser from happening. Like most Ults, and I'm not going to list them, Geyser is pretty pissing when you let it run for the full whatever amount of seconds it is. That's true of all Ults. The point is to go out of your way to stop them or accept the concequences. The thing with Geyser is you can only accept the concequences and you can't stop it.

Just a way around stopping it would make Geyser alot more compatable with the game in general. There are only a few Ults that can not be stopped in any circumstance and more often then not they're not that lethal (take Soul Binder's rend for instance). It just makes it alot more fair when you can prevent Geyser from totally anhiliating your troops then just having to watch it sit there and pwn your units.

As a side note, the counter we (El, Dave and me) use against Geyser is mainly mass drakes. It works well but, that's also kinda boring.