Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

An Aeon of Strife map for Warcraft 3
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PostPosted: December 14th, 2013, 5:41 pm 
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This will be elaborated on a bit more in an upcoming post in the balance thread, but you don't need to know anything going on in that thread to respond to this.

So basically, I'm asking for people to reply to this post with their personal list of "fudge" factors on the various heroes and damage skills. For damage skills, I'm asking for a rough effectiveness of the skill outside of its raw damage. Taking AM for example, Infernal Binding I personally rate its effectiveness at 125% because of the ethereal damage bonus (which is being nerfed to 125% btw) as well as its slow/disable. Necrotic Shot I would rate at 200% since it heals at the full rate it drains, and has the healing reduction on top of it. Not all numbers are above 100%, for Pheonix Strike, I'd put it at 50% since there's a good chance to miss or have a spawn walk in the way.

Assume base damage is the maximum possible perfect hit, ie standing in Blade Rain for its full duration. Also presume the spell is being used against an enemy hero of average skill.

Heroes get their own fudge factor, but its rating the overall package. For instance, flyers I rate at 130% just for the flying bonus, TC/SB I rate at 70% just because their damage spells tend to overlap, and heals/shields I give a small bump for letting the hero survive longer then their natural health pool. Don't feel bad if you leave most heroes at 100%.

So here's the list:

Skills
Gale
Incinerate
Arctic Cataclysm
Caustic Breath
Holy Strike
Rockslide
Rogue Wave
Frost Spire
Terra Smash
Pestilence
Pyroclasm
Whirl
Shadowclap
Inferno
Pheonix Strike
Lightning Tether
Snowblast
Tempest
Siphon Glyph
Hazard Slash
Explosives
Blast Arrow
Neutralize
Blade Rain
Wilting
Slice
Hold Person
Chasten
Demoralizing Blow
Soulstrike
Echoing Strike
Degeneration
Smash
Grasping Tree
Ice Lance
Lunge
Smite
Maw of Death
Cinderfury
Rend Soul
Mortal Strike
Shatter
Dominant Blow (Str)
Dominant Blow (Agi)
Dominant Blow (Int)
Attack of Opportunity
Necrotic Shot
Infernal Binding
Swoop
Entangling Seed
Doom Hammer


Heroes:
Arcane Archer
Blazing Priest
Time Cleric
Arboreal Crusader
Dread Shaman
Scarab
Soul Binder
Glacial Tyrant
Acid Reaver
Divine Wizard
Colossus
Crest Witch
Icespinner
Ascendant
Defiler
Emberwraith
Forlorn Martyr
Blackguard
Fire Knight
Wretched Chef
Aeromancess
Mystic Swashbuckler
Elder Treant
Master of the Hunt
Behemoth
Incarnation
Sorrow Liege
High Oracle
Stormweaver
Rune Knight
Infiltrator
Tactician
Arcane Mistress
Grim Hag
Putrid Eidolon
Nephilim
Scarlet Maiden
Crimson Squall


Thanks for your feedback,

DarnYak


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PostPosted: December 14th, 2013, 6:00 pm 
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No number means 100%.

Skills
Gale 150%
Incinerate 115%
Arctic Cataclysm 110%
Caustic Breath
Holy Strike
Rockslide 90%
Rogue Wave 90%
Frost Spire 70%
Terra Smash 125%
Pestilence 90%
Pyroclasm 80%
Whirl 110%
Shadowclap
Inferno 60%
Pheonix Strike 80%
Lightning Tether
Snowblast 90%
Tempest
Siphon Glyph 50%
Hazard Slash 80%
Explosives
Blast Arrow
Neutralize 90%
Blade Rain 110%
Wilting 90%
Slice 85%
Hold Person 125%
Chasten 90%
Demoralizing Blow
Soulstrike 85%
Echoing Strike 125%
Degeneration 85%
Smash 130%
Grasping Tree 150%
Ice Lance
Lunge
Smite 120%
Maw of Death
Cinderfury 120%
Rend Soul
Mortal Strike
Shatter
Dominant Blow (Str)
Dominant Blow (Agi) 80%
Dominant Blow (Int) 110%
Attack of Opportunity 90%
Necrotic Shot 115%
Infernal Binding 135%
Swoop 125%
Entangling Seed 120%
Doom Hammer 110%

Heroes:
Arcane Archer 125%
Blazing Priest
Time Cleric 110%
Arboreal Crusader 125%
Dread Shaman 115%
Scarab 130%
Soul Binder 90%
Glacial Tyrant 130%
Acid Reaver UGH%
Divine Wizard 90%
Colossus 120%
Crest Witch 130%
Icespinner 115%
Ascendant UGH%
Defiler 115%
Emberwraith 120%
Forlorn Martyr 125%
Blackguard
Fire Knight
Wretched Chef
Aeromancess 120%
Mystic Swashbuckler 85%
Elder Treant 140%
Master of the Hunt 120%
Behemoth 125%
Incarnation 90%
Sorrow Liege
High Oracle 80%
Stormweaver
Rune Knight 90%
Infiltrator 90%
Tactician 90%
Arcane Mistress 110%
Grim Hag
Putrid Eidolon 115%
Nephilim 110%
Scarlet Maiden 70%
Crimson Squall

UGH% is something I'd rather not deal with, like 175%.


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PostPosted: December 14th, 2013, 6:47 pm 
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Despite how uncomfortable I am with cramming balance into such a small amount of numbers, here we go:

Skills:
Gale 120%
Incinerate 90%
Arctic Cataclysm
Caustic Breath 90%
Holy Strike
Rockslide
Rogue Wave 130%
Frost Spire
Terra Smash 85%
Pestilence 85%
Pyroclasm 90%
Whirl 90%
Shadowclap 115%
Inferno 80%
Pheonix Strike 80%
Lightning Tether 90%
Snowblast 90%
Tempest
Siphon Glyph 85%
Hazard Slash 85%
Explosives 80%
Blast Arrow 110%
Neutralize 110%
Blade Rain 115%
Wilting 90%
Slice 80%
Hold Person 120%
Chasten 120%
Demoralizing Blow 120%
Soulstrike 80%
Echoing Strike 120%
Degeneration 80%
Smash 120%
Grasping Tree 120%
Ice Lance
Lunge 105%
Smite 115%
Maw of Death 120%
Cinderfury 120%
Rend Soul 105%
Mortal Strike 120%
Shatter 120%
Dominant Blow (Str) 115%
Dominant Blow (Agi) 110%
Dominant Blow (Int) 115%
Attack of Opportunity 70%
Necrotic Shot 120%
Infernal Binding 166%
Swoop 120%
Entangling Seed 120%
Doom Hammer 130%


Heroes:
Arcane Archer 115%
Blazing Priest 125%
Time Cleric 115%
Arboreal Crusader 120%
Dread Shaman 110%
Scarab 125%
Soul Binder 110%
Glacial Tyrant 120%
Acid Reaver 120%
Divine Wizard 110%
Colossus 115%
Crest Witch 110%
Icespinner 115%
Ascendant 125%
Defiler 110%
Emberwraith 120%
Forlorn Martyr 110%
Blackguard 120%
Fire Knight 110%
Wretched Chef 115%
Aeromancess 110%
Mystic Swashbuckler 110%
Elder Treant 125%
Master of the Hunt 115%
Behemoth 120%
Incarnation 110%
Sorrow Liege 130%
High Oracle 115%
Stormweaver 110%
Rune Knight 120%
Infiltrator 110%
Tactician 110%
Arcane Mistress 105%
Grim Hag 110%
Putrid Eidolon 120%
Nephilim 115%
Scarlet Maiden 105%
Crimson Squall 110%


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PostPosted: December 14th, 2013, 7:28 pm 
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Skills:
Gale 120%
Incinerate 90%
Arctic Cataclysm 100%
Caustic Breath 115%
Holy Strike 90%
Rockslide 100%
Rogue Wave 115%
Frost Spire 110%
Terra Smash 110%
Pestilence 90-95%
Pyroclasm 110%
Whirl 90%
Shadowclap 100%
Inferno 100%
Pheonix Strike 95%
Lightning Tether 85%
Snowblast 95%
Tempest 120% (because talents)
Siphon Glyph 95%
Hazard Slash 90%
Explosives 90%
Blast Arrow 90%
Neutralize 100%
Blade Rain 110%
Wilting 100%
Slice 90%
Hold Person 100%
Chasten 95%
Demoralizing Blow 90%
Soulstrike 0%
Echoing Strike (I haven't used it enough to judge)
Degeneration 100%
Smash (Can't tell haven't used Colossus since the nerf)
Grasping Tree 100%
Ice Lance 100%
Lunge 115%
Smite 110%
Maw of Death 115%
Cinderfury 105%
Rend Soul 90%
Mortal Strike 100%
Shatter 80%
Dominant Blow (Str) (Crimson squall ugh)
Dominant Blow (Agi) (Crimson squall ugh)
Dominant Blow (Int) (Crimson squall ugh)
Attack of Opportunity 90%
Necrotic Shot 95%
Infernal Binding 110%
Swoop 120%
Entangling Seed 105%
Doom Hammer 100%

Anything above 100% it's because the skill has more utility/easetouse/dps/lessCD/moreCC/lessmanacost/"w/e" than a normal AOE/Nuke equivalent simple version.

I won't even try on heroes, I mean trying to tell if one hero is better than another on EotA it's pretty wrong, IMO, because this game isn't about hero against hero, it's about hero compositions.


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PostPosted: December 15th, 2013, 1:44 pm 
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I'm not going to criticize people's numbers, but its clear I did at least a partially bad job explaining things.

Quote:
Blade Rain 110%
Blade Rain 115%
Blade Rain 110%

First, I intended it to be based off a 100% perfect hit. Blade rain is pure damage (unless you're including talents, which idk how much people are weighting them), therefore this number should probably be weighted downward for people moving out of the rain and taking partial damage only.

Quote:
Pyroclasm 115%
Pyroclasm 90%
Pyroclasm 110%

Similar here. The damage is flat with no side effects, so the only question is the frequency of successfully hitting an enemy hero. Which is the second mistake, I didn't clarify this was intended for hero vs hero.

DarnYak


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PostPosted: December 15th, 2013, 2:46 pm 
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I would still argue that Blade Rain is pretty annoying since it lasts quite a while, hard to avoid the first cast, and is a hindrance enough for making people try to move around wc3's horrid pathing.

I'll need to edit my numbers though since I was thinking of the spells overall.
EDIT: Edited.


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PostPosted: December 24th, 2013, 12:23 pm 
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Should I take talents into consideration? I think it would be easier for me to rate heroes based on how overpowered I think they are.


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