Hero Remarks

Raise concerns about balance.

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watermelon
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Hero Remarks

#1 Post by watermelon »

Since Yak should no longer be introducing any changes that substantially affect how heroes play, I've decided to give some remarks on all the heroes in EotA. (That and so I could have another thread devoted to my rambling, though anyone should feel free to post their own remarks.)
3/8/14: So much for that. This isn't up to date with 1.16.

I've categorized heroes and listed those categories from most preferred to least. Inside a category, I organized heroes based on how they compare to other heroes in same category, with more preferred heroes being mentioned earlier.
Note that I would prefer higher ranked heroes in a lower category than heroes ranked lower in a higher category. Ex: Inf and AM over AA and Eido, Fire Panda over Murloc.

Changelog
7/18/13
  • Offensive Casters - swapped IS and DW
  • More comments to BP and some others.
7/14/13
  • Added Storm.
  • Moved Gravel and Reek to siege.
  • Moved Gluttony to Support.
  • Refined some of the comments, mostly those that were in the Fatty section.

Mixed Caster
Heroes that can perform Support + AoE reliably with some capable of PKing or sieging
  • AC: Gale is probably the best AoE: comes out relatively fast, interrupts and knockback, and damages buildings. Geomancy gives a lot of tools for AC to use; the movement and the Stoneskin are most notable. One point in weed for annoyance. Heal is okay but more of a one point wonder now and emergency use. Ult can be annoying though it's relatively easy to avoid.
  • Defiler: Has the best single-target heal that can be used frequently. Pestilence is nice AoE though it can't be boosted by evocation and is somewhat lacking without talent investment. Blight can be a great sieging tool, but I mostly use it for the talent which allows infinite mana. Ult can stop most pushes. Exhaustion is meh and the only "interrupt" Defiler has.
  • Aero: Squishy but hard to take advantage of her frailty when she's blessed with great skills. Innate allows for infinite mana. Tempest is great AoE and can become OP with talents. Hold Person assists in PKing. Soar is great as a one point for avoiding traps and becomes ridiculous at level 6 for making Aero a flying hero. New Maelstrom is awesome as a one point and helps Aero PK much more easily. Ult is basically "GTFO Cloud" to enemies.
  • AA: Great innate for map hack. Meteor Swarm is great for the same reasons as Gale, though it's not as good due to semi-channeling and costing more mana. Familiar greatly helps AA though can be a liability if AA is facing AoE heroes. Ethereal Heal is still a good one point heal. Mass Haste is a good support skill. Ult is nice to slow down creep reinforcements
  • Eido: Has the best shield due to healing. Innate can be used as portable fountains. Can turn to AoE for Wilting or support with Spore Cloud. Seed allows him to assist in PK or just be an annoyance though it doesn't scale that well in terms of mana cost. Ult can take down towers if left unchecked.
PKer
Heroes that exist for the sole sake of making the other team ragequit by killing their heroes every time they appear
  • FM: Weak until Streak is obtained after which he can PK much better. Whirl can be used to clear lanes somewhat and can add damage to help PK. Ion surge deals loads of damage (with the bug of dealing double) unless dispelled, likewise with Spire. Thunderstrike is a good silence and can help in sieging. Streak is very abusive once leveled. Ranked higher than other PKers due to how much he can scale with Agi investment, meaning that he's almost always relevant.
  • Harpy: A flying squishy Inf though items can fix that. Swoop works best on larger maps like Storm for mapwide damage and allow her to initiate kills. Blade Rain pretty much stops pushes along with raping heroes after Swoop. Killing Fields is mostly useful due to passive though active can distract creeps. Ult is mostly useful for sieging; combined with her flying mobility, she can easily do siege and runs on bases. Meteors is unwieldy and slow to use.
  • Inf: PKs best early to mid game, more siege oriented with mines and Smoke Cloud late game. Great mobility that's only outclassed by Harpy and FM. Excels at killing off squishies as she doesn't follow up too well against enemies that can last longer without resorting to items and auto attacking. AoO seems limited by its conditions but can be a very strong single target nuke. Mines allows her to stop pushes. Blink is mostly useful as a one point teleportation skill for chasing targets or getting out of bad situations. Ult allows her to get more on the sieging fun.
  • Swash: Not my favorite PKer but he's great at fulfilling his job and pretty much only that. Later can easily kill buildings with innate, generally fares well against all heroes. Nuke can be very strong and nicely comboes with ethereal. Dash is the most noticeable for giving great mobility. Crit buff allows auto attack to be scary. Stun is mostly useful as an interrupt and the item. Ult is great for the disable on heroes and making creeps useless.
  • CS: Probably the bulkiest PKer and can be very self sufficient. He's basically a sturdier form of Swash. I generally favor him over Swash though he's not that effective against flying heroes as he can only rely on auto attack. Benefits greatly from stat bonuses though that can mess with what stat he changes to. All versions of Dominating Blow are useful with Str the best for PKing nuke. Overwhelm can be overwhelming, particularly the silence and armor debuff. Surge is great as Int and Str, but Agi is rather lacking. Crash (Str) is best for the interrupt followed by Crash (Agi) for damage. Ult is nice for getting free gold on a fleeing enemy hero, but it can be annoying for allowing units to get stuck.
  • Neph: Would be higher if he didn't suck a lot in the beginning and not have occasional buggy skill cycles. Has great dependence on items to do well. False Alliance is a troll skill. Blood is a must for self sufficiency. Shadow or War is next in priority for damage. Fire has nice utility, but doesn't offer much for PKing when damage output is needed. Neph doesn't really do well if he can't take down an enemy quickly enough by spamming his skills. Adrenaline and Evasion can be handy in taking down towers. Ult is really only great for Execute (PK) and Fireballs (Siege), though the heal can come in handy at times; the other two are situational with Betrayal only being worthwhile on AI heroes.
  • Fenny: Shouldn't be this low but he is countered harder by heals than the other PKers (Oracle comes to mind as her innate can also dispel his howl and reveal the stalkers among her team). If the opposing team doesn't prepare anything against him, he can PK more easily. Nuke is great with stun talent. Hamstring is a strong slow though it can easily be dispelled by a heal. Howl is nice, mostly for the buff given to him. Dream Run offers great mobility with not much investment though Fenny should capitalize on damage output more. Ult can make Fenny very strong, though he can still struggle against a large creep wave with it.
Offensive Caster
Squishy heroes that are best at pushing, usually due to devastating the opposing creep waves
  • IS: Rather frail but blessed with wonderful damage output and superb innate for webs, webs, and more webs. Can still be easily checked with dispels though. Ice Lance and revenant is incredible damage output if not dispelled. Glaciate helps dispel stuff and maybe confuse human players when running away. Brain Freeze for one point wonder in interrupt. Ult wrecks bases and defenstrates the idea of tower defense.
  • AM: Only significant problem is huge mana costs. Immobilizing ethereal is great against heroes. Haunt and passive damage bonus can function to siege. New Mind Cloud isn't as great as old cloud as a one point though it can still be a hindrance. Ult can shut down an enemy push or assist in PKing.
  • DW: The role model of an AoE hero. Collaborates well with teammates using innate. Can be mana sufficient with little reliance on items. Both nukes allow him to take down enemy pushes. Stun Rune is one point wonder and helps with PK. Empower is okay but can't compare with Rune. Ult allows him to take advantage of being squishy, though he will most likely get killed if against more than one hero.
  • Storm: Generally strong spells and squishy on the side. Innate provides a good means of escape or getting around. Lightning Tether can get extremely annoying. Snowblast adds to damage output along with giving her a slow. Heal rain is not that effective. Twister can be good on a surrounded enemy hero but it's mostly situational. Ult can be used to kill heroes with low health with remaining strikes being used on buildings/gold miners.
  • Murloc: Don't really like her that much since she just plays as a spammy hero; there's little skill involved in using her. Innate is only for her murlocs. Rogue Wave is mostly useful for creating the spawns. Heal fountain is more significant for the spawns than the heal. Rampage helps her swarm enemy bases. Best early game when the enemy doesn't have good AoE to counter murlocs and then falls out of favor. Can't really do much against heroes, especially flyers. Ult can be very useful against heroes if paired with an ally and decimates spawns.
  • Lich: Mostly held back by its slow move speed in terms of being threatening. Innate allows it to be a self-sufficient offensive caster with a nice buff in Remorseless which scales very well. Nuke is very good at single target but isn't too reliable for AoE as the innate isn't spammy enough to keep using it. Hold is somewhat nice but doesn't scale that well. Altar is good even as a one point, but countered easily by ranged heroes. Ult is mostly wonderful for its sound effect; it unfortunately gets countered easily by AoE.
Siege
Heroes that excel at leaving enemy bases in ruins
  • BP: Has nice support with healing fire. Active innate can harass enemy heroes and does more damage than nuke if the target is held; rather useless on allies. Hammer is good if BP wants to whale on other heroes with a ridiculous overwrite on Brain Freeze. Passive Innate, skeletons, and ult wrecks buildings. Buff is nice for caster allies but can get overridden.
  • Fire Panda: An unconventional siege hero with low mana cost skills. Fun to use, but it's hard to measure his effectiveness. Innate is great mostly for crit while the heal can help survivability somewhat. Flashfire allows for great mobility in hit and runs. Great nuke against buildings though not easy to use against heroes. Invul to guard against damage and take down buildings even faster though that would require him to skimp on Armor. Ult is not that useful since smart players will counter by spamming spells.
  • Ember: Solid hero overall and appreciates evocation bonuses. Waving arms in air for healing + damage bonus combined with molasses spray can hurt. Erupt can somewhat help with running away though he could still die in the process and isn't worth more than one point. Pyroclasm is great for slaughtering creeps. Ult wrecks buildings but gets easily countered by silences.
  • Gravel: Big rock giant with nice AoE + talents that also helps in sieging. War Club can wear down enemy heroes. Rockslide and Smash give him a large damage output. I've only used Enrage for the mana talent and then just spam it to have an endless supply of mana. Heart is good support skill and can help heal Gravel with the talent. Ult is good as one point for taking down main buildings.
  • Tact: Her primary strength is being an auto attacker. Blast Arrow is not a strong damaging AoE but has utility in its throw and debuff. Stealth can allow ambush auto attacking or surviving another day for more auto attacking. Net to stop target and allow more auto attacking with some damage in the process. Banner and Ult both help her auto attack buildings into oblivion. Innate is rather situational, and I can only think of it being really useful to make creeps take down Ob towers, particularly top or bottom.
  • Reek: Maw is great AoE and great for vomit. Maw spit can be used to damage buildings more reliably than his ult.
    Brainlust is a good buff for taking down bases when enemy creeps are gone. Anchor is a good hero snare and is generally hard to escape from. Miasma flies are annoying for being uncounterable. Ult isn't that great though it can be used to trap heroes.
  • SB: Rather weak in the beginning, but can scale ridiculously late game with Incinerate and Decoy. Incinerate can trap slower enemies by having SB move to the front and always knocking them back. Can be somewhat self sufficient with Mend and innate. A bit boring since he's just spamming Incinerate to kill things. Soul Strike requires support or the stun talent in order to be strong. Ult is okay and just adds to the overall damage output.
Support
Heroes that focus on assisting allies more than maintaining an offensive presence
  • DS: I mostly end up using innate for the effect of Fire and Dispel Totem. Mass healing is great for both creeps and heroes. Great at making other heroes move like slow fatties with Expunge + Slow Totem. Flame totem can serve as AoE though it has undesirably long cooldown. Later level totems are annoying to kill without repeated use of dispels. Doll can help DS PK though he should be focusing more on support with totem or healing. Ult is lulzy but can be very annoying when it affects allied heroes.
  • Scarab: Has a good selection of skills but can be countered easily if the other team plays smartly. Innate is strong but easily countered by ranged heroes. Nice healing wave, though hard to aim. Penance provides nice crowd control and some form of AoE but can be countered by dispels. Smite is a great damaging nuke, especially with ethereal, though it can only be used against heroes and is somewhat short ranged. Bulwark should be more interesting but I generally favor his other skills. Ult isn't as noteworthy as the old one but basically makes it harder to kill Scarabb.
  • Gluttony: Annoying to fight against as melee since Feast and Innate are hard to target. Innate can make enemy pushes useless if no enemy hero is present to counter it. Exhaustion spin-off is a good one point and will almost always stun the enemy if it moves. Fire breathing creeps can easily wipe out opposing waves. Slice can be strong but it's not that easy to use on heroes, later levels and talent can help clear creeps. Ult pretty much reverses enemy pushes and isn't always easy to counter.
  • TC: Innate is a strong disable on enemy heroes and can be useful in saving allied heroes. Ebb and Flow is good slow and haste. Heal is okay but pretty expensive to use. Echo Strike helps PK though Degen is also capable of doing more damage. I get distracted too much by micromanaging her Forks but it seems to be a strong skill if managed well. Fork is probably better on larger maps though they're still pretty easy to PK.
  • Oracle: Feels rather passive for two channeling skills. Not difficult to play and doesn't rely on items to do well unless you want to abuse Mindstab. She can shut down other heroes with her innate, heal, and Mindstab. Purge Malice can be a good creep crowd control but doesn't offer that much. Her heal is probably the best when allies are not pressured. Ult used to be more awesome when she could do other stuff with it occurring though at least it damages magic immune units.
  • RK: Innate is good support skill though I mostly end up using it as a reactive skill whereas it would be better used as a proactive skill (which is hard to do in itself). Can make other heroes into fatties with his shield though that's mostly outclassed by Eido. Mana drain rune isn't that useful for AoE as hazard slash can be. Catapult rune is pretty much broken on big maps and can shut down pushes. Ult is his only "reliable" offense in stopping pushes or damaging bases in that he can still be interrupted.
Fatty aka Tank
Heroes that can fulfill any of the other roles mentioned but have the common characteristics of being hard to kill and moving like molasses (no, they are not judged on their model)
  • Garg: Tops the list due to being a flying fatass with very annoying crowd control. Innate can assit in pking along with thwarting enemy hero kill attempts. Stomp for damage and a rather strong slow. Ravenous Dive can interrupt enemy heroes along with placing them in an awkward position. Petrify can get broken when you have other ally heroes helping you deal petrify damage. Abberate is okay as a support skill though I generally favor the other skills. Ult to kill more stuff.
  • Bane: Hard to take down and to escape from thanks to 3 stuns, one of which can function as movement. Would top Garg if he could also fly. Only has a self heal from innate once talented but he'll likely get hero kills. Large damage output against units comes from Breath and Acid Sheath. Ult pretty much decimates bases if it doesn't get countered.
  • Tree: Feel that he has somewhat broken survivability. Tree curse makes towers useless with the long duration. Grasping Tree can be used to assist in pking as Tree doesn't have much damage output by himself. Tree passives are mainly useful for the fairies though eating corpses and mana restoration can boost his self-sufficiency. Taunting Tree is a good creep distraction. Revival Tree can be useful in sieging or defense and is nice for giving 100% mana back upon revival.
  • Tyrant: Innate is fun to use and can put enemy heroes into awkward position, though it's not that easy. Good damaging ice shield. His nuke is great for its slow though boosting its damage is hard thanks to its split between Physical and Evocation. Shatter can be good as a one point as it generally does more damage than his melee attack. Has an okay interrupt, but smart players will generally avoid it. Ult takes a very long time to channel though it's devastating.
  • Dwarf: Innate creates nice meat shield that usually aggroes creeps. He can try to be a PKer though his nuke is generally more useful for its stun and debuff. AoE damage tickles spawns but can increase his damage output against heroes when combined with his nuke. One point wonders for escaping and healing which allow him to tank hits. Ult is boring but works.
  • Rue: Hard to be killed is his most defining trait, though he doesn't have an easy time killing other heroes. Mortal Strike can do a lot of damage to casters though other heroes generally shrug it off. Seems to be more of a supportive tank with broken auras. Tact's innate. Fear is one point. Guards are the reason he can get tanky. Ult is bleah though I guess it could save him gold for making a Command Tower because he won't be getting any.
Last edited by watermelon on May 14th, 2013, 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Executor
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Re: Hero Remarks

#2 Post by Executor »

What do think about a category for heroes that can farm gold through killing units? I think Harpy can fall into that category along with others such as offensive casters. The gold can always be traded with allies or be used to buy mercenaries, heroes, outposts, towers, repairs, etc.

watermelon
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Re: Hero Remarks

#3 Post by watermelon »

It would be easier to list heroes that don't have a reliable or unwieldy way of farming units, not including ults.
Swash, Neph, Fenny, AM, Lich, BP, Tact, DS (totem has great damage but long cooldown), Scarab (takes time and can be dispelled), TC, RK, Oracle, Tree, Dwarf, and Rue.

All heroes outside of PKing should be using at least some of their gold to help the team since not many have a huge reliance on items.

Most heroes are a mix of roles so I mostly ended up categorizing them based on what role I felt suits them best. (The Mixed Casters and Tank role are prime examples of this since those heroes are capable of doing other stuff)

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Re: Hero Remarks

#4 Post by Executor »

I think Reek can be really good for siege using Maw of Death against buildings and stacking miasma on corpses.

watermelon
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Re: Hero Remarks

#5 Post by watermelon »

Updated with some other changes.
I was lazy when doing the Fatty section, though it should be more descriptive now.

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