Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

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PostPosted: August 23rd, 2011, 2:59 pm 
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Bane:
- Dragonfear: Not terrible but probably not what it should be, primarily an unreliable interrupt
- Caustic Breath: Strong
- Encouragement: Stronger than Mass Haste but shorter duration, but it also can heal. However, I'm not sure if it's enough of a heal, and the skill overall doesn't seem that popular, so I'm not sure what to say about this skill
- Acid Sheath: Can do decent damage and nerfs spawns fairly hard after the initial hit, but doesn't seem that popular. Mana cost might be too high
- Charge: Fairly shitty. Range is too low (or maybe just is at low levels), stun is good but bane often gets trapped behind enemy lines. Plus bane isn't as strong in the melee field as intended. People have wanted it to be point targetable for a while but at that point this is practicly Dash. I'm planning on adding a knockback effect to the charge so that he clears a path through spawns.
- Storm of Malice: Not instant damage but solid damage if uninterrupted, espeicaly when the armor reduction is factored in

Scarab:
- Celestial Restoration: Helpful
- Smite: This was always intended to be a nuke primarily focused on dropping high health heroes..but it never really worked out well. Currently I suspect damage might be a little low and mana cost too high, but not too far out of line regardless
- Life Wave: Good AoE heal, also a nuke with talents
- Nightmare: Strong AoE spell, sadly this is acutaly a placeholder that never got replaced
- Armored Carapace: Strong defense, but needs upgrading to have an active
- Apotheosis: Strong

Gravel:
- War Club: Strong ability, but kind of shitty since it's one of those things you generally always want up, makes me feel it should just be built in and give him a new inniate
- Rockslide: Great
- Heart of the Mountain: Strong buff, not so fun
- Earthquake: Great...for lagging everyone. This spell has to go for that reason alone, plus it sucks
- Crumble: Pretty harsh debuff when combined with grav's high melee damage, but it's boring as fuck. And it's sort of just the negative of HotM. Want to replace
- Rockslide: No scaling but it looks too awesome. A bit absurd against buildings, but overall strong

Treant:
- Eat Tree: Should be given scaling
- Grasping Tree: Great
- Taunting Tree: Considering all the bitching in a recent game I know at least some people think its OP, I'm as of yet undecided
- Reviving Tree: Kind of amazing in theory, not so much in practice. Would like to revamp, possibly making it his Ult
- Dispelling Tree: Dispels gotta go
- Pixie Tree: Animation is screwed up (I can't help it), no scaling, not that interesting, does decent damage though

Dryad:
- Sentinel: Very useful
- Gale: Always feels a little too weak to me, but never bad
- Tangleweed: Good but no scaling
- Cure Wounds: Great
- Reverse Magic: Dispels gotta go
- Mana Surge: Mixed feelings, it certainly can do great damage but kind of hard or rare to pull off, and attenative enemies can avoid it completely

Dread Shaman:
- Extra Attack: Good, but passive
- Mass Regeneration: Great
- Totems: Good, but I think some of them need ranged casting placement so effective use doesn't require him to walk behind enemy lines or similar stupid shit. Health might also be a little too high. Earthbind is kind of insane.
- Expunge: Not just a dispel, also a legacy spell that's been on my replace list forever. Strong, but needs to go. Oddly would be more usable if I could make it not automatically dispel everything
- Shared Pain: A mess, does too much damage, but it's also on the wrong hero (a ranged unit who can self heal). I've wanted to move this to a new hero for a long time, the question is where
- Ancestial Fury: This feels too much like a utility spell and not an ultimate. Might be a great inniate.

Arcane Mistress:
- Aura of Undeath: Not bad but not amazing. Passive is the problem
- Infernal Binding: Strong
- Mind Fog: Strong...worse Candle/Kedge. Kind of annoying but not the type of annoying that I feel is necessary to remove because it can be managed. Cooldown and/or duration probably a bit too high
- Haunt: Amazing vs structures, but has no use otherwise (and is probably disfavored as a result). Considering toning down its effectiveness in exchange for giving it some sort of effect against non-structures as well
- Black Arrow: Almost a passive but not quite. I do wonder if it needs some sort of buff though
- Wail: Great

Master of the Hunt:
- Search: Useful but at the same time it's not Sentinel or Sentry Owls, so it feels lacking in comparision
- Lunge: Strong, but I'm thinking of making it spawn targetable for an auto kill or triple damage. I also want to give it a small "leap" range
- Hamstring: Slow's always good, crit is alwyas good, yet I have the impression this spell is disfavored
- Dire Howl: Chance to miss, life steal, and increased melee damage... but doesn't seem enough
- Dream Run: Very very useful
- Wolf Pack: I like the concept, hate the skill, gonna revamp it somehow - possibly give him temporary familiars but I'm undecided

Icespinner:
- Create Web: Great
- Ice Lance: Great
- Frost Spire: Great
- Chill Sacrifice: Talent makes it interesting, but baseline it's in the same probelm area as Mana Rush, offering little by itself. Not sure what I want to do with it
- Brain Freeze: Should be fairly decent, pretty annoying to fight against, but I'm not sure how popular it is
- Blizzard: Not bad, just outdated. I think I'll revamp this with the same fundimental spell, but with a bit more added in

Harpy: I can't play this hero for shit so I'm practicly guessing here
- Raptor: Evade is useful, life steal attack can help her recover general damage from spawns being annoying bitches, could probably be improved a bit more
- Swoop: Decent, but overnerfed? I have no idea
- Blade Rain: Terrible graphic, tends to get her killed isnce its short range, it can do decent damage but i'm not sure anyone takes it
- Blind: Insane miss rate, but does anyone take it? Another possibly good but boring spell that could use additions
- Backlash: Seems after a long streak of it being overpowered its happily in a acceptable spot now
- Chaos Rift: Great

DarnYak


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PostPosted: August 23rd, 2011, 8:08 pm 
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I've really only played in single-player with AI so you should probably take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

Bane
- Encouragement: Heal doesn't seem too useful as you'd normally want to target a creep with low life. The AoE seems a bit low compared to other creep boosting abilities (Mass Haste comes to mind). I think it would be easier if the buff AoE came from Bane himself than the killed creep.
- Charge: Agreed with Knockback effect. I also think his talent should be included with the ability.

Scarab
- Celestial Restoration: I've always felt that the mana cost was high. Perhaps shorten the duration and make it heal more?
- Lifewave: I feel the nuke is weak but I never put too many levels in this ability. Heal is great.
- Armored Carapace: Definitely needs an active.

Treant:
- Eat Tree: Pretty sure it does have scaling with talents already.

Dryad:
- Mana Surge: Change it somehow since it can be entirely avoided.

Dread Shaman:
- Totems: Definitely agreed with longer cast range.
- Ancestral Fury: It's more of a buff that boosts his other abilities.

Arcane Mistress:
- Aura of Undeath: Would be nice if her Skeletons could be improved in other ways rather than duration (which is pretty weak considering that they're already pretty weak).
- Haunt: Would like to see another effect for non-structures. It probably shouldn't be incapacitating due to her already having Infernal Binding.
- Black Arrow: Have some kind of combo with Infernal Binding? I like it as is though.

Master of the Hunt:
- Search: Maybe make it a small passive that allows it to see things very close to him (like 200) and the active one see a bigger area. The ability is really only useful when you know there's something invisible but that defeats some of the purpose of this ability.
- Dire Howl: I always thought it was annoying enough because of its duration.

Icespinner:
- Brain Freeze: I generally only get one level to have an interrupt.

Harpy:
- Raptor: I think the evasion is a good compromise with her rather low life. Unfortunately, evasion doesn't help her when she gets nuked.
- Swoop: Sucks at lower levels since she moves rather slow and the damage is minimal compared to the effort.
- Blind: Never really take it when I use her and always end up forgetting about it if I do. I'd rather level Blade Rain to kill the spawns.


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PostPosted: August 23rd, 2011, 8:27 pm 
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DarnYak wrote:
Bane:
- Dragonfear: Not terrible but probably not what it should be, primarily an unreliable interrupt It isn't that reliable.
- Caustic Breath: Strong
- Encouragement: Stronger than Mass Haste but shorter duration, but it also can heal. However, I'm not sure if it's enough of a heal, and the skill overall doesn't seem that popular, so I'm not sure what to say about this skill. Mass Haste can be cast at any time, you need a unit for this one. That's the difference.
- Acid Sheath: Can do decent damage and nerfs spawns fairly hard after the initial hit, but doesn't seem that popular. Mana cost might be too high Pretty good.
- Charge: Fairly shitty. Range is too low (or maybe just is at low levels), stun is good but bane often gets trapped behind enemy lines. Plus bane isn't as strong in the melee field as intended. People have wanted it to be point targetable for a while but at that point this is practicly Dash. I'm planning on adding a knockback effect to the charge so that he clears a path through spawns. It's more his fatness than anything. With the right team it can be very useful, but more often than not it just sticks Bane in the middle of a bunch of creeps vs. some ranged hero with interrupts who can make his life hell.
- Storm of Malice: Not instant damage but solid damage if uninterrupted, espeicaly when the armor reduction is factored in

Scarab:
- Celestial Restoration: Helpful So helpful.
- Smite: This was always intended to be a nuke primarily focused on dropping high health heroes..but it never really worked out well. Currently I suspect damage might be a little low and mana cost too high, but not too far out of line regardless No it basically does that. First Smite when Scarab walks in hurts, you just don't notice it if (a) you're a tank or (b) you're laning alone. Great skill.
- Life Wave: Good AoE heal, also a nuke with talents Awesome and frustrating to play against when paired with Dryad.
- Nightmare: Strong AoE spell, sadly this is acutaly a placeholder that never got replaced Has a cool combo though.
- Armored Carapace: Strong defense, but needs upgrading to have an active It makes him a super tank.
- Apotheosis: Strong

Gravel:
- War Club: Strong ability, but kind of shitty since it's one of those things you generally always want up, makes me feel it should just be built in and give him a new innate. What else would it be? It's a pretty strong ability and gets him to constantly be around trees, which is interesting.
- Rockslide: Great
- Heart of the Mountain: Strong buff, not so fun It isn't fun but it has its uses.
- Earthquake: Great...for lagging everyone. This spell has to go for that reason alone, plus it sucks It's so fucking annoying when spammed though. Lag is the biggest issue. If you had to, give him a nerfed War Club (give the bonuses as talents) as his new normal ability and add another.
- Crumble: Pretty harsh debuff when combined with grav's high melee damage, but it's boring as fuck. And it's sort of just the negative of HotM. Want to replace Yeah kind of dumb. It works; it and HoTM are great but they're both dispellable at the same time and it basically just doubles HotM's effects. Add them together imo. (maybe scale it down a tad bit) and give him a new spell. Please make it Punt.
- Rockslide: No scaling but it looks too awesome. A bit absurd against buildings, but overall strong. It kicks ass.

Treant:
- Eat Tree: Should be given scaling
- Grasping Tree: Great So annoying, but good.
- Taunting Tree: Considering all the bitching in a recent game I know at least some people think its OP, I'm as of yet undecided It's OP because it never dies. Give it a duration, like 40-60s, or have it lose life over time (like decay; with talents to increase the regen). The main point of frustration comes fro the fact that 3-4 will be put down on a lane, spamming Taunt but being hard to kill, and pushes are basically nullified because creeps get trapped behind trying to attack them all. And they can't even kill them all since they're so tuff it just gets worse and worse as time goes on.
- Reviving Tree: Kind of amazing in theory, not so much in practice. Would like to revamp, possibly making it his Ult It's not that great.
- Dispelling Tree: Dispels gotta go Yeah.
- Pixie Tree: Animation is screwed up (I can't help it), no scaling, not that interesting, does decent damage though Replace with Reviving tree, give him a new ult. Useful, interesting but not as powerful as other ults.

Dryad:
- Sentinel: Very useful
- Gale: Always feels a little too weak to me, but never bad It's good.
- Tangleweed: Good but no scaling It's good.
- Cure Wounds: Great
- Reverse Magic: Dispels gotta go
- Mana Surge: Mixed feelings, it certainly can do great damage but kind of hard or rare to pull off, and attenative enemies can avoid it completely If you're changing Aero's tweak this. If you're not, it's fine.

Dread Shaman:
- Extra Attack: Good, but passive
- Mass Regeneration: Great
- Totems: Good, but I think some of them need ranged casting placement so effective use doesn't require him to walk behind enemy lines or similar stupid shit. Health might also be a little too high. Earthbind is kind of insane. Earthbind is OP easily. If you could make it gradually wear off, <3. So it'd need constantly replacement. I think the range is mostly ok, but slightly longer range (200-250?) would be nice so you could place it OVER melee range spawns.
- Expunge: Not just a dispel, also a legacy spell that's been on my replace list forever. Strong, but needs to go. Oddly would be more usable if I could make it not automatically dispel everything Just turn it into a really powerful slow when you get rid of dispel. It's really good and very nice complement to his healing abilities for a hero like Fenny/Harpy.
- Shared Pain: A mess, does too much damage, but it's also on the wrong hero (a ranged unit who can self heal). I've wanted to move this to a new hero for a long time, the question is where Scarab might be a good destination (replace his passive or turn it into an active?) Would also be fucking pimp on SB, if you're looking cross-race, with Mend and Incinerate for controlled damage intake- but don't know what you'd remove with that (make Decoy his ult?)
- Ancestial Fury: This feels too much like a utility spell and not an ultimate. Might be a great inniate. Agreed.

Arcane Mistress:
- Aura of Undeath: Not bad but not amazing. Passive is the problem Boring, rarely used, skellies blow even after fully upgraded.
- Infernal Binding: Strong
- Mind Fog: Strong...worse Candle/Kedge. Kind of annoying but not the type of annoying that I feel is necessary to remove because it can be managed. Cooldown and/or duration probably a bit too high It's annoying but fine.
- Haunt: Amazing vs structures, but has no use otherwise (and is probably disfavored as a result). Considering toning down its effectiveness in exchange for giving it some sort of effect against non-structures as well Tone it down, make it an area affect where spirits will attack anything around it. If cast on buildings, it's a DoT and prevents them from attacking (like Smoke Cloud or Fog then, but reduced from current Haunt). This would be great as the one thing she lacks is non-Ultimate Crowd Control. Wail is fucking awesome, and the cooldown is very reasonable but it's also disruptable and after that she's just sent running.
- Black Arrow: Almost a passive but not quite. I do wonder if it needs some sort of buff though It's ok, give it a few more talents for damage or something.
- Wail: Great

Master of the Hunt:
- Search: Useful but at the same time it's not Sentinel or Sentry Owls, so it feels lacking in comparision I think it's ok, reduce its cooldown.
- Lunge: Strong, but I'm thinking of making it spawn targetable for an auto kill or triple damage. I also want to give it a small "leap" range Definitely gie it some range, but don't go overboard. It's really powerful.
- Hamstring: Slow's always good, crit is alwyas good, yet I have the impression this spell is disfavored It's overkill when you have blink, but surprisingly useful for a full-PK Fenny. Leave it imo.
- Dire Howl: Chance to miss, life steal, and increased melee damage... but doesn't seem enough I see it used, it's good, but it feels lacking.
- Dream Run: Very very useful
- Wolf Pack: I like the concept, hate the skill, gonna revamp it somehow - possibly give him temporary familiars but I'm undecided Temporary fast-moving familiars would be a lot more useful.

Icespinner:
- Create Web: Great
- Ice Lance: Great
- Frost Spire: Great
- Chill Sacrifice: Talent makes it interesting, but baseline it's in the same probelm area as Mana Rush, offering little by itself. Not sure what I want to do with it It's really good.
- Brain Freeze: Should be fairly decent, pretty annoying to fight against, but I'm not sure how popular it is It kicks ass.
- Blizzard: Not bad, just outdated. I think I'll revamp this with the same fundimental spell, but with a bit more added in Just don't mag it lag the game anymore than it already does.

Harpy: I can't play this hero for shit so I'm practicly guessing here Yeah...
- Raptor: Evade is useful, life steal attack can help her recover general damage from spawns being annoying bitches, could probably be improved a bit more If she's dying it's not going to save her; basically you use it after you've sustained a bit o' damage from chasing enemy heroes. Potions are more effective. Niche use, but that's what innates are for.
- Swoop: Decent, but overnerfed? I have no idea Haven't tried it in awhile, but you did nerf it really hard.
- Blade Rain: Terrible graphic, tends to get her killed isnce its short range, it can do decent damage but i'm not sure anyone takes it It's kind of dumb. I've seen it used well but she's so fragile if another heroes around it's just free hits. Remove the channeling and it'd suddenly become very good.
- Blind: Insane miss rate, but does anyone take it? Another possibly good but boring spell that could use additions Yeah, CC Harpies do use it but they're rare in themselves because Harpy's so fragile. Very useful though tbh.
- Backlash: Seems after a long streak of it being overpowered its happily in a acceptable spot now Yeah it's good.
- Chaos Rift: Great

DarnYak

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PostPosted: August 24th, 2011, 9:14 am 
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Bane:
- Dragonfear: I wouldnt mind seeing it changed.
- Encouragement: I think the cooldown is too long, but lower cooldown may cause too much healing.
- Charge: Better interrupt than Dragonfear and handy to get a Breath in. I dont remember if more than 1 point is useful in it.

Scarab:
- Smite: Might cost too mana.
- Life Wave: Pretty good skill, especially with damage talent.
- Nightmare: I like it.
- Armored Carapace: Strong defense, but needs upgrading to have an active!

Gravel:
- War Club: New innate wooo!
- Earthquake: It slows down people so you can bash their head in.
- Crumble: If it makes negative armor its super strong, but I dont remember using it.

Treant:
- Eat Tree: Should be given scaling
- Taunting Tree: I didnt look at it but I think I remember it having a shitload of hp.
- Reviving Tree: Saving yourself from certain death is always fun.
- Pixie Tree: I cant remember this at all.

Dryad:
- Sentinel: Maphack
- Gale: It hits buildings from far away and has knockback, so its fine.
- Cure Wounds: Most annoying heal to play against, as it heals other instantly over range without missing them on the move and can heal yourself.
- Mana Surge: I wouldnt mind seeing it go.

Dread Shaman:
- Extra Attack: Good, but passive, fun to watch with multiple talent upgrades when you are bored.
- Totems: Earthbind is kind of insane.
- Shared Pain: A mess, does too much damage, but it's also on the wrong hero (a ranged unit who can self heal). I've wanted to move this to a new hero for a long time, the question is where. Murloc illusionist! :D Spawn some illusions and cast shared pain on a area that links EVERYONE in it together. Maybe.
- Ancestial Fury: Great for mana spring totem! And a few other effects that dont do too much.

Arcane Mistress:
-Aura of Undeath: Too many talents which do too little.
- Black Arrow: Helps clearing spawns and gives even more damage against ethereal targets, key ability of my AM build. And yes, a bit boring as kinda passive.
- Wail: Awesome!

Master of the Hunt:
- Search: Makes you able to see burrowed units! :lol:
- Lunge: While Im fan of Fenris I dont think you need to buff him even more.
- Hamstring: Its his best skill!
- Dire Howl: Cant say how good it is atm.
- Wolf Pack: I like the concept, hate the skill. Yes, familiars please. :D

Icespinner:
- Chill Sacrifice: Spider army and skill spam!
- Brain Freeze: 1 for interrupt, skillpoints go in skills that deal damage or create spider armys.
- Blizzard: It already has incredible range, area and damage against buildings. If anything this needs a nerf. I think the tooltip says it slows enemies but I never noticed that.

Harpy: I can't play this hero for shit so I'm practicly guessing here
- Raptor: Could probably be improved a bit more
- Swoop: Too strong from too close ( talents? ) judging from the last game I played against her: Should require more range to use ( nerf talents? ). She has a stun after all and can use it from above cliffs and behind trees. Can also easily chase due to flying. Did I mention autoattack damage from all the agi? In the tournament game she could kill most if not all of us with 2 swoops easily, and they werent from very far away. Swoop damage should probably scale linear with swoop range, with 100% damage being at least 1000 range and minimum 5%-15% with talents at 100 range.
- Blade Rain: Deals pretty good damage against spawns.
- Blind: No idea.
- Backlash: No complain at the moment.

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Dekar: the ultimate ocean themed hero should buff and depend on spawn waves!
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Dekar: WAVES
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PostPosted: September 3rd, 2011, 11:37 am 
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Regarding Bane:
Quote:
It's more his fatness than anything.

Fun fact: Bane is the exactly same size as every single other hero in the game (except 2 undead heroes I apparently missed). I don't even remember doing that intentionally, but its clearly been that way for quite a while.

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PostPosted: September 26th, 2011, 2:59 am 
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I don't know what changes have been made to these heroes in the last year but from what I read here and what little I've seen of these heroes in recent games I wish to assert my opinions.

About Bane: Caustic Breath is his strongest instant damage spell but you want to be a little distance away and at a good angle to make the best use of it, so it is less useful after you've charged in, but then his dmg shield is in full effect. Maybe to balance his need to be in close combat and desire to have a good angle you could give his attack a small range not as long as emberwraith's.
Charge is indeed good for the interrupt, but I think Dragonfear should have a higher chance of success and be less potent.
I would love to see a punt skill like luft mentioned, I'm thinking Bane could grab a nearby mob (friendly or otherwise) and chuck it at a hero, stunning him/her for a very brief period and doing damage (maybe dependent on strength and the current health of said mob). For such a skill Bane should probably be made to lunge forward a bit during the throw.
Or you can simply make Bane charge most of the way then strike with his weapon from a short distance.
Or you can give the Charge skill a temporary defensive bonus of some kind after contact. Defence, resistance, evasion, whatever...
Encouragement is good, but with the aoe dot talent it is amazing.

All that I would say about Gravel has been said.

The change to Treant's taunting tree is good. It is still very effective but its power does not exceed the skill point cost or mana cost.
Reincarnation is better as an ultimate. I dont know what other skill he would have, maybe something like the Pixie ult but smaller aoe around him.

Imo, Dryad and Aero's ultimate are less useful than other skills. I can't say they are bad but they could use some tweaking/replacing.

All that I would say about Dread Shaman has been said.

Arcane Mistress' Haunt ability could be tweaked. It should probably target hostile or allied structures but only hurt it if hostile, and something affecting nearby enemy units, not too interrupting if it will also affect heroes.

Fenris' Wolf pack: temporary familiars yes plz thx

Icespinner is great. His Ultimate is good as is. It's fun sieging enemy outposts from a distance.

Harpy: I don't give a damn


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PostPosted: November 1st, 2011, 2:16 pm 
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Bane
-Dragonfear: A decent innate, though kinda chancy. Lower talent cost maybe or include some other bonus?
-Charge: Don't care for it. Needs work.
-Acid Sheath: Very powerful, even at rank one. Only complaint is the negative attack dmg AoE is for attacking melee units only :(
-Caustic Breath: Very powerful, borderline op even?
-Acid Rain: Appears at a first glance to be useless, but rather powerful with a good push.
-Encouragement: Strong, but high cd, low duration, and the fact it kills units may deter players from upgrading.

Scarab
-Smite: Bitchy, random, and expensive. I can’t count the times I almost killed a hero. Hate it currently.
-Carapace: Good start, but needs something more.
-Nightmare: Very strong vs. units, meh against heroes.
-Lifewave: Mixed feelings about this, still feel the AoE dmg is too low, or the mana cost it too high.
-Innate: Good….but possibly combine with Carapace for an active/passive combo?
-Ult: Seems rather balanced

Fenris
-Lunge: Solid
-Hamstring: Solid, but sorta bland
-Direhowl: Solid
-Dream run: One point wonder
-Search: Good….possibly needs something?
-Ult: Familars sound good :D

Dryad
-Sentinel: Good
-Gale: Nice, but weak
-Tangleweed: No scaling
-Dispell: ----
-Cure Wounds: Extremely strong
-Ult: Haven't tested it really, appears to be strong

Treant
-Eat Tree: Very strong with talents?
-Grasping Tree: Solid
-Rebirth: Not bad, needs a little something perhaps?
-Dispell: ----
-Taunting Treant: Heard they are overpowered, seem alright to me.
-Ult: Good, overall, deals good dmg. Maybe add scaling or some other feature

Harpy
-Swoop: Still needs some work, very easy to avoid swoop
-Blade Rain: Don't upgrade it much, not sure?
-Blind: Strong
-Backlash: Very strong
-Evasion: Meh...passive
-Ult: Strong, but out of place. New ult?

Arcane Mistress
-Animate Dead: Good
-Ethereal: Solid
-Haunt: Seems very strong with talents/upgrades
-Mind Fog: Very strong?
-Black Arrow: Not bad, needs something
-Ultimate: I rather like it the way it is

Ice Spinner
-Innate: Wonderful
-Ice Lance: Strong
-Frost Spire: Strong
-Mind Freeze: Strong
-Chill Sacrifice: Good, but lacking
-Ult: Strong

Gravel
-Innate: Too short
-HOTM: Very strong, somewhat boring
-Boulder: Strong
-Crumble: Strong, but empty
-Earthquake: Strong at high levels, but boring and lags?
-Ultimate: Haven't tested his new ult recently

Dread Shaman
-Innate: Not bad
-Totems: Strong, but scaling/clickable placing would be nice
-Expunge: Insane at high levels, even if it's a little boring
-Heal: Good
-Shared Pain: No idea, some like it, some hate it
-Ult: Great, just great


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PostPosted: November 5th, 2011, 1:56 pm 
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Bane: Decent hero, nothing special but good AoE and tankiness.
- Dragonfear: Unreliable so I only ever use it when I'm in a desperate situation. Never skilll the talent.
- Caustic Breath: Strong, especially its STR mod.
- Encouragement: His second best skill by far. Acid Pools talent is amazing, a must get. The heal is pretty decent size, especially once you start eating Bears and Dragons.
- Acid Sheath: Uh it's just overall mediocre-bad at each thing it does. Low damage, low defensive-ness
- Charge: This move is garbage. It does nothing usefull and the range is wonky as heck. Even a knockback wouldn't make it good because the spawns will most likely just move back and still creep block you.
- Storm of Malice: Great for sieges because of -armor. Overall a good Ult.

Scarab: Good tank, aoe and Creeps best pusher.
- Celestial Restoration: Meh
- Smite: Decent nuke, works great when paired with IB. Otherwise nothing special at all.
- Life Wave: Good AoE heal after the talent was nerfed it's largely pointless to get.
- Nightmare: Pretty strong spell especially when skilled for controlling hero movement and such and escape. Not really a farming tool until level 6 and boosted.
- Armored Carapace: Pretty good but I think after 3 points it becomes largely redundant due to creep damage being so low.
- Apotheosis: Strong

Gravel: Awesome siege/push and great for taking down towers with rockslide.
- War Club: Good stuff, not tat annoying.
- Rockslide: Stupidly good AoE
- Heart of the Mountain: Strong buff, but nothing something I ever max 1st or 2nd.
- Earthquake: This spell never lags me so I max it 2nd every time. SUper strong skill, lots of fun.
- Crumble: Stupid
- Rockslide: I pretty much never get this until like level 45+. THe first two levels are worthless and the 3rd is mediocre. Level 4 is good, but its not worth losing the skill points at lower levels.

Treant: Amazing hero, good utility, good dueling (1v1), good escape, good pushing good siege good push stopping.
- Eat Tree: Should be given scaling!!!!! Scales decently with talents however
- Grasping Tree: Pwn
- Taunting Tree: Pwn^2
- Reviving Tree: Revive is terribly situational but I still get a couple points.
- Dispelling Tree: It's a dispel
- Pixie Tree: Good damage, especially when combined with root.

Dryad: Dat Healer
- Sentinel: Very useful, one of the best Creep innates if you spread these.
- Gale: Always feels a little too weak to me, but never bad. Good position control but damage blows.
- Tangleweed: Meh
- Cure Wounds: Good heal
- Reverse Magic: Shitty dispel
- Mana Surge: Good for a siege so the enemy heroes take more damage.

Dread Shaman: Terrible hero, one of the worst in the game.
- Extra Attack: Decent for farming
- Mass Regeneration: Mediocre heal, 3rd skill.
- Totems: Earthbind and Ult+cleansing are too good. The rest are situational/suck. Dropping at feet is terrible.
- Expunge: Really good.
- Shared Pain: Stupid terrible skill.
- Ancestial Fury: Good ult for synergy.

Arcane Mistress: Mind Fog utility is great, the rest of her kit is meh.
- Aura of Undeath: Not bad but not amazing. Passive is the problem
- Infernal Binding: Good for combo'ing
- Mind Fog: Really really good at level 6. Too strong on non-Storm maps.
- Haunt: With talents its awesome siege, other its mediocre.
- Black Arrow: Decent? Dunno not terrible
- Wail: Good but a tad slow

Master of the Hunt: Good PK'er, the creeps need at least 1.
- Search: Anti-inf/invis pot.
- Lunge: Good
- Hamstring: Decent for not letting champs escape.
- Dire Howl: Situational and Life Steal isn't so hot.
- Dream Run: Pwn
- Wolf Pack: Uh just random as hell, not like the rest of his kit at all and somewhat bad.

Icespinner: Awesome AoE'er, best on creep side. Good siege with ult.
- Create Web: Awesome for team
- Ice Lance: Awesome nuke
- Frost Spire: Awesome farming
- Chill Sacrifice: Awesome with talent for egg sack shenanigans
- Brain Freeze: Awesomely OP with mana changes, mediocre otherwise.
- Blizzard: Awesome Ult.

Harpy: Another terribad hero.
- Raptor: Uh... garbage?
- Swoop: Garbage, this thing does like no damage at every level and is easy to evade if you are more intelligent than a turnip
- Blade Rain: Too short range so you get sniped if the enemy is smarter than a turnip
- Blind: Blind Harpy used to be good, doubt it still is because it's the only thing she can do now.
- Backlash: Most annoying fucking skill in the world.
- Chaos Rift: Good.

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PostPosted: December 14th, 2011, 8:37 pm 
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Yak's Secretary
Yak's Secretary

Joined: August 12th, 2011, 12:28 pm
Posts: 569
I've been testing with Harpy lately and I've been pretty disappointed with her. I really hope that you revamp her sooner than planned because I think she's currently the worse hero in the game.

  • Raptor is not very useful since her already low life down to even lower life makes it precarious to stay, not to mention that ranged creeps love targeting her. The evasion is not really noticeable without the talents.
  • The Swoop change made her even worse because it's impossible to get the max range with her easily missing the hero if he/she moves a bit. Level 1 sucks because she moves so slow. At level 6, the minimum damage was 510, but the highest damage I got out of it was around 700 with talents. Not to mention it has a really long cooldown comparable to a heal.
    I really hope that you'll change this to make her home in at the target at least slightly.
  • Blade Rain is terrible for making her have to go close with her already low health. Sure, it's strong but it'll take a chunk out of Harpy unless she only uses it on melee units. At best, it's only useful at the higher levels when she can kill most ranged creeps with one cast.
  • Blind is surprisingly useful for crowd control. The only bad thing might be that it's not really interesting.
  • I don't like Backlash. It's too dependent on the enemy hero to be reliable. It's also really annoying to fight against (unless you're Lich since you can override it with Remorseless).
  • Chaos Rift is superior when compared to the rest of her skills. The cooldown seems a bit long for this since it can be interrupted.

Other stuff:
Icespinner is countered by dispels pretty hard.
Suggestion for AM's active innate: An Animate Dead skill that resurrects a dead unit for a small amount of time (10ish).


Last edited by watermelon on December 14th, 2011, 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: December 14th, 2011, 9:04 pm 
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Resident
Resident

Joined: September 3rd, 2011, 3:58 pm
Posts: 152
Completely agree here. The only hero that is potentially worse is Scarab.

Quote:
The Swoop change made her even worse because it's impossible to get the max range with her easily missing the hero if he/she moves a bit. Level 1 sucks because she moves so slow. At level 6, the minimum damage was 510, but the highest damage I got out of it was around 700 with talents. Not to mention it has a really long cooldown comparable to a heal.
I really hope that you'll change this to make her home in at the target at least slightly.


I have yet to get hits this high out of swoop, and that's the problem, it's way too chancy.


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PostPosted: December 14th, 2011, 9:09 pm 
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Yak's Secretary
Yak's Secretary

Joined: August 12th, 2011, 12:28 pm
Posts: 569
^I should also add that my testing Harpy was only against the AI and thus I could actually afford money to buy more items.
In a real game where money needs to be used more wisely and is not gained as easily, damage output would probably be even much less. -_-

I don't think Scarab is bad with his heal and Nightmare.


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PostPosted: April 13th, 2012, 7:29 am 
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Wanderer
Wanderer

Joined: June 7th, 2009, 4:22 pm
Posts: 18
I think Scarab is pretty amazing.


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