The Great Hero Review: Elves

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The Great Hero Review: Elves

#1 Post by DarnYak »

Doing a complete review of every hero/spell in the game for the final version. These are my current impressions of every spell, and any currently planned changes to come. Feedback is HIGHLY DESIRABLE.

BP
- Blazing Hammer: Good, but a passive inniate, should be improved
- Backfire: Can do serious damage, but not all that fun to cast + really annoying to be the victim of. Also kind of hard to notice. Should be revamped
- Flame of the Devout: Fine, maybe cooldown is a little too long
- Kindle Faith: Decent buff, not all that fun though
- Pheonix Touch: Strong, can be absurd in the right circumstances.
- Firestorm: Strong, graphic is a bit too spammy though

Swashy: Clearly overpowered since I was able to get kills while playing him
- Flurry: Random bonus, not activated, should be improved
- Dash: Great
- Keen Blade: Strong
- Demoralizing Blow: Strong
- Mockery: Strong
- Pilfer: Stun is good, not sure about the items

RK:
- Fortification: Not the most fun spell, but helpful (unless your team is purely on the offensive)
- Siphon Glyph: Can do a lot of damage, mana drain is somewhat helpful
- Sigil of Stunning: Generic stun, possibly the last purely basic ability left in EotA, could be updated
- Rune Shell: Great
- Imbued Equipment: Passive is strong, active is strong
- Grand Rune: Cooldown might be a little too fast, but its one of the most easily interrupted abilities in the game so I'm disinclined to do so

TC:
- Phase: Useful, probably abusive in some situations
- Degeneration: Can be strong damage but pretty uncertain, somewhat easy to avoid, graphic isn't ideal
- Ebb: Very strong, but too much of a "spam everywhere if you have mana" spell. Duration is pretty absurd as well
- Rapid Healing: Perfecty fine
- Expire: Dispels are getting scrapped
- Echo: Replacing

AA:
- Scout: Utility, would be better if there were more invisiblity spells, I wouldnt mind seeing this updated in some way
- Meteor Swarm: Strong
- Mass Haste: Strong
- Ethereal Healing: Very strong heal, but completely useless without allies around, not ideal but low priority for changes
- Familiar: Owns the shit out of groups of 6 spawns with starfall!
- Ice Wall: Great

Aero:
- Aiding Winds: Good
- Tempest: Strong
- Maelstrom: Not terribly strong at any one thing but multiple uses makes it a solid spell
- Hold Person: Strong
- Mana Rush: Useful but doesn't really do anything by itself, should be revamped
- Mana Storm: Doesn't really do enough fast enough, graphics are ugly, on my list of spells I want to replace

DW: The problem with really strong nukers like this is they have no need for any other spells besides survivability skills
- Open Portal: Underused but useful
- Holy Strike: Instant high damage aoe nuke, what's not to love
- Energy Drain: Can be really strong, doesn't really fit with either the theme nor Holy Strike, but not really sure what to do with this
- Empower: Hero has a strong nuke, but lets make it stronger! This should really be his inniate, but I don't want to take away open portal
- Spellshift: Scrapping dispels
- Vengeance: Great

Inf:
- Blitz: Core spell
- AoO: Core spell #2, believe its currently fairly reasonable to deal with
- Smoke Bomb: Really screws with spawns/towers, but not sure how many people actually take it, doesn't really compliment her other abilites either
- Mines: Strong
- Elusive Flair: Still primarily for the blink, not sure other bonuses factor into anyone's decision making
- Sabotage: Arguably too strong, too easy to kill towers in an extremely short timeframe

Tact:
- Order Attack: Not bad but not really used that much (and some drawbacks to using it)
- Flank: Strong, can be kind of absurd in the right situations
- Ensnare: Seems ok
- Banner: Strong, but boring for Tact alone
- Great Bow: Passive is very strong, active is...not bad, but looks dumb and just isn't all that great in general. Considering changing it to a long range assassination shot
- Promote: Strong, not the most exciting to use

Soulbinder;
- Entrap Souls: Obviously necessary, not sure if its insufficient mana generation
- Incinerate: Can be strong but mana usage might be too limiting
- Soul Strike: Strong
- Mend: Great heal but its use is limited (being self only) and cooldown is very long, I wouldnt mind adding something to this spell
- Decoy: Somewhat overnerfed and the mechanic is just kind of weird. Considering improving it so that SB can use it as a proxy for casting spells while he hangs out invisible
- Rend: Graphic sucks, can do a lot of damage but if there's a lot of corpses it usually means the fight's already over. I want to revisit or replace this spell

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#2 Post by Luftwaffles »

Going on memory, might need to play more to refresh.
DarnYak wrote:Doing a complete review of every hero/spell in the game for the final version. These are my current impressions of every spell, and any currently planned changes to come. Feedback is HIGHLY DESIRABLE.

BP
- Blazing Hammer: Good, but a passive inniate, should be improved Fairly good with its talents iirc. Perhaps have it combo'd by Flame of the Devout or Kindle Faith or something so it does more damage.
- Backfire: Can do serious damage, but not all that fun to cast + really annoying to be the victim of. Also kind of hard to notice. Should be revamped Only relevant in the early game. Get kills with it occasionally but yeah, his least useful move by far.
- Flame of the Devout: Fine, maybe cooldown is a little too long
- Kindle Faith: Decent buff, not all that fun though
- Pheonix Touch: Strong, can be absurd in the right circumstances.
- Firestorm: Strong, graphic is a bit too spammy though

Swashy: Clearly overpowered since I was able to get kills while playing him
- Flurry: Random bonus, not activated, should be improved
- Dash: Great
- Keen Blade: Strong
- Demoralizing Blow: Strong
- Mockery: Strong
- Pilfer: Stun is good, not sure about the items Items are okay, Swash is pretty powerful in the right hands.

RK:
- Fortification: Not the most fun spell, but helpful (unless your team is purely on the offensive)
- Siphon Glyph: Can do a lot of damage, mana drain is somewhat helpful
- Sigil of Stunning: Generic stun, possibly the last purely basic ability left in EotA, could be updated Surprisingly useful, I don't mind it tbh.
- Rune Shell: Great
- Imbued Equipment: Passive is strong, active is strong
- Grand Rune: Cooldown might be a little too fast, but its one of the most easily interrupted abilities in the game so I'm disinclined to do so It's fine the way it is. Easy to avoid and interrupt.

TC:
- Phase: Useful, probably abusive in some situations
- Degeneration: Can be strong damage but pretty uncertain, somewhat easy to avoid, graphic isn't ideal. Recommend some changes here. Reduce the damage and make it a channelled DoT (might be OP) or give it a talent so that if they move out of range it'll automatically do like half the damage or something. Other heroes have attacks that are far more reliable.
- Ebb: Very strong, but too much of a "spam everywhere if you have mana" spell. Duration is pretty absurd as well. Though it's dispellable, but if you're scrapping those it might become quite powerful.
- Rapid Healing: Perfecty fine
- Expire: Dispels are getting scrapped
- Echo: Replacing

AA:
- Scout: Utility, would be better if there were more invisiblity spells, I wouldnt mind seeing this updated in some way. Easy to spam and has some utility, but I usually only do it around my base or a fountain when it's free mana. Would do something to it.
- Meteor Swarm: Strong
- Mass Haste: Strong
- Ethereal Healing: Very strong heal, but completely useless without allies around, not ideal but low priority for changes No real need to change it; useful on your fam, helpful for allies, if you're going for a more powerful or solo-oriented build very easy to ignore and take Haste instead.
- Familiar: Owns the shit out of groups of 6 spawns with starfall!
- Ice Wall: Great

Aero:
- Aiding Winds: Good
- Tempest: Strong
- Maelstrom: Not terribly strong at any one thing but multiple uses makes it a solid spell
- Hold Person: Strong
- Mana Rush: Useful but doesn't really do anything by itself, should be revamped Actually I use it all the time, lets you basically perma-camp a lane with a few pots. Super useful with high-mana users like AA or DW.
- Mana Storm: Doesn't really do enough fast enough, graphics are ugly, on my list of spells I want to replace I've always found it pretty useful, but it rarely ever kills anything; mostly just there as a harass/block during pushes.

DW: The problem with really strong nukers like this is they have no need for any other spells besides survivability skills
- Open Portal: Underused but useful
- Holy Strike: Instant high damage aoe nuke, what's not to love
- Energy Drain: Can be really strong, doesn't really fit with either the theme nor Holy Strike, but not really sure what to do with this Keep it. Drain > Strike is classic and a very good combo (since it soaks up mana). If you have to alter something combine it somehow with Empower. Give DW back Heaven's Wrath, put Vengeance in place of Empower, graft Empower's bonus onto Energy Drain when he's full health... the route to making him awesome and OP!!
- Empower: Hero has a strong nuke, but lets make it stronger! This should really be his inniate, but I don't want to take away open portal
- Spellshift: Scrapping dispels
- Vengeance: Great

Inf:
- Blitz: Core spell
- AoO: Core spell #2, believe its currently fairly reasonable to deal with
- Smoke Bomb: Really screws with spawns/towers, but not sure how many people actually take it, doesn't really compliment her other abilites either It's really good vs. towers and frustrating when used well with Sabotoge.
- Mines: Strong
- Elusive Flair: Still primarily for the blink, not sure other bonuses factor into anyone's decision making Blink is all that's needed. Anything else is superfluous (and thus nice, but we're gonna get it for blink/escape).
- Sabotage: Arguably too strong, too easy to kill towers in an extremely short timeframe

Tact:
- Order Attack: Not bad but not really used that much (and some drawbacks to using it) In the hands of tactfully played Tact it gets used well enough I think. Could do with a bit of sprucing up if you'd like (maybe a brief AoE attack bonus or something so you'd use it both during battle and when you really want to attack something).
- Flank: Strong, can be kind of absurd in the right situations
- Ensnare: Seems ok It's fine.
- Banner: Strong, but boring for Tact alone Eh, it works out. Tact is a team player anyway, and can be avoided and points put into Great Bow/Flank if you want a more solo oriented Tact anyway.
- Great Bow: Passive is very strong, active is...not bad, but looks dumb and just isn't all that great in general. Considering changing it to a long range assassination shot I dunno, turns the Tact's attack into a pretty big bolt of pain. Don't remember the active.
- Promote: Strong, not the most exciting to use

Soulbinder;
- Entrap Souls: Obviously necessary, not sure if its insufficient mana generation Moar mana plz. Don't remember if the mana gain was int-based but if it isn't, it should be to scale up with mana increases.
- Incinerate: Can be strong but mana usage might be too limiting Related to the above ^. Awesome as an interrupt and crowd control
- Soul Strike: Strong
- Mend: Great heal but its use is limited (being self only) and cooldown is very long, I wouldnt mind adding something to this spell. Actually it complements really, really well with Incinerate and can be a life saver if you're Decoy retreating. Give it another talent or something maybe, and if Entrap Souls gets you more mana (or the talent, he has one for mana right? Or more souls?), it'd be rubbing shoulders with OP.
- Decoy: Somewhat overnerfed and the mechanic is just kind of weird. Considering improving it so that SB can use it as a proxy for casting spells while he hangs out invisible Yeah but it needed to get nerfed. Decoy port was pretty mean. Giving it the ability to cast say Incinerate and false-Mend would be pretty badass.
- Rend: Graphic sucks, can do a lot of damage but if there's a lot of corpses it usually means the fight's already over. I want to revisit or replace this spell Rend has some uses, but yeah it usually gets used against tiny waves. A chain debuff that causes dying units to explode on death or something and give him mana would be cooler.

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#3 Post by Dekar »

Flame of the Devout: The last few times I remember using it I was not impressed, how much does it heal on level 6?

Pilfer: Items use up inventory space.

Degeneration Is a pretty strong skill comboed with Ebb and Phase, but you have no real indication of the casting range to know when to abort it.

Elusive Flair: You can build her for melee damage and this supports it.

Order Attack: My favorite skill to take down enemy obelisks early. Did spawns idling somewhere influence the size of new waves somehow?

Promote: Promoting 4 sorcs is pretty exciting for me. :D I like it when they spam healing wave and fire golems.

Ethereal Healing: Keeps the familiar alive with lvl 1.

Energy Drain: Probably deals too much damage as it gives you looots of mana.

Banner: Every build should get it, no excuse. Maybe merge it with order Attack?

Entrap Souls: I always get lots of int and more souls captured to have enough mana. Should probably give more.

Incinerate: I prefer it to Soulstrike as you can solo whole outposts alone with it and enough mana.

Decoy: One point wonder. Decay use can be observed by an enemy with a keen eye.

For the other stuff I agree with Ion.
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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#4 Post by DarnYak »

Did spawns idling somewhere influence the size of new waves somehow?
There's a 3 wave limit from any particular base alive at any one time.

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#5 Post by Discombobulator »

Tact is fine.
Inf is fine.
AA is fine.
Aero is fine, though Mana Rush may not be one of your most inspired spells.
BP: backfire needs replacement, FotD is imho weak ATM.
RK is fine.
Swash is fine.
TC - revamp but keep Ebb and Rapid Healing.
SB - Rend sucks cause it's so unreliable. Suggest you copy Explusion and make explosions follow the hero. Every single time I use it, it follows corpses in the wrong direction.
DW is fine.
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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#6 Post by Tehw00tz »

Discombobulator wrote: TC - revamp but keep Ebb and Rapid Healing.
Personally, I like Echo and think it's a good spell. Might not fit with her support M.O. but I think removing it isn't needed.
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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#7 Post by Kalrithus »

Will update as I play through heroes again.

Blazing Priest:
Blazing Hammer - With the talents is probably the best thing ever for sieging, the damage is good and the slowing of tower attack is good, but the prevention of repairs can just break things. For an active, I know you already said you're scrapping the dispel system, but having him purge negative buffs around him in a fiery blaze seems in tune with at least the buffing and supportive aspect of the hero.

Backfire - A rather underused talent that is more of an annoyance than an actual threat. Would suggest upping the DoT considerably but shortening the duration and also add the effect that when a hero with backfire on them casts a spell with the DoT already active, that it deals additional damage(either the DoT's full damage or the remaining damage on the DoT) and reapplies the buff.

Flame of the Devout - A great troop support although it really lacks power late game when nukers and clearing waves with a couple spells, Currently claims the heal gets weaker as its life ticks down. Would suggest that it instead the heal get stronger as the life ticks down (flame burns brightest before it goes out cliche). Could also reduce duration and cooldown because having to constantly wait on what feels like a full minute cooldown is boring when its a baseline ability.

Kindle Faith - Not really much to say. Its a solid troop buff and the %damage scales really well on heroes that either have a high base attack or buy attack upgrades.

Pheonix Touch - Good if you have the mana to support constant use.

Firestorm - Good and its somewhat enjoyable to cover the screen in fire. At least for you

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#8 Post by Strychnyne »

BP:
Love the innate, love anything that is siege related.
I only use Backfire to combo with RK if someone I know is playing the other half. Definitely hard to notice, not really vicious enough to play around or care about.
Flame: Fine.
Kindle Faith: agreed.
Phoenix: great, again for the siege.
Firestorm: agreed.

Swashy: Absolute favourite
Flurry: amazing if you max his talent, essentially makes it activate-able , makes Keen Blade strong enough.
Dash: still the spell that got me hooked in the first place.
Demo Blow: fine, not too exciting, just another way to hit someone with his sword. Would love to see a graphic that actually seems like it would demoralize.
Mockery: brilliant
Pilfer: stun is fine, items are almost essential, wish you had more control or a preference for items you already have in your inventory, or not getting dispell scrolls when you have WoNs. When it gives you that health pot or assassin pots, amazing. At level 6 it should really give you an advantage that makes it worth favouring over the other kill moves.

RK: still scary as all hell
Fort: Good and flavourful, but you forget about it after you get to your lane
Siphon: so very, very good. Scares heros, kills mobs
Sigil: boring, almost too good? His weakness is his speed, and that sorts it. Would rather he comboed with someone else, but an interrupt is always essential.
Shell: super duper
Equipment: really strong, very coverall
GR: wonderful

TC: Tauren Chieftain
Phase: love it.
Degen: great, but requires positioning she doesn't have the speed for. Should be better, but she is support class.
Ebb: yup. And not very fun. Yeah, you're making a difference, but it doesn't feel like it.
Heal: great for elves, though not a fan of AA's heal being hero specific when this exists in a more specific role. Would like AA's changed up a bit, I guess.
Expire: *sheds a tear for dispels* She definitely could use this design space to become more of a threat in someway or another.
Echo: welp. Nice idea, at least.

AA: easily one of my favourites
Scout: use it constantly, give one to follow every hero, lets me play at max zoom
Meteor Swarm: so perfect with lvl 4 Familiar, does everything
Heal: SO strong, always a level or two
Familiar: wicked, though wish it showed up in the corner of your screen!
Wall: So flavourful, not amazing, but can be used to great effect. Love its talent.

Aero: free crystal!
Winds: very good on mobs or heros or for running away. I love me my speed mods
Tempest: solid
Maelstrom: doesn't give much argument to take over any other spell, but still strong enough in the right hands to be a threat
HP: scary
Rush: if you stay on it you don't need mana pots, one of the few buffs to an ally that grants mana, very useful if team mates are involved. But yeah, not overly exciting.
Storm: definitely ugly. GREAT defensibly against the heroes with siege ultimates, not good enough to kill but powerful with HP. Forces play even if it doesn't end it.

DW: Definitely a fall back, better against n00bs
Portal: favourite thing about him. Lets you double back from the castle for free, great for putting pressure all over the map
Strike: perfect
Drain: get it lvl 1, so wonderful. Doesn't fit with the theme, but very pretty.
Empower: yeah, innate makes sense, but how do you level up portal? I don't think it's talent works for getting back mana. I like how it supports his troops
Spellshift: really? But dispels are so goood! And so god damn unique. I guess it is just getting a skill to fuck someone else's skill, and you really need them level 6 to be good. I wish they were good enough even if they didn't remove effects from you, more castable... But okay!
Vengeance: so tasty.

Inf: sneaky, what can I say?
Blitz: yep
AoO: yep
Bomb: use it over mines, super strong miss percentage, I THINK the talent is good? It's been a while.
Flair: yup, basically. Really nice for movement, not much for anything else. The key to her is to AoO as much as you can and not die, so everyone focuses on that. That's her thing.
Sabo: don't like how she can nuke any object she finds, she usually finishes them off post battle. Don't think too strong, though.

Tact: wonderfully solid, scary late game
Order: use it to snipe buildings, nothing long distance
Flank: easy to counter with items and thinking, but great that she can generate her own army. Also perfect since her DPS is so high, good trade off between army or hero oriented builds
Ensnare: pays off with practice, only need a few levels so you can ambush with Flank and Banner.
Banner: really good, especially with the talent, LOVE it with allies (all heroes need a banner on all sides for AP. Seriously.) Other players change up its use dramatically instead of treating it as an attack upgrade.
Bow: NEVER use the activated part, eats up mana for nothing. Love the passive, wish I could justify focusing on it.
Promote: so good if you get enough magicians, sucks if you're playing AP, would love control over them. Almost win-more unless you are pushing solo.

Soulbinder: bring back the ooorbs. Best banner.
Entrap: seems fine. Only issue is if you are out of mp and hp you take a long time to get back into the fight. Can't TP from base and help people until later levels.
Incinerate: don't find it limited at all. Absolutely essential if he is to make any impact of the field.
Soul Strike: finally, with the talent, it is super good and exactly where I like it.
Mend: only need it level 1 for most of the game, good with maxed talent all game. Pretty boring. Would like if it gave mana regen somehow. Definitely room for some flair.
Decoy: really, really, really good at killing comps. Extremely deadly when used properly, but finicky. Hard to use an escape spell to be offensive, seems split. Would love to see more. When it gets played around it just sucks.
Rend: needs a better graphic. Used for finishing off a tower with the ring of corpses you Incinerated. Not good to stop pushes, good to kill towers.

Overall: I really think this is the strongest team by far. Definitely the hardest to deal with. They shape the battlefield way more. Not that they can't be dealt with, but you always have to deal with them instead of the other way around.
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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#9 Post by DarnYak »

Bump to remind people this one's current ongoing.

Only one certain change beyond the BP/TC revamps (still trying to come up with a few new skills though):
- Swashy's inniate is going to be Evasion (activate for high dodge for ~5-10s)

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#10 Post by DarnYak »

Current path to finishing elf revamp, excluding changes already made. This is focusing more on fundimental skill changes, not number tweaks (more looking at those on the way)

Will/Must replace:
- Expire (TC)
- Spellshift (DW)
- Mana Storm (Aero)
- Mana Rush (Aero)
- Rend (SB)

Want to replace/upgrade (if I get a good idea)
- Scout (AA)
- Great Bow's active (Tact)

Still debating:
- Sigil of Stunning (RK)

Some specifics:

- Great Bow: Considering making Great Bow either: (1) an activatable multishot for a time, or (2) a long range sniper skill
- Mana Storm: I have a vague remake in mind, it'll still be mana storm but the fundamentals will be so different it'll be a completely new skill.
- Mana Rush: Torn between upgrading this or making it a side effect of the revamped Mana Storm
- Rend: I have a fairly cool idea for a revamp but it has the unfortuante effect of also requiring corpses, so I'm still trying to figure out how to handle it (possibly either front load some damage to generate corpses, or alternately make it use extra mana in the absence of corpses)
- Sigil of Stunning: I'm considering replacing this with more of a trap rune, where all units who walk through it get stunned after a delay (vaguely like statis trap, but this one won't kill itself)
- Expire/Spellshift: Currently no good ideas on the table

As for DW in general: I'm debating what to do with DW. He seems a solid hero (maybe op?) but too focused on pure damage - and maybe that's fine. However, I have a hero revamp I'm considering experimenting with on him, he'd keep the same basic spells but they'd be changed a bit so his playstyle would be different. ALTERNATELY, I could just make a completely new hero built around it, probably another damage heavy nuker and probably on fel orcs.

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#11 Post by DarnYak »

In the middle of redoing SB now. Mend is really bothering me, it's a really strong but its use seems overly limited. SB does need some sort of self heal though, and the only other option i could see is merging it with entrap (which would just be op). Considering giving it some passive effect, or some sort of additional effect, I'm not sure.

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#12 Post by Sparda963 »

maybe add it in with decoy? when your decoy is out you get an increased hp regen or something?
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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#13 Post by DarnYak »

I suspect that would be way too much in one skill. It's already bursting with crap. Maybe i should replace mend with some sort of modified shared pain... No definitely not. Meh i dunno.

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#14 Post by Luftwaffles »

I like Mend the way it is.
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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#15 Post by Dekar »

Rip out and absorbing souls and health from living units?
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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#16 Post by DarnYak »

Dekar wrote:Rip out and absorbing souls and health from living units?
He's not a freaking vampire ;P

I'm trying to come up with some way to change Mend to have more of a team skill use, as right now SB mostly lacks any ability to work with allies. Some sort of spirit link effect would seem good, but I'm not sure of the effect. Obviously not the base spirit link, having damage split among heroes would just be annoying. Could be entirely passive (making it effectively a hero only aura of some sort).

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#17 Post by Tehw00tz »

DarnYak wrote:
Dekar wrote:Rip out and absorbing souls and health from living units?
He's not a freaking vampire ;P
If he were he would sparkle.
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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#18 Post by Sparda963 »

he could start dancing and everyone around him dies of laughter!
It's not rape if you yell surprise!

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#19 Post by jamn455 »

Soul Strike does kind of sparkle now that you said something about it.
Line 'em up.
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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#20 Post by Mandein »

I love having an AA on my team with Owls everywhere, I don't know why you would consider changing that.

Aero, like the divine wizard, is a glass cannon. Deals lots of damage but not too hard to kill. I'm not saying they are too easy to kill, aero has a good Speed boost and regen talent and you need to watch out for the DW's Vengeance.
That said, I believe that removing him from the elves and adding a very similar hero to the fel horde is a good idea. The theme could be changed from holy retribution to a burning vengeance.
Mana Rush is wonderful, here again I don't know why you'd consider altering that.
Maelstrom is nice but putting points into it is not as worthwhile as Tempest, Hold or even Mana Rush.

Infiltrator is fun times. Backstab and Mines are both excellent. Mines also excel at mob control. Smoke Bomb is cool, very useful in various circumstances but I'd rather put more points into Backstab or Mines, and I always want at least a point or two for Blink.

Tact: it would be cool to have a shorter range (1000-2000) Attack Order to focus your surrounding mobs on a hero or tower. Or merely to keep your mobs in the fight instead of running miles after a fast retreating enemy hero. The Great Bow active is nice in that it is her aoe attack. Perhaps if you made it a toggleable multi attack (lvl 1: for 9 mana she attacks 2 targets, lvl 2: 17 mana 3 targets...) it would be more useful. the passive is very good of course. Would be nice if Promote and Banner were more useful when not in the elven battalion. Ensnare is ok.

Soulbinder is good, but maybe the decoy's hero skills should be (lvl-1) making it necessary for a skill to be at least lvl 2 before your decoy can use it and so that there will be more reason for the real SB to make the shots. That or something like a (50, 45, 40, 35, 30, 25%) damage reduction for all his spells, maybe even his physical damage as well. He maintains mana well enough imo. Especially while his decoy can gather souls for him, and his and his decoy's cooldown timers are seperate.

As for the other elven heroes, I dont have enough experience with them to have anything to say.
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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#21 Post by DarnYak »

That said, I believe that removing him from the elves and adding a very similar hero to the fel horde is a good idea. The theme could be changed from holy retribution to a burning vengeance.
Just to clarify: He's not getting removed. Instead a very similar hero will be added to fel orcs with a different/experimental design change.

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#22 Post by SuIIy »

I realize you're not completely finished with the elf revamps but I wanted to bitch a little more about the need to nerf swashy. The amount of crits, stuns, and blinks makes that hero extremely powerful....And yes, the added items help. Alot.

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#23 Post by watermelon »

BP:
- Blazing Hammer: Good, strong harassment skill against buildings and heroes.
- Knockback: Does a good job on substituting that other skill.

Swashy:
I've only had to fight against him. He's probably the best hero killer in the game. It's pretty hard to run away from him with most heroes. The only time I managed to escape him was when I was AC or Infli.

RK:
- Fortification: Would be nice if it could be utilized in some way when he's on the offensive, but it's good as is.
- Sigil of Stunning: Really generic stun.

TC:
- Phase: Nifty skill that can lead to gang-ups or save an ally.
- Degeneration: Really good now that the range can be seen.
- Ebb and Flow: Nice skill, but it should be mentioned somewhere that the duration is longer if you cast it further away from TC. It shouldn't block units either.
- Fork: OP skill that makes everyone complain about her. I do like the concept though. Clones should be more inferior.

AA:
- Scout: Great utility skill. If you trust your team, you can have shared ally settings so that they can control your owls or make you cast them if they need it.
- Ethereal Healing: Really strong heal at low levels though the short cast range makes it a bit undesirable. If you're trying to change it to be used without allies, maybe you could make it cast on AA except with reduced/no healing.

Aero:
I hope you'll add another talent to her.
- Mana Rush: Nice infinite mana if she's by herself. Good support as well with her talent.
- Tempest: Only problem I have with it is when it's invisible.
- Soar: Utility skill, pretty much one skill point only. Awesome on Stormwail mid lane, elsewhere it might not be really good.
- Mana Storm: Its revamp and not having it dispellable makes it even more annoying a better harassment skill than before, good job.

DW:
- Open Portal: Good utility, saves an ally of having to teleport. Needs a bit of coordination though. Maybe make it ping the minimap for allies when it's cast? Making it able to close on its own might be a nice touch.
- Rune: Good replacement. There should be a range when units can escape it if there isn't already.

Infli:
AoO: Nice skill. Makes it hard for enemies to run away safely. It's also funny to get facestabs with this skill.
Mines: If you have the Mana Circlet, it's pretty much lay them down whenever it's not on cooldown. Level 1 mines should be primarily used to get vision. If you trust your team, you can share control with them so they can blow up mines as well.
Smoke Bomb: I would only get this if the other team has an invisibility detector, making mines less favorable. It's good by itself for sieging.
Elusive Flair: One skill point for Blink, good for escape or chase. I wouldn't really care if the bonuses were stripped.
Sabotage: Fine since you have to damage the building to an extent and it's only useful if the team is on the offensive.

Tact:
Strong hero, particularly on the Elven side.
Great Bow: Nice passive, fail active.
Promote: Gets 4 random units when not on the Elf side. Hope you change this so it can affect any creep.

SB:
Incinerate: Good AoE knockback skill with low cooldown.
Soul Strike: Good damaging, hard because it's pretty easy to escape since SB doesn't have anything to stop the target by himself. Talent improves it but it's still not very reliable.
Decoy: Good now that it can actually do stuff.

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#24 Post by DarnYak »

FYI Fork changes:
#1: 25% of current mana will be lost to both the hero and the clone on a swap
#2: Clones will now take damage per second equal to the amount of time since their last swap. Basicly they desync/destabilize the further they get from the actual timeline. I expect I'll probably have to tone this down a bit but need to start somewhere.

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Re: The Great Hero Review: Elves

#25 Post by SuIIy »

Swashy: Clearly overpowered since I was able to get kills while playing him
- Flurry: Random bonus, not activated, should be improved
- Dash: Great
- Keen Blade: Strong
- Demoralizing Blow: Strong
- Mockery: Strong
- Pilfer: Stun is good, not sure about the items
Slight necro'ing, please forgive. Had to comment on Swashy after doing a single 5v5 Candle....

* Pilfer
Actually a fairly shitty skill, not that it needs changing. I think it's fine how it is. But the stun (only two seconds, at rank 6), items (only useful early game), and gold return (virtually none existent, even at rank 6), really makes this skill a one point wonder. This isn't factoring in the talents, which from what I deducted were fairly reasonable.

* Flurry
Fairly bland, yet extremely useful. The talents, although expensive, make this skill insane.

* Demoralizing Blow
Signature skill. Damage is fairly high, 450ish with 100 Int; Int-based modifier is a drawback. Cd is relatively short as well and the damage reduction AoE is pretty noticeable and really helps you to avoid taking damage. Really handy when paired with Flurry. The talent(s) for this skill are a must have.

* Dash
Damage is fairly low, yet cd is as well. Nice for running in and out of stuff. Can be used as a one point wonder or skilled for AoE damage. Agi modifier is a plus.

* Keen Blade
Other signature skill, arguably what makes Swashy do so much damage. Crit chance starts at 10%, ends at 35%, to do 3x normal damage. If you pack some attack upgrades and crit gloves, this skill is beyond abusive. Int modifer for duration a slight drawback.

* Mockery
Pretty good skill, overall. Nothing special, nothing bland. A great stun. However, slightly useless after rank 1 if points are invested in Demo Blows sheep stun thingy.

Overall, this hero is really strong, almost abusive, especially later game. Needs some fairly serious nerfing. Perhaps a revamp of Pilfer and Mockery to offset dumbing down his other capabilities. Just a thought.

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