Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight
http://eota.emufarmers.com/forums/

Fenris
http://eota.emufarmers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1658
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Author:  Ethereal99 [ October 15th, 2009, 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Fenris

A brief overview of Fenris's abilities and stats:
Agility based hero
Lunge : Massive one strike that does a a fixed amount of damaged plus a multiple of strength
Hamstring : Reduces move speed, attack speed and adds the chance for a two times normal damage crit to the target
Dire Howl : Reduces damage of enemy units, adds damage to Fenris, gives Fenris a rejuvenation effect every time he attacks
Dream Run : An incredibly long dash that allows the hero to travel over water and pretty much go anywhere they want
Search : Searches out all invisible units near Fenris

The case against Fenris:

Fenris is perhaps the most over powered hero of Eve of the Apocalypse. One can not run from him, he has Hamstring. Neither can he be hidden from, he has an invisibility breaker built into his innate skill. And to top it off he can not even be teleported away from, his Dream Run can out run anyone and anything else on the map.

While he is an agility based hero his massive hero killing ability, Lunge, benefits from having high levels of strength which inevitably translates into having super high armor and super high health. Given that he can get away from virtually any attack, any trap, any counter whenever things start looking bad through Dream Run and that he's going to be tough enough with high health and armor the case against Fenris is pretty solid. For the sake of balance and the fun of EotA please remove Fenris from the map.

Author:  Discombobulator [ October 15th, 2009, 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fenris

How 'bout you stop posting on the forum until you learn to play?

Author:  Lunargent [ October 15th, 2009, 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fenris

I've found 95% of Fenris players are totally unprepared for nets. They tend to take risks and run into bases expecting to kill a low health hero then dream run out.

Author:  CryptLord1234 [ October 15th, 2009, 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fenris

Discombobulator wrote:
How 'bout you stop posting on the forum until you learn to play?


While I don't really wanna be harsh, I kinda agree. You seem to have a shitton of trouble from hero killers. . .which you should, given that they're kinda built around killing heroes.

Author:  Reaper [ October 16th, 2009, 2:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fenris

uhh Fenris is just not that good.

1. Get potions/health
2. Get a dispell wand
3. Nets

Really just learn to counter heroes

Author:  Ethereal99 [ October 16th, 2009, 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fenris

Hero killers in general are the only real problem with the map at the moment. A hero killer on a map where all you really control is your hero is in and of itself unbalanced.

The pattern is typically this: A hero killer chases away a hero because he's not facing someone that can counter him (anything other than a hero killer, usually) then he farms gold and experience, then he chases the hero of that lane again and continues to farm gold and experience until he's too powerful to be denied.

I'm tackling the hero killers one at a time and presenting a case against each so if the best you're going to give me is "waste gold and slot space on consumables that will ultimately fail" or "learn to play" please refrain from posting. Now for the specific responses I have yet to address...

Lunargent: That even inexperienced players can take such stupid chances and get away with it should be reason enough to change this hero. Regardless if they're ready for nets or not, a Fenris player will rarely wait until they're 5 seconds from death and if the net fails they will just invul run away making him nearly undefeatable.

Author:  CryptLord1234 [ October 16th, 2009, 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fenris

Ethereal99 wrote:
Regardless if they're ready for nets or not, a Fenris player will rarely wait until they're 5 seconds from death and if the net fails they will just invul run away making him nearly undefeatable.


So he runs into your base, you net him, turn, and burst him. Almost every hero has a low/short cooldown spell that, combined with the towers' barrage, will kill Fenny/make him run off; it's even better if you have a stun. They won't really be expecting that damage to come in. And if he 'wastes gold' on 'consumables that ultimately fail', they just kept him alive, didn't they? Not a waste there.

Author:  RSOG [ October 16th, 2009, 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fenris

Fenris? OP? HAH!

In my experience, the only time that Fenris is a problem is if my teammates die left and right in early game - meaning, if he's fed a lot. In my experience, Fenris has a heck of a time getting gold from anything except hero kills, because he lacks real AoE. If he doesn't kill anyone in early game, he won't be able to overpower you later.

Likewise, if you and your teammates do your job instead of trying to play "EotA Hero Arena," he will have to spend his money on Mercenaries, repairs, rebuilding obelisks, or any number of other things BESIDES permanently increasing his own power. Hero killers don't inherently win hero conflicts - they're just slightly better at them when built for it. Stop the build.

Feeders make any hero a problem. Fenris more so than some, but less so than others (*cough* Infiltrator or Swashy).

Furthermore, EotA is not a game about fighting fair. Don't let him engage you in a vacuum. Move in pairs, or at least have someone in a nearby lane who can come to help before you die. Carry consumables. Stick near your spawnies. If you can get Fenris surrounded by spawnies (nets are GREAT for this), he'll have to use his dream run to get out, and if he tries to keep persueing you, then he won't have it to escape later when you nuke him.

If you're routinely at low enough health that Fenris can kill you before you or your teammates can react, you have bigger things to worry about. Like infiltrators. ;)

Author:  Reaper [ October 16th, 2009, 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fenris

Ethereal99 wrote:
I'm tackling the hero killers one at a time and presenting a case against each so if the best you're going to give me is "waste gold and slot space on consumables that will ultimately fail" or "learn to play" please refrain from posting. Now for the specific responses I have yet to address...


How is it a waste exactly? Chances are you can kill units with aoe and farm a lot more gold than fenris can, and spending 50-100 gold on a consumable and an item slot isn't going to break the bank.

Do you actually use all your inventory slots?

Author:  Ethereal99 [ October 17th, 2009, 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fenris

RSOG wrote:
In my experience, the only time that Fenris is a problem is if my teammates die left and right in early game - meaning, if he's fed a lot. In my experience, Fenris has a heck of a time getting gold from anything except hero kills, because he lacks real AoE. If he doesn't kill anyone in early game, he won't be able to overpower you later.


Regardless if he's fed or not he is near impossible to shut down. He can easily move past all static and moving defenses with dream run, counter all attempts to escape with dream run and search and shutting him down is normally a five second ordeal or less. All in all that's the real problem, he can't be stopped but he can easily stop you and that's way out of balance.

Reaper wrote:
How is it a waste exactly? Chances are you can kill units with aoe and farm a lot more gold than fenris can, and spending 50-100 gold on a consumable and an item slot isn't going to break the bank.

Do you actually use all your inventory slots?


It is a waste because it simply won't save you for very long if at all.

That sort of gold farming typically comes far too late. If you can knock over half a wave with a spell chances are he can knock you over in about seven seconds.

Yes, I typically use all my inventory slots.

Author:  Reaper [ October 17th, 2009, 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fenris

Fenris has a limited amount of mana, and is pretty vulnerable to nukes and disables. You don't have to 1 shot a wave to get kills and gold with aoe. With a bit of skill, you can easily farm a couple hundred per wave past level 10.

Maybe if you spend more money on obelisks and defending it won't matter if he kills you once in a while

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