trigger list

[Cokemonkey11]

In the past I've made trigger lists for my protected maps so that people could see how I did certain things without worrying about getting ripped off.

Is there a chance the triggers for EotA will ever get posted here?

I'm specifically trying to figure out how EotA did upgradable items. There are a few ways I can think of but I'm sure DarnYak though of an even better way...

Peace.

[JetFangInferno]

I have almost successfully recreated DarnYak's amazing item upgrading system. The only problem I have with it is displaying error messages such as "You don't have enough gold." Also, for some reason, the item getting upgraded DOES disappear but the leveled up does NOT appear. Perhaps some warcraft bug?

[DarnYak]

The item upgrade system a horribly shitty and tedious system. Wasn't even using jass at the time becuase I never expected to be map making long enough for it to be worthwhile. It needs a severe re-write as it is.

Basicly its a bunch of global arrays with data manually filled in one massive trigger. ie

upgrade_item[0]=Orb
upgrade_result[0]=Orb+1
upgrade_gold[0]=300
upgrade_crystal[0]=0

etc.

And, since wc3 isn't really very dynamic for things like this, every single item must be made seperately. This was one of the prime causes of eota taking 5 minutse to load when its not widetized.

On a related note, Witching Hour's item system was so much better, but its more crafting based, which I refuse to do for eota.

DarnYak

[Cokemonkey11]

hmm thank you that's basically the same thing I had started but I figured you found a better way (eota is like the jesus of maps imo)

peace

[Highlord Asehujiko]

The trigger i'm most interested in is how Shadow Bastions can fire on the move. I tried doing roughly the same with batrider strafing runs but can't get it to work.

[Dekar]

Try the Phoenix Fire ability.

[Ion]

Just out of curiosity, what do you hate so much about crafting Yak?

[DarnYak]

Just out of curiosity, what do you hate so much about crafting Yak?

Its out of place in an AoS. Primarily it takes time away from the focus of the game, combatting the other team, due to either item collection and/or just figuring out the recipes. Second, once you do know the recipes, its an unfair and hard to compensate for advantage over those who don't, from the obvious superior hero power from them to the other person falling behind becuase they spend too much time trying to figure it out. This isn't to say I don't want to reward superior knowledge of the game, however these ammount to just memorizing tables, rather then aspects such as planning builds out.

Arguably it could potentially be done well if the gathering part was a focus, conflict driven aspect of the game, but I think its just better to abstract it with crystal or similar.

DarnYak

[Dekar]

In the AoS I'm working on, every recipe needs a recipe scroll + items for it to make. But if you just use the scroll with some or all items of the recipe missing, it will deduct the gold value of the missing items from your gold if you have enough, and create the recipe item.

Because we came to the conclusion that buying a dozen of items for a high level recipe just plain sucks.

[Elreth]

Just out of curiosity, what do you hate so much about crafting Yak?

Its out of place in an AoS. Primarily it takes time away from the focus of the game, combatting the other team, due to either item collection and/or just figuring out the recipes. Second, once you do know the recipes, its an unfair and hard to compensate for advantage over those who don't, from the obvious superior hero power from them to the other person falling behind becuase they spend too much time trying to figure it out. This isn't to say I don't want to reward superior knowledge of the game, however these ammount to just memorizing tables, rather then aspects such as planning builds out.

Arguably it could potentially be done well if the gathering part was a focus, conflict driven aspect of the game, but I think its just better to abstract it with crystal or similar.

DarnYak

Yes, yes, super yes. I would be extremely dissapointed if recipies ever found their way into EotA. Theyre so stupid; its rediculous how stupid they are.

[Strychnyne]

Yes, yes, super yes. I would be extremely dissapointed if recipies ever found their way into EotA. Theyre so stupid; its rediculous how stupid they are.

They really are so, so, so stupid.

[randomd00d]

Well, recipes aren't so much stupid as they are out of place for EoTA.

They work great in DoTA, because that map is very much focused on heroes. Creeps are little more than walking moneybags. Items are the only thing to spend your money on just about. There are long discussions on the forums about which items combos to use with certain heroes.


EotA has a much more epic feel, as the heroes LEAD the charge... as opposed to BEING the charge.

A middle ground approach seems to work best. Those that become itemwhores and focus solely on their hero wind up having their base fall down around them before they can become uber. Those that click the Merc buttons everytime they have 350 gold up, or build millions of towers everywhere, can lose lategame when heroes become so strong. So you have to be somewhat versatile and get items, but also be willing to save your base with some mercs, repair towers, etc.


That said, I do like the upgrade better than recipes because many recipes are counterintuitive. Anyone can figure out that an upgraded item will result in more of the same stuff found in that item. Whereas recipes are not nearly so straight forward, which can be good or bad. usually bad.

[FurionII]

Hey DarnYak, I sent you a pm about this, but maybe you didn't get it. I was wondering how you triggered the outpost building system.

[DarnYak]

Hey DarnYak, I sent you a pm about this, but maybe you didn't get it. I was wondering how you triggered the outpost building system.

Alright, now that i've finally opened up the map editor (been working on graphics this past week), i can answer.

First, all outpost buildings use the scout tower pathing map. At map startup, they get surrounded by a box of pathing blockers (offsets are 128 from the center of the building for large pathing blockers). This is to prevent a bug where the building can't be rebuilt due to a unit being more on top of the outpost. It can still happen under limited circumstances, but it usualy works out now (it is an issue i need to address).

When the outpost dies, a circle is created. This generaly has no problems. Circle sells the outpost (either a dummy unit or item, I don't remember, I abuse lots of shop selling stuff in eota). Once sold, the circle is removed from game, an undead worker is created for red/blue and ordered to build at the spot (worker has to be in the undead race becuase that triggers the auto build feature of undead). I believe the builder can build every single outpost type.

DarnYak

[FurionII]

Thanks a lot DarnYak, I know what a big deal it is to foray into the world editor what with the long loading time for Eota. I actually managed to reverse engineer your system after wrestling with it for a while, though I used persistent circles with town hall-size pathing maps that hide until needed again. I have the same building bug as you, but it almost never happens now, same as on Eota also.

One thing I haven't figured out though is how you make the correct dummy item/unit for each race show up on the circles' menu, where it only shows the one for your race and not for the other team. I tried using a "if player selects circle, remove opposite race unit" but it is not quite instantaneous, so you can see the other race's unit for a split second.

Also, I am not quite sure what you mean by the undead auto-build ability. I tried looking it up and couldn't find anything.

[DarnYak]

One thing I haven't figured out though is how you make the correct dummy item/unit for each race show up on the circles' menu, where it only shows the one for your race and not for the other team. I tried using a "if player selects circle, remove opposite race unit" but it is not quite instantaneous, so you can see the other race's unit for a split second.

It only shows one generic tooltip as far as I'm aware, and then goes through an "if race = human, buid human outpost, if race = orc, build orc outpost etc."

Also, I am not quite sure what you mean by the undead auto-build ability. I tried looking it up and couldn't find anything.

Play a melee game with undead. The peon walks to the spot, starts the building, and walks away. Where as night elves require a wisp and human/orc require peons there to build it

DarnYak

[FurionII]

Oh oh, I'm dumb! I *just* figured out what you meant before I saw your post, the whole summoning vs constructing thing. Good stuff. And oh yes, that is right about the icon, I seemed to remember a town hall showing for high elf and corrupted ancient showing for creep but I think now that you said that that it is the town hall (edit: fixed) for both. Thanks Yak! Have a great week!

Edit: I don't know where the memory of the corrupted ancient icon came from.