What was your point in that post?
Rue is a better PK'er then Fenris, who isnt so hot anymore, he dosent nuke as high, and hamstring+dream run are slightly better then the move speed aura, but he dosent have utility like other auras and fear.. or as good tanking.
Also why are you comparing Bane to Rue? Bane is a pushing/siege Hero, Rue isnt. Its like comparing BP or Tact VS harpy? AM?
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BLUEPOWERVAN
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Shadow.M4L
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Hammel
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Shad, he is in the clan on East, and I suppose they know how to play 
. However I agree with you, I dont think he is great either..., now on Rue and Bane:
Rue's Mortal Strike hits when he is in range, Bane's Caustic Breath doesnt when the enemy runs, even when you start at melee range... Bane sucks in finishing heroes because he is such a slowpoke, Rue just takes his time running after the enemy and uses Mortal Strike when it has cooled down. Rue also doesnt need to run around mobs, he is nearly as much of a tank as bane, he just lacks Acid Sheath (no damage from melee ftw), but that doesnt matter too much... even if comparing those 2 (Bane is a Siege/pushing hero, Rue is a hero-killer/tactical hero), Rue wins...
. However I agree with you, I dont think he is great either..., now on Rue and Bane:Rue's Mortal Strike hits when he is in range, Bane's Caustic Breath doesnt when the enemy runs, even when you start at melee range... Bane sucks in finishing heroes because he is such a slowpoke, Rue just takes his time running after the enemy and uses Mortal Strike when it has cooled down. Rue also doesnt need to run around mobs, he is nearly as much of a tank as bane, he just lacks Acid Sheath (no damage from melee ftw), but that doesnt matter too much... even if comparing those 2 (Bane is a Siege/pushing hero, Rue is a hero-killer/tactical hero), Rue wins...
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Shadow.M4L
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@ham well it just looks like blue isnt as good as you expect him to be.
And a Siege Hero isnt strong when he is confrontated with an enemy hero killer. Atleast thats how i look at this.
Also this proves to me that he:
1. Played agains the noobish pc
2. played alone without a pc
3. played agains public starters
Because i dont think that he would say this if he played inhouse.
Also its not offended, but eh it just looks weird to me if a pro player would say such things.
And a Siege Hero isnt strong when he is confrontated with an enemy hero killer. Atleast thats how i look at this.
Also this proves to me that he:
1. Played agains the noobish pc
2. played alone without a pc
3. played agains public starters
Because i dont think that he would say this if he played inhouse.
Also its not offended, but eh it just looks weird to me if a pro player would say such things.
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BLUEPOWERVAN
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Meh, I will.BLUEPOWERVAN wrote:Heh, I am not going to enter into some forum debate about my EotA skill level.
First of all I have played with almost everyone here and I must say if I had to choose my team Blue would be picked above both H4mm3l and Shadow.M4L. You two may be better at the map but from what I have seen he understands it better, fakes his arrogance/ignorance, and is probably more cooperative as well.
Now Shadow since you seemed to chime into this conversation to add your unique touch of stupidty, lets look at what you have to say.
That has to be one of the weakest arguements I have ever seen. Here people are trying to talk about actually balance and what not and you through in the comment which could possibly mean the least in terms of helping balance. I doubt playing in a game with people he doesn't know whose skill varies from suck to good (If Sanj or Cross is present) will bring about a good representation on a heroes effectiveness.Shadow.M4L wrote:i say, play agains our clan and use reaver. then you will see HOW good it is."
If the hardest heroes to kill in the game aren't strong against hero killers, then wouldn't the game be won be Infiltrator and Fenris? Maybe there is a reason Blue had mentioned Bane's high HP and 80% damage reduction? Maybe just maybe, the hardest heroes to kill actually do put up a fight against hero killers.Shadow.M4L wrote:And a Siege Hero isnt strong when he is confrontated with an enemy hero killer. Atleast thats how i look at this.
Oh this is cute, he is only trying to make his point and you find the need to throw out a useless insult. Congratulations on proving yet again why this forum continues to be a waste of space. Besides, number one and three are probably better than playing against the likes of you or most the clan members anyway.Shadow.M4L wrote:Also this proves to me that he:
1. Played agains the noobish pc
2. played alone without a pc
3. played agains public starters
Since you were so keen on putting in your useless information to this debate, why don't you try and actually be of some help? Why does the hero with the strongest AoE damage spell in the game (which just got buffed in size), a very nice unit movement/attack speed buff, one of the best tanking and protective spells in the game, an ult which helps demolish bases so much faster with it's -armor, a single target stun, and an AoE stun seem to suck? Will be curious to see if you actually find out an answer on your own or ask the bandwagon you jumped on without any thought.
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Shadow.M4L
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People get angry so fast about nothing funny to see^^
Well lets comment it anyway...
1. Well i had done map making also, not as good as eota did but i encountered many "bad players" that keept playing this hero and sayd make it stronger weaker.
So i did it, one day an other player laid his hands on it and sayd it was way to strong/weak.
So now you wonder why i sayd this but normal persons dont understand how i think anyways, but thats mostly because they was raised under normal circumstances
I missjugded Blue in your eyes and stamp him as newb, thats it. But yeah opionions that arnt the same as yours are stupid...
2. Thats just stupid^^
A team wins by teamwork, and not because they have one or two good heros.
3. yep judging from one to the mass of people, also realy good.
I shouldnt continue talking with a person that acts immature like me but eh^^
Never sayd that also, funny to you didnt quoted that^^
All in all that was pretty weak from you.
You acted the same way as i did, but you had some more english knowdelgde on your side.
Well not the same way as me, caus that would be stupid^^
Well lets comment it anyway...
1. Well i had done map making also, not as good as eota did but i encountered many "bad players" that keept playing this hero and sayd make it stronger weaker.
So i did it, one day an other player laid his hands on it and sayd it was way to strong/weak.
So now you wonder why i sayd this but normal persons dont understand how i think anyways, but thats mostly because they was raised under normal circumstances
I missjugded Blue in your eyes and stamp him as newb, thats it. But yeah opionions that arnt the same as yours are stupid...
2. Thats just stupid^^
A team wins by teamwork, and not because they have one or two good heros.
3. yep judging from one to the mass of people, also realy good.
I shouldnt continue talking with a person that acts immature like me but eh^^
Never sayd that also, funny to you didnt quoted that^^
All in all that was pretty weak from you.
You acted the same way as i did, but you had some more english knowdelgde on your side.
Well not the same way as me, caus that would be stupid^^
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Tehw00tz
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Try to keep ontopic please.
Also, nice touch on making mockery stop Corona.
Also, nice touch on making mockery stop Corona.
Last edited by Tehw00tz on June 16th, 2007, 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ДɷϣRØLEɷӟP
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BLUEPOWERVAN
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Why are you making some huge post about judging people, and the value of a meaningful perspective? Didn't you just try to spearhead some bandwagon criticizing my EotA skill and ability to play? When you have never seen me play? 
Mills defends me, because he has actually played with me. You talk about differing opinions, and their relative value. You tell me, what is the relative value of a completely uninformed opinion versus a well informed one?
Anyhow, there is a lot to be said about balance for the new map and new race. Some ud skills are very very good and some are very weak.
Mills defends me, because he has actually played with me. You talk about differing opinions, and their relative value. You tell me, what is the relative value of a completely uninformed opinion versus a well informed one?
Anyhow, there is a lot to be said about balance for the new map and new race. Some ud skills are very very good and some are very weak.
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Shadow.M4L
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the last post on this...
@blue i never sayd something to you directly in my post atleast i didnt meaned it like that. (not in the post before that big one)
And yes you are right i missjugded you, that is part of my personality.
I didnt knew you and never saw you, also i saw several post of you and jugded you by this.
Some people think its okay others dont, if people think the same way about me i just dont care.
Why? Because its just 1 person on a forum where you can fake your personality how you want.
Which i dont do... but eh who would believe me after saying this
So i take the "noobish" part back, and i will jugde you after seeing some replays or fighting you ingame~
@blue i never sayd something to you directly in my post atleast i didnt meaned it like that. (not in the post before that big one)
And yes you are right i missjugded you, that is part of my personality.
I didnt knew you and never saw you, also i saw several post of you and jugded you by this.
Some people think its okay others dont, if people think the same way about me i just dont care.
Why? Because its just 1 person on a forum where you can fake your personality how you want.
Which i dont do... but eh who would believe me after saying this
So i take the "noobish" part back, and i will jugde you after seeing some replays or fighting you ingame~
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Dekar
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Now a complete different topic: Defiler
Most of his skills seem to be really imba to me:
Devouring plagues on MG will heal him for 40 hp per second + mana + he can cast it on other heros at the same time. Not to forget that this is damage to the affected heroes.
Blight deals 50+ damage per second and has an aoe large enough to hit a whole outpost and grants 50% faster attack. Thats even better than Icespinners Blizzard ulti.
His chainplague nuke does not only nuke, but can kill the ranged part of a creepwave without big int boosts from items. DW has at least a limited AoE and I think he needs a little bit more item help ( cant really remember that though, just a feeling ).
Corpse Trap weakens the melee units enough to get killed by his nuke and may rival Infs explosives - as an Innate. Far too strong compared to Innates like the crappy undeads from AM.
His ulti sometimes halfes the max hp of low str heroes.
It just dont like the fact that every single skill of him is really devasting...
Most of his skills seem to be really imba to me:
Devouring plagues on MG will heal him for 40 hp per second + mana + he can cast it on other heros at the same time. Not to forget that this is damage to the affected heroes.
Blight deals 50+ damage per second and has an aoe large enough to hit a whole outpost and grants 50% faster attack. Thats even better than Icespinners Blizzard ulti.
His chainplague nuke does not only nuke, but can kill the ranged part of a creepwave without big int boosts from items. DW has at least a limited AoE and I think he needs a little bit more item help ( cant really remember that though, just a feeling ).
Corpse Trap weakens the melee units enough to get killed by his nuke and may rival Infs explosives - as an Innate. Far too strong compared to Innates like the crappy undeads from AM.
His ulti sometimes halfes the max hp of low str heroes.
It just dont like the fact that every single skill of him is really devasting...
<EotA@Azeroth> YAKS GO MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Dekar: the ultimate ocean themed hero should buff and depend on spawn waves!
DarnYak: why is that
Dekar: WAVES
Dekar:
DarnYak: i was afraid that was the answer
Dekar: the ultimate ocean themed hero should buff and depend on spawn waves!
DarnYak: why is that
Dekar: WAVES
Dekar:
DarnYak: i was afraid that was the answer
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jamn455
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Don't make me come over to where you guys play and own you guys. Fuck, bluepowervan is a cool guy that actually still gets on and hosts EotA all the time. I invited him not because of that but he seemed to have a great understanding about the game. He wasnt an asshole(believe me I know when i see one). He wasnt a guy that had to annoy me to get into the clan because I knew whenever I saw him in the clan channel i would invite him in for a reason.
You guys are all bitching about other heroes, well noone really knows how to counter some of the new heroes right now, they are new and it will take some getting used to until we can know how to neutralize them so dont say that every hero is ggkthx rigged and shit like that. People used to say that about str fenris and he isnt used alot anymore. People even killed the unbeatable 1.08 bp and am with imba FotD and Mind Fog.
So what I say about this is alright, dont cry about imbalances and stuff because the game is new, get used to it, and make new strategies to take everything in hand.
Yak is working on getting everything balanced, and everyone talking about how every hero is imbalanced isnt going to help him since he doesnt know who or who not to trust about balance issues.
The only move I see that needs to be concerned is Corona. I would rather him deal alot of damage over a low amount of time than a low amount over a giant amount of time.
You guys are all bitching about other heroes, well noone really knows how to counter some of the new heroes right now, they are new and it will take some getting used to until we can know how to neutralize them so dont say that every hero is ggkthx rigged and shit like that. People used to say that about str fenris and he isnt used alot anymore. People even killed the unbeatable 1.08 bp and am with imba FotD and Mind Fog.
So what I say about this is alright, dont cry about imbalances and stuff because the game is new, get used to it, and make new strategies to take everything in hand.
Yak is working on getting everything balanced, and everyone talking about how every hero is imbalanced isnt going to help him since he doesnt know who or who not to trust about balance issues.
The only move I see that needs to be concerned is Corona. I would rather him deal alot of damage over a low amount of time than a low amount over a giant amount of time.
Line 'em up.
"Black people don't play Mega Man, they play with guns or some shit." - Ion
"If it takes two whole days for a giraffe, you know that giraffe is a tall one." - Wade Phillips
"Black people don't play Mega Man, they play with guns or some shit." - Ion
"If it takes two whole days for a giraffe, you know that giraffe is a tall one." - Wade Phillips
Ive never actually played with Blue, wich is strange cause I see him whenever Im on, anyway now I couold stand pubs (I dislike 1.10 compared to the tests) maybe I will.
That said.
Defiler is strong, Yak said he might nerf him, but seems to have decided against it. I find that Blight is OP, its like a mini Scarab Ult without the regen but with good AoE damage to buildings, ala IS ult, so like 2 ults combined, watered downa tad
Ummm, Bane is a pretty ok hero, he isnt as much of a powerhouse compared to other Creep heroes IMO, but hes a LOT better in 1.11 then he was when he was first added, Charge is good, acid breath does sick damage, and his ult is nice too. Personally I dislike acid sheath, but thats personal preference.
However Rue > Bane IMO still.
Tox sticking it to the euroes again ~~ (rofl)
That said.
Defiler is strong, Yak said he might nerf him, but seems to have decided against it. I find that Blight is OP, its like a mini Scarab Ult without the regen but with good AoE damage to buildings, ala IS ult, so like 2 ults combined, watered downa tad
Ummm, Bane is a pretty ok hero, he isnt as much of a powerhouse compared to other Creep heroes IMO, but hes a LOT better in 1.11 then he was when he was first added, Charge is good, acid breath does sick damage, and his ult is nice too. Personally I dislike acid sheath, but thats personal preference.
However Rue > Bane IMO still.
Tox sticking it to the euroes again ~~ (rofl)
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Discombobulator
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Rue's damage aura sucks.
At level 45 it will do 15 damage/second. At that level it takes about a minute to deal 500 damage to a hero. It's pretty pathetic for spawns, too, at the level when pretty much every AoE hero is able to kill a wave of spawns in one or two nukes he must hand around with his aura for at least 30 seconds. It may be useful before level 15 to stop enemy heroes from regenerating health, but that isn't much of a plus.
At level 45 it will do 15 damage/second. At that level it takes about a minute to deal 500 damage to a hero. It's pretty pathetic for spawns, too, at the level when pretty much every AoE hero is able to kill a wave of spawns in one or two nukes he must hand around with his aura for at least 30 seconds. It may be useful before level 15 to stop enemy heroes from regenerating health, but that isn't much of a plus.
I'm this forum's MVP.
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Hammel
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If it was as powerful as other abilities by that point, it would be way too imba... because of the other auras available, the AoE, the lack of a mana cost AND SO ON AND ON AND ON... it SEEMS like you forgot it isnt a skill for itself...
When comparing it to DS' totems, Fire Nova Totem also doesnt do THAT much damage, it's AoE and the delay are pathetic and you need to be at melee range (also it costs mana, unlike the aura)... still (nearly?) noone says it is too weak (compared to Rue's auras)...
(The point of this post: I dont think it is too weak, but that is just my personal opinion, and some reasons are stated above...)
When comparing it to DS' totems, Fire Nova Totem also doesnt do THAT much damage, it's AoE and the delay are pathetic and you need to be at melee range (also it costs mana, unlike the aura)... still (nearly?) noone says it is too weak (compared to Rue's auras)...
(The point of this post: I dont think it is too weak, but that is just my personal opinion, and some reasons are stated above...)
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Hammel
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Alright, let's play a bit with numbers... say, it does 15 damage per second, okay? Without much influence by items, so lets leave them out... it does not cost mana at all, too...
Later on, mass battles are more and more important, and pushes easily consist of 30 units... due to the large AoE, all of them get hit... 450 total damage per second...
Now, let's compare it with Holy Strike... I see it deal ~~ 4000 damage... CD is... 10 seconds? That makes 400 damage per second... ~12% less, and I suppose the DW uses a few items (not enough to 1 hit kill) and HS is a skill of its own...
YES, HS may be better since it deals damage in one moment, is focused more and kills later on... I may also be wrong on the numbers (I am pretty much for sure since I havent played DW in 1.11), but in the end, it should balance out...
HS deals more damage than I mentioned, probably has a longer CD, but on the other hand pushes may very well be >30 units, making Frailty more useful... together with Auras being more versatile, for free, not needing money/items to be efficient (but also earning a bit less), it should be okay...
Btw, on farming gold with the aura: 15 damage is about the damage a furbolg actually deals... so every second you hit every unit in the battle for average spawnie dmg... which is quite much, like a free attack on everyone every 3 or 4 seconds...
Ohh, can someone check it with correct/better values to find out whether Frailty is actually too strong?
P.S.: In earlier test versions, the other auras but Celerity were considered useless Oo.
Later on, mass battles are more and more important, and pushes easily consist of 30 units... due to the large AoE, all of them get hit... 450 total damage per second...
Now, let's compare it with Holy Strike... I see it deal ~~ 4000 damage... CD is... 10 seconds? That makes 400 damage per second... ~12% less, and I suppose the DW uses a few items (not enough to 1 hit kill) and HS is a skill of its own...
YES, HS may be better since it deals damage in one moment, is focused more and kills later on... I may also be wrong on the numbers (I am pretty much for sure since I havent played DW in 1.11), but in the end, it should balance out...
HS deals more damage than I mentioned, probably has a longer CD, but on the other hand pushes may very well be >30 units, making Frailty more useful... together with Auras being more versatile, for free, not needing money/items to be efficient (but also earning a bit less), it should be okay...
Btw, on farming gold with the aura: 15 damage is about the damage a furbolg actually deals... so every second you hit every unit in the battle for average spawnie dmg... which is quite much, like a free attack on everyone every 3 or 4 seconds...
Ohh, can someone check it with correct/better values to find out whether Frailty is actually too strong?
P.S.: In earlier test versions, the other auras but Celerity were considered useless Oo.
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jamn455
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Well the damage aura can have no influence from items other than tomes of power since its multiplier is due to your level hammel.
Line 'em up.
"Black people don't play Mega Man, they play with guns or some shit." - Ion
"If it takes two whole days for a giraffe, you know that giraffe is a tall one." - Wade Phillips
"Black people don't play Mega Man, they play with guns or some shit." - Ion
"If it takes two whole days for a giraffe, you know that giraffe is a tall one." - Wade Phillips
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BLUEPOWERVAN
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Honestly, I played a lot of sorrow liege recently, in order to see if I couldn't use some tricks to make the most of his skillset.
I now believe he is a pretty good hero, with only mild increases if anything. Doesn't really change what I said about the skills I complained of -- the auras and fear have limited upgrade value.
But, I discovered his ult can be quite strong. His floating bases move, and are permanent. Therefore, they are very useful for fortifying middle sections of lane. If you are diligent, you can mass them over time, basically long term besieging a base by bottling the spawn waves up... then move them in and use reinforcements to seal the deal.
The comparison to dw is ludicrous, and I'm really not sure the skill should be balanced around the potential plus damage from a fearsome evocation glove wielding sorrow liege. I DONT THINK THE DAMAGE AURA SHOULD BE INCREASED. The conclusion was simply that sorrow liege is not an aoe hero.
Mostly I think the aura needs slight buffs to magic/physical damage reduction. (evocation is already strong situationally, damage and speed are useful, if not really worth upgrading for, and the others are a tad weak, would like to see physical damage reduction move to 35, and magic to 40)
I think fear skill ups, instead of longer fear times, should result in like -cooldown (1sec or so), and secondary effects to the afflicted (-2 to -10 armour, -5 to -15% movement speed)
But really, its just every other undead hero that is more in need of attention. Emberwraith (altogether), Oracle (healing), Lich (altogether? bugged healing), Martyr damage, neph (cds obviously), and I don't really have an axe to grind with the shaman.
I now believe he is a pretty good hero, with only mild increases if anything. Doesn't really change what I said about the skills I complained of -- the auras and fear have limited upgrade value.
But, I discovered his ult can be quite strong. His floating bases move, and are permanent. Therefore, they are very useful for fortifying middle sections of lane. If you are diligent, you can mass them over time, basically long term besieging a base by bottling the spawn waves up... then move them in and use reinforcements to seal the deal.
The comparison to dw is ludicrous, and I'm really not sure the skill should be balanced around the potential plus damage from a fearsome evocation glove wielding sorrow liege. I DONT THINK THE DAMAGE AURA SHOULD BE INCREASED. The conclusion was simply that sorrow liege is not an aoe hero.
Mostly I think the aura needs slight buffs to magic/physical damage reduction. (evocation is already strong situationally, damage and speed are useful, if not really worth upgrading for, and the others are a tad weak, would like to see physical damage reduction move to 35, and magic to 40)
I think fear skill ups, instead of longer fear times, should result in like -cooldown (1sec or so), and secondary effects to the afflicted (-2 to -10 armour, -5 to -15% movement speed)
But really, its just every other undead hero that is more in need of attention. Emberwraith (altogether), Oracle (healing), Lich (altogether? bugged healing), Martyr damage, neph (cds obviously), and I don't really have an axe to grind with the shaman.