EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

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EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#1 Post by DarnYak »

Mostly bugfixes, next version I intend to focus on one more (possibly last) balance pass.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#2 Post by watermelon »

Last Updated: 9/17/13

9/14/13
- Tooltips stuff
- Crash

9/13/13
- Ravenous Dive interrupt

9/10/13
- Geyser height bug

Bugs
  • Initial push of impale doesn't interrupt
  • Ravenous Dive doesn't interrupt while pushing.
  • Shrines don't work
  • Dream Run is broken.
  • Fix Panda Dash
  • Fix Crash for Strength (and I would assume Agi too) - hero can move during the dash.
  • Meteor Swarm doesn't stun non-hero units. Stun isn't always applied with damage. I think it has a level 10 stun against heroes, when it should be less.
  • RK's catapult rune can throw units outside of the map.
  • I could build a command tower even though my hero was at level 19.
  • After the game ends in VF, the font alert can remove the black screen.
  • Zealot's Cowl doesn't work.
  • Geyser doesn't always make the units fall down properly; units can get stuck at a high height.
AI
  • Blue AI in Kedge often go down left instead of defending a base properly
Tooltips
  • Meteor Swarm -s doesn't match tooltip's.
  • Lightning Tether could be more explicit in saying that it can be cast on heroes (both allies and enemies)
  • Blitz mentions Level 1.
Reminders
  • Add kill messages when playing against a full AI team
  • Check AI unstuck code.
  • Check if Eido Stump still crashes in this version.
Replays
Here are some replays that may or may not be interesting for bots to download. From g5.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#3 Post by Executor »

This information is for the previous version, and I'm not sure if some were fixed or not.

Bugs or exploits:
  • Defiler AI interrupts his heal early.
  • High Oracle's Zen Shot doesn't interrupt Rune Knight's ultimate, which makes it look like it originated from nothing.
  • I've seen Acid Reaver pull heroes to his main base by teleporting while using Impale. This can lead to easy hero kills and font battle wins.
  • I've seen some font heroes remain defending the outer bases instead of attacking the enemy base. I'm not sure if that is intended.
Some balance concerns I have:
  • Circlet of Mana's teleportation seems overpowered when used to heal at main base. I know that Divine Wizard's Displacement Field can undo the teleport before activating its own teleport.
  • Aeromancess's ultimate seems overpowered due to the combination of size, duration, cooldown, and damage to both health and mana. This is especially noticeable when used in font battles or defending the main base at Verdant Falls.
  • Behemoth's Maw of Death seems overpowered (gold earning potential, clears waves of units, and can damage multiple buildings), but maybe I'm overestimating its potential.
  • I think stacking miasma can be overpowered, especially when talented and considering that it causes miss chance.
  • Harpy is overpowered in too many ways:
    • Flying is more mobile than ground.
    • Flying units cannot be targeted by many abilities.
    • Blade rain is overpowered when considering damage, duration, talented miss chance, and easy gold earning from clearing entire waves of units.
    • Level 6 Swoop becomes undodgeable deathblow, especially with an item advantage from gold farmed with blade rain.
    • Swoop gives too much mobility (fountain, escape, lane control, and faster farming), but I guess that is equivalent to Master of the Hunt's dreamrun.
Many heroes' abilities diminish the value of physical attacks such as applying "chance to miss" debuffs. This makes the game seem more spell dependant. I can think of a few heroes with high physical attack potential (High Oracle, Mystic Swashbuckler, Tactician). What I'm mostly thinking is that there should be something that allows for "True Strike" (attacks can't miss) instead of constantly spending on dispells, which also takes up a slot. Perhaps it can be implemented through combining a gem and helm. It all depends on what you want though.

Edit: I also wonder if Dragonscale Mask's 40% magic damage reduction is too good of a deal.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#4 Post by Jouven »

Edit#2

AC ultimate orbiting wisp.
Stuff that loads at the time of use and makes the game stutter/lag like the stuns. SB incinerate does trigger this load too, btw thx for adding the stun.

I don't know if you have any plans for dw, but man he sucks, his main spell costs a shiton of mana and the area is small, I would add the cd is a little long but maybe is because the area is small and makes me want to use it again fast to finish what's always left. After how I did play him yesterday I realize that the only way to play him, IMO, is with holy strike + energy drain because his mana goes down so fast, and then there is the ultimate which is a short range, I think that's ok for the dmg it does but damn the thing costs 200 mana coupled with the mana problem I found myself unable to use it sometimes.
And then there is IS ice lance range > dw ulti range, coupled with web = GG, damn that moment destroyed my faith in dw. I think here the issue is that most of the ranged castes can laugh at dw ultimate just because most if not all have ranged spell/attacks and dw isn't specially fast in the movement department.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#5 Post by DarnYak »

Hey wm, what was the list of spells the AI isn't casting like impale? I suspect they all have the same base spell (which chili also has) but i'm not 100% and need to confirm.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#6 Post by Executor »

Scarab's Ultimate seems overpowered...I think it is better than having invincibility. I've seen tanks with multiple shields easily die to it. The AI isn't smart enough to stop attacking while the ultimate is active either. There are heroes with abilities that are channeled or just take time to occur such as the ultimates of many heroes. There is much more risk to cast those ultimates with Scarab nearby.

Edit: On second thought, maybe it is just the max level of the ultimate that seemed too strong. Also, I saw Bane use impale in the beginning of a game but then switch to charge.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#7 Post by DarnYak »

Just a reminder: If you want balance changes, now is the time to comment. My goal is to wrap things up with EotA1 as soon as possible.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#8 Post by watermelon »

I'll try to keep all my balancing comments in this post.

Balance Comments
  • In general, flyers should be nerfed because they're strong heroes and flying offers a lot of benefits.
  • Harpy: I think her evasion hack is too strong. I would rather have the evasion hack scale up if she moves longer, kind of like the opposite of Ember's smoke.
    Blade Rain seems too spammable for something that isn't easy to counter. I would argue for a longer cooldown. I think the bleed duration could be lowered a bit since the rain itself can last for a while.
    I agree with Executor's opinion on Swoop. Later level swoops are very accurate due to the speed. I think the distance traveled could be reduced.
  • Garg is just annoying. Innate is very spammable, long stun, and not easy to counter if using a melee hero.
    I have some misgivings about Petrify since it's still pretty strong if Garg gangs up on a hero with allies, but it might not need to be adjusted.
    I don't like the mechanic of Ravenous Dive in being strong or useless.
  • Bane: Main problem is too much stuns.
    Impale's stun duration feels kind of ridiculous since it already disables units when used along with putting them right next to Bane where he can do more stuns.
    I don't think Charge's stun duration should scale in regards to how many stuns Bane already has.
  • CS: Doesn't really do that well early-game where PKing is usually more important. I would say it's mostly due to lack of solid damage and not enough mobility or holds to chase a target. In order of usefulness: Str > Int > Agi
  • Scarab: I dislike his ult, and I'm not sure number tweaks will make me feel any different. One of my concern is that both active and effect durations are infuriatingly long with later levels. It's also annoying to not be able to tell that your hero is under the effects of the ult since there's no visual indicator. It's not always easy to see Scarab activating the effect too.
    I feel that Smite is a bit more spammy than it should be in terms of cooldown, but I guess it's only a hero nuke.
  • SB: Not fun to use in the beginning. I think he should at least start out with full mana, even though having 0 mana makes it more apparent that he recovers mana differently. He isn't useless late-game though.
  • DW: Similar reasons to Jou's. He probably could do with a bit more damage.
  • Lich: It just feels lacking in a way since it doesn't really excel at any job it's supposed to be doing. It looks like it should be offensive but it doesn't really have anything strong in pushing lanes by itself or sieging with a shoddy AoE. The nuke can be strong late-game but only if stacking items like a selfish player; it's not great by itself without ethereal support and doesn't seem to do much early-game.
    I dislike that Bonestorm often makes it a nuisance to move around.
  • Fenny: Hamstring's cooldown being less than its duration seems too strong, even if it can be countered by a heal.
  • Tree: I still don't like how Timbercurse effectively neuters towers, but I guess you would just say something like "omg, just counter with a dispel." What's more annoying is Blizz's stupid buff overwriting.
    I kind of worry about Forest Lord's slow which no one seems to take advantage of since pixies. However, the slow is probably more useful on ganging up on an enemy hero since it doesn't let them leave Tree's range. I don't think a passive slow should be that strong. Rubber Tree sucks, even though it's funny. Mana Willow feels too limited in that Tree only gets mana from enemies.
  • AA: Familiar is really only useful for the random roots it may throw out; late-game, it feels like a liability since it gets easy to kill off. It would be nice if casting the spell while it was alive healed it or did something more useful than just making it blink to AA.
  • Storm: Is Heal Rain a heal or just rain? I mostly think it's the latter. It's unwieldy to use since Storm mostly seems to be about moving around, and the heal itself isn't too noteworthy. I would say that spawns would usually get killed off faster than the rain could save them.
  • Eido: Spore Cloud feels pretty strong by disturbing enemy spawns a lot with the additional benefit of doing other mumbo jumbo.
  • I have the feeling that shields are generally much more useful than single target heals like Ethereal Heal or Cure Wounds. It's also due to the weird mechanic that shields can heal heroes if they take damage that would normally kill them. Very noticeable with Fire Panda's invulnerable shield.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#9 Post by DarnYak »

Also: Trying Friday games with RoW players again.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#10 Post by Executor »

Crest Witch seems overpowered. Tidal Curse and Drown become much more dangerous when combined with the large amount of crowd controls in the game. You can also buy nets from the goblin shop or anti-magic potion from the item shop. Rogue wave is pretty good for damage, clearing waves of units, and farming gold but not as much as blade rain or maw of death i think. Coral Sanctum lags my computer.

On the other hand, maybe I can dispell the curse while netted or stunned and use nets against anti-magic shell? I don't know...I guess I should use consumables more.

Edit: Forgot to mention you can also root with Dryad's Gift
Last edited by Executor on September 14th, 2013, 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#11 Post by Scheba »

As promised, I had a look at the different upgrades to Banners.
Working: Rune Knight, Swashbuckler, Time Cleric, Arcane Archer, Aeromancess, Creep heroes, Mercenary heroes, Undead heroes, Fel Horde heroes
Blazing Priest seems to always apply level 1 upgrade regardless of Banner level (I think it deals 4 damage per second).
Unsure: Infiltrator (unlike Mines, exploding Banners don't deal friendly fire damage, so testing is difficult to do alone), Divine Wizard, Soul Burner (the burning orbs disappeared after about 5 minutes, I don't think this is intended; I couldn't upgrade the same Banners again)

Other things I noticed:
  • I think I saw AI Tactician use Neutralize on invulnerable buildings
  • according to -s, Ignite does not receive evocation damage bonuses
  • -s doesn't show values for Stormspire: mana gained (the skill tooltip doesn't show this either), damage dealt
  • neither -s nor the skill tooltip gives any information about the healing amount or damage dealt by Static Charge
  • there is still no chat command for i mode

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#12 Post by Jouven »

Playing ember yesterday I saw him "ignoring pathing", sometimes when I tped to a base he would appear in the middle of the building, but he could come out.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#13 Post by Scheba »

I played a test game as Arcane Mistress today, to see what else she can do besides being a cornerstone for ethereal nuke teams.
Then I noticed that not every enemy that I hit with my Black Arrows actually exploded on death. It seems that Black Arrow charges are only applied to standard army units - not spawn tower units, not mercenaries, not summoned units, not heroes. Is this intentional? If so, it should probably be mentioned in the skill tooltip.

In other news, Brainlust still only applies level 1 healing amount regardless of skill level.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#14 Post by watermelon »

Spells that may be broken from trying to get the level of the ability from the buff:
  • Brainlust
  • Spore Cloud's evocation damage reduction
  • Rue's auras, particularly magicdamage reduction and evocation
  • Heart of Mountain - stuff from the talent
  • Empower
  • HealFactor stuff
  • Polarize
  • Acid Sheath weapon's debuff
  • Exhaustion
  • Royal Guard
  • Neph's Close Wounds - Note, it doesn't use a buff anymore
  • Tempest and Ebb and Flow Combo
Yak's Edit: Struck out stuff that was working fine.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#15 Post by Executor »

Behemoth's anchor + miasma's miss chance seems a bit strong, but I guess teamwork can counter it. Combine anchor with High Oracle's geyser and I think you might have some quick and easy kills or heavy damage. Just something to think about.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#16 Post by Scheba »

I tested Black Arrow again. It leaves charges on standard army units and abominations, but not tormented spirits, meat wagons or frost wyrms. As we already suspected yesterday, it really seems to depend on whether the units leave corpses or not.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#17 Post by Jouven »

Replay of yesterday's game which crashed, for me first, then for wm and scheba, and then short and qod left (they didn't crash), many cases of the enemy ai heroes messing/ignoring with the pathing.
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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#18 Post by DarnYak »

Note to self: Gens to 0 gold, but add food cost to base gens.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#19 Post by watermelon »

I hope you add an option to make gens self-destruct then.

Also, there's a small bug in which a late voter can make the message "Votes (0 Left)" show up during the hero selection time.

EDIT:
Fullskills game where Chili was broken didn't have Tony casting Slice or Bane casting Impale. There was also a lack of Nausea.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#20 Post by Executor »

Last game I played, Team 1 Rune Knight AI refused to place his obelisk tower even though he was walking near the bottom obelisk location within immediate placement. I think around half of the time Team 1 AI will not take the bottom obelisk.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#21 Post by DarnYak »

I feel incredibly stupid asking this but I'd rather ask then miss something.

One of the broken buffs is "Radiant Surge", which I have no idea where its from. Signs indicate its from BP, but I can't figure out where. It's suppose to increase healing taken. It uses the sanctuary graphic (same as Stonegaze).

There's a reasonable chance its leftover from an unimplemented spell/talent idea, but I'm asking to double check.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#22 Post by watermelon »

I don't remember that spell at all. I can only think of Sacred Bulwark, which probably isn't it, but there doesn't seem to be any other used spell in EotA that increases healing taken.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#23 Post by Executor »

Mana Ward (Shield) is a must have item since you can apply the shield and sell the item and repeat. Last game I played at Stormwail Peak, the enemy AI got stuck at the top and bottom bases with gold mines. They eventually had to teleport to another base to defend it.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#24 Post by DarnYak »

An update on the weird spellcasting:

I changed Impale and Slice's base order to something else. I have a game where Chili is broken, but Impale/Slice are getting spammed like they're suppose to. So somehow the game has a high chance to break with a trigger order of carrionswarm will get ignored, but a player casting it works or the ai's built in autocast behavior works.

From an older thread:
•Maw only gets one charge for digesting/spitting regardless of number of units devoured (I think I observed getting two charges once but couldn't reproduce it)
This seemed to work fine when I tested it, but it could use a bit of clarifying. Assume you eat 3 units. This gives you 3 corpses to spit, but there's a delay between spits (1.667 seconds) - the mana number indicates the number currently available for instantly casting, but here its one at a time. So if you spit only one, and wait 2 seconds it should jump back up to 1, for a total of 3 casts. It also leaves the most recent order in a queue for when it refills, so if you click twice it'll cast immediately upon the second becoming available. If it still appears broke with this clarification, please let me know.

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Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14g6 Download

#25 Post by watermelon »

EotA just seems to have some weird cases when spellcasting doesn't seem to work.
In one of my fullskills test games, Impale casting was broken. Geyser was never casted either. Also, Zen Shot failed to banish my hero while banishing a non-hero unit, but that seemed to have happened only once.
Forks didn't seem to cast anything, not even Rapid Healing on themselves. RK didn't cast Catapult Rune to interrupt Degenerate.

Other spellcasting issues:
Scarab: I've seen Nightmare/Penance affecting only enemy heroes but failing to work on non-hero units even though it may work properly for most of the game.

General AI Troubles:
  • Defiler - Exhaustion doesn't always seem to be casted. Heal and Scroll Teleport can get prematurely interrupted. Cloud may not always be casted.
  • Storm - No idea what's wrong with her, but she just does nothing for a while.
  • Inf - Trying to cast mines, ends up stuttering. Also it's a bad idea to lay mines when she should be running away.
  • Oracle - Casting Zen Shot to run away, ends up stuttering.
  • Eido - Probably trying to cast Seed to run away, ends up stuttering.
  • IS - Seems to interrupt Scroll Teleport.

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