Eve of the Apocalypse: Twilight

EotA: Twilight 1.14f10 Download
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Author:  Scheba [ February 2nd, 2013, 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14f10 Download

I was able to produce a fatal error with infestation on Candleburg, but I'm not sure it had to do with locusts flying off the map. As Candleburg is in the lower right corner of the entire eota map, I placed the stumps on the right side. The locusts were able to wander to the edge of the map at level 1 already, but it took until level 32 for the crash to occur although I had strength equipment to speed things up. This was without any other players, without the talent, and without the bugged -spawnrate command.

And now, the lists I promised. Please note that these are incomplete and might contain errors. For systematically testing skills against ethereal targets, I would need an ally to make them ethereal, and for testing skills when ethereal, an opponent to make my hero ethereal. As I do the test games alone, I can only rely on my memory of what I noticed in a number of normal gamesfor observations about skill interaction with the "ethereal" property.

list of "physical" skills usable while being ethereal:
  • lunge

list of "physical" skills usable (but without any effect) on ethereal targets:
  • attack of opportunity

list of "physical" skills that cannot damage non-ethereal spell immune targets:
  • maw: can devour them, but the corpse projectiles cannot damage them
  • terra smash: neither damages nor slows them
  • ravenous dive: can push them back, but cannot lift them
  • dominating blow (int version): the lightning ring doesn't damage them

list of "magical" skills (like "evocation", "enchantment" etc.) that have an effect on spell immune targets:
  • geyser: throws them into the air, but doesn't damage them
  • zen shot: knocks them back, but doesn't turn them ethereal
  • catapulting sigil
  • imbued equipment: armor reduction works, don't know about the damage bonus; the passive effect is listed as "abjuration" (only visible during skill selection) while the active "hazard slash" is listed as "evocation" (only visible in the skill tooltip once the skill is chosen) and doesn't work on golems (working as expected here)

list of skills without skill type classification:
  • infestation:
    -might be a conjuration because it summons something
    -might be a necromancy because a tree stump can be considered the "corpse" of a tree
  • sentinel: again, might be a conjuration

Other things I noticed:
  • entangling seed is listed as "evocation, conjuration" in the skill tooltip, but only as "conjuration" in the skill selection tooltip; according to -s, evocation damage bonus does apply to it
  • for a melee hero, the dwarven blackguard has a long anti-air attack range (probably 600)
  • the skill selection tooltip for ravenous dive doesn't mention that it's a deathblow (the tooltip of the skill itself does)
  • -s lists both the health and the damage bonus for aberration as "aberration health bonus"
  • sentinels that live long enough to land again after taking off once will lose their strength-based health bonus and go down to the base of 70 health while landed; the bonus is reapplied when the sentinel lifts off again
  • murloc crest witch: different tooltips during hero selection, in-game and during talent selection call her ability either "rogue wave" or "crushing wave", which is it?
  • pandaren fireknight: the tooltip during hero selection lists an ability called "pheonix strike" - is this named after pheonick (as in "pheonick's strike")? :P

Author:  DarnYak [ February 3rd, 2013, 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14f10 Download

Executor wrote:
I noticed that Storm Hammer +4 to +5 upgrade costs 3160 gold, which is higher than it used to be many versions ago. It is a 385 gold increase from the spreadsheet I have for EotA Items.

Fixed. The level 4 price was wrong, so 3->4 was cheaper then intended and 4->5 more expensive then intended.

pandaren fireknight: the tooltip during hero selection lists an ability called "pheonix strike" - is this named after pheonick (as in "pheonick's strike")?

It shoots a pheonix. Totaly unrelated. Although he's free to beleive that if he wants. And I don't see any inconsistency with its naming (its named the same on the skill itself).

dominating blow (int version): the lightning ring doesn't damage them

Int version is magic damage.

If your list is correct there seems to be a failure of physical skills to be hitting spell immune units in general.


Author:  Scheba [ February 3rd, 2013, 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14f10 Download

DarnYak wrote:
It shoots a pheonix.

Except that it shoots a phoenix. The spelling error made me think of Pheonick, that's why I asked.

Author:  watermelon [ February 4th, 2013, 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14f10 Download

Mentioned yesterday:
Some of Rue's auras can be too strong just as a passive, particularly the magic resistance.
Do some stuff with Panda's and Murloc's ult.

Killing with Neph is achieved by using a stunlock and by praying that he has enough mana/his skill cycle doesn't bug. Not a lot of your changes actually made him OP since they didn't really focus on improving his damage output, but it did help Neph stay longer (lower mana costs for Fire Trees and Blastwave). The actual damaging skills I've used to kill were Pain (leveled), Duskslash (leveled), Execute (ult), Blastwave (level 1) / Spellbind, and Shred (level 1).
FM. Ethereal can still do double damage for some strange reason. Streak Level 2+ becomes pretty OP, mostly due to reduced cooldown and that mobility greatly assists a PKer.

Swoop's knockback is still probably too outrageous.
Panda's innate seems to heal a lot for a skill that doesn't take much effort into using.
Mana regen perk felt outclassed by the other, some which could even fulfill it (wealth for pots, teleport for retreat).
Grav's Str+ ability almost seems like a passive since it's basically a good Str bonus even if you don't wait that long. The talent just makes Grav able to have infinite mana.
Have you nerfed Bane's ult so that it doesn't rape buildings so much but is better than what it used to be?
Dwarf's AoE feels very weak.
Glut is very annoying to fight against as melee and somewhat laughable when ranged. In general, melee have a harder time having to kill summons though they don't take as long as ranged to do it.
SB's soul strike doesn't feel worth it compare to Incinerate which you can spam all day. It could receive a boost in range. Besides that, SB feels OP late game when he can wreck buildings by clicking W, along with his Decoy allowing more spam.

Author:  Executor [ February 4th, 2013, 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14f10 Download

Regarding heroes, I'm able to beat insane computers with Harpy and Murlock, which might indicate that they are a bit too strong, but I'm not able to judge how they would do with all human players. Harpy is very versatile for one because she can fly and get gold quickly and easily. I should also mention she is immune to certain abilities such as backstab and mines. I'm thinking that gold is so easy to get that you could counter her weaknesses with equipment, but maybe this is easily countered from some other hero. Murlock's ultimate is one of the strongest I've seen that could kill heroes and units quickly if left uninterrupted (maybe using anti-magic potion). Murlock also has good gold earning potential, but this is all against computers. Human players would be a different matter.

Author:  DarnYak [ February 5th, 2013, 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14f10 Download

Some key changes for the next release:
  • Murloc ult dps cut in half, duration increased by 50%
  • Neph skills reshuffled (can revert if they're bad)
  • Panda heals 30% of missing life, not total
  • Panda ult explosions won't hit heroes in the AoE, so heroes will only take damage from their own unused mana + nerfs to the mana granted and damage ratio
  • AI should (hopefully) stop interrupting casts of non-channeled spells
  • AI should be far more aggressive at purchasing items
  • Changed how physical damage was dealt, MIGHT have unintended results, keep an eye out

Dwarf's AoE feels very weak.

I don't really dissagree but it used to be stronger with bad results. Specificaly, his damage output against heroes was too much when combined with hammer, and it does have a debuff tied to it also. I dropped its cooldown a bit so its more spammable, but I'm very hesitant to buff it too much. New talent might be fun too.


Author:  Scheba [ February 10th, 2013, 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14f10 Download

You were right that the reason why the AI doesn't build towers against a purely human team is simply lack of money. When I started a test game and used cheats to get a bunch of money, the AI immediately started building towers in the first minute of the game.

watermelon wrote:
Dwarf's AoE feels very weak.

In addition, kills made with shadow clap do not have a chance to create desecrated corpses. The tooltip for malignant heart doesn't tell that the kill has to be made with a standard attack, so I would expect it to work with shadow clap.

Other things I noticed:

  • Of the three fonts on Verdant Falls, only the font of the tides is shown as a "shop" type building on the minimap (yellow house symbol) while the other two are shown as grey squares (like gold mines).
  • While obelisk control or the amount of gloomite harvested are visible on the leaderboard, there currently doesn't seem to be a way to see which team has a font battle winning streak for which font; the players have to memorize it.
  • The tooltip for building an abomination tower claims that abominations have 0 health and 0 armor.
  • The barracks tooltips on Candleburg do not list the properties of the units to be spawned (unlike the tooltips for spawn tower construction on the other maps).
  • The glacial tyrant's icy barrier is classified as a conjuration on the skill selection tooltip, but as an abjuration (like the other barrier skills) on the skill tooltip itself. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the difference is that conjurations are dispellable, right?

On a side note, my brother and me came up with a hero idea a few days ago. Are hero suggestions still open? :)

Author:  DarnYak [ February 10th, 2013, 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EotA: Twilight 1.14f10 Download

On a side note, my brother and me came up with a hero idea a few days ago. Are hero suggestions still open?

No but feel free to post it anyway, might be used for eota2.


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